Help- Need new washer- front or top?? recommendations?

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adh0621

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Our 7 year old $700 Maytag started leaking water from the bottom. The repairman said the transmission is gone and took everything with it- $700 to fix, so its totaled.

I was going to go with another top loader with just few features ($500 model range) since I dont consider myself a laundry specialist, but a clerk at best buy said not to go with a top loader b/c I wash the rubber backed bath mats at home (2x/month). My husband says to stop washing them, Im not sure why he thinks this is an option. So is it true that you cannot wash those mats in top loaders? The front loader reviews for anything under $1000 look pretty bad. The clerk suggested an LG- which is still over $1000.

I have a young child so I do a lot of laundry, but rarely use anything but the normal or delicate cycle. Once in a great while I will use extra rinse and sometimes the soak only option. But I am really concerned about spending a ton of money for another "disposable" appliance like the Maytag.

Help and recommendations sought- please!
 
rubber-backed bath mats wash well (i think) if LOOSELY loaded in a TL. if cost is a major consideration by all means get the top loader. assuming you dont give a hoot about water savings, the big advantage of a front loader is the ability to wash large comforters and pillows, and even bigger rugs. if you often wash very large loads, you would like a machine like the whirlpool duet or the equivalent kenmore. hold a TON. most of the current front loaders use electronic controls that i THINK will prove over time to be less reliable than the traditional timers. im afraid the days of washers lasting 20 years are a thing of the past. thats why members of this group love vintage machines. if you bought a 70s/80s maytag in good condition with new belts it could very well last LONGER than a brand new machine. i hear good things about the kenmore (by whirlpool) top loaders also. good luck
 
How much do you wash

If you do alot of laundry get a frontloader. preferbly a kenmore (whirlpool made) if you do at least 5 loads a week it will save you about 4,780 gallons of water. and about 87 bucks in energy. I work sell laundry and trust me once you get one you will never go back. if you need a small one i recomend the HE2 . 3.3 cuft. spins at 1100 rpm uses 170 killwatts a year. great washer at 800 bucks.

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=APPL&pid=02646462000
 
I think the BB salesman had it backwards. Dissentagrating rubber back rugs will clog and front loader's drain pump faster than a top loader.
 
washer recomends

My first choice when we have to but a new washer is going to be Frigidaire or WhiteWestinghouse because they have really come up on their quality and longevity as Electrolux made them put steel gears back in the trans. My dad bought a Frigidaire top load washer back in 2003 and has had nothing but praise for it with no trouble what so ever. He paid around $379 for it a middle of the line machine. either that or go with their new front loader 3.5 cubic inch drum runs around $769 dollars. Or you could go to Sears and get the Frigidaire built machine that is identical but with the Kenmore name on it for like $669 dollars some where close to these prices anyway. Second choice would be a LG.Tromm and yes they are a bit pricey but have heard some really good things about them and have looked at them. They have a really big drum and can hold alot of clothes and yes front loaders are gentle on rubber backed rugs and clothes last longer. So there you have it my picks for washer, or you could go to a repair shop and see if they have any fixed used washers for sale and ask if they have a Norge or Norge product like Montgomery Wards under the Norge/Fedders built machines. These machines are super tough with a 3/4 hp. motor a commercial transmission and a 20lb. capacity it will do a wonderful job at getting clothes clean. With the 202 degree
turbo sweep agitator, with the burpalator feature for colecting lint. Happy Hunting and good luck. DanF.

http://[email protected]
 
PROS -- Front loaders are good for the large capacity and are fun to watch. The high spin speeds and extra rinses are great to get rid of soapy water, and cut down on drying time. The best part I believe is that the clothes retain their colors longer and don't get worn out as quickly when continually washed by a FL.

CONS -- FL's are expensive, and can't adequately wash single large objects like comforters or do very small loads. Also, be warned: the FL's for home use do not use enough water (especially the LG brand) so if you have clothing odors, you will have to pre-treat them with a bar of soap. The cycle times are also about double that of a TL.

My advice would be go with a TL, like the Frigidaire, which is very attractive and moderately priced. Old-fashioned, when it comes to laundry, is best, at least until the manufacturers start using common sense instead of gadgetry with the FL's features.
 
Something

Whether you can't decide between TL and FL, choice "in the middle"
I prompt you to see more about High Efficiency TL washers!
Their efficiency is comparable with a FL one. I speaking about Whirlpool/Kenmore Calypso washer or New Maytag Neptune TL washer.
They both do not have the agitator (although they have a vertical drum with top loading), so they allow you to load bulky items and very large loads, but they consume less water and energy than any traditional TL washer and they are accomplishing with the "energy label"
On this website you wuold have found many people disagree with them, but others agreeing with them too.
Now it's up to you to decide... have a good purchase with them if you have to buy a new washer!
GoodBye
Diomede
Here you are the Kenmore Elite laundry (Calypso washer)

http://www.sears.com/sr/kenmore/eli...gecegjdghldfoo.0&vertical=Kenmore&cat=Laundry
 
I am a TL fan-I pretty much buy BD KN and WP machines-If I were to buy new -Speed Queen tradional TL machine.For me I don't beleive FL machines are worth it.Too expensive,too long a cycle,and reheating the water WASTES energy rather than saving it.I know of a few people that tried Duets and returned them-they went back to their TL machines-Were unhappy with the cleaning and rinsing abilities of the FL machine.Another I know of is unhappy with her FL Maytag Neptune.she even asked me if I wanted to buy it-she has had several service calls on it.
 
Wow- amazing feedback! Quite a range of opinons too.

I think I will stay away from the TL no-agitators. In my research, those seems to be largely disliked.

Frigidaire and kenmores (by whirlpool) TL seems to come up consistantly. You think if I got one of those and only washed 1-2 mats at a time it would last? I dont care about preserving the mats, its more finding a machine thats transmission wont die from them.

Im still suprised bathmats have taken over my washing machine search but I am definately not taking them to a commerical laundrymat as my husband most recently suggested (there is not enough time in the day as it is without hanging out at laundrymats!)

I *could* spring for a FL, but Im now worried about all this talk of not being able to do small loads or the clothes smelling. I have a two year old and they are messy! I dont want to spend my days pretreating his clothes!
 
Euro FL machines

Hi adh0621,

I've got a Euro FL machine, and I dont seem to experience any of the issues, that people find with the large US FL.

I can wash one towel, or rug, without any issues, the machine always spins as it should. It takes me 50 minutes to do a heated cycle to 60deg C for grimey clothes, and the stains and mess always come out.

Some of the european machines can be reprogrammed to provide a high rinse. I never pretreat stains anymore, with gardening clothes, I run them on a 50deg wash with a 1.30 min soak period and everything is always clean.

I was a TL fanatic, untill I got a FL machine and was willing to open my mind and experiement. Now I'll never go back to a TL.

If you do get a FL machine, you'll need to be prepared to relearn some of your washing habits, but once you get the hang of it, you'll be happy with the results.
 
Fisher & Paykel?

Look into Fisher and Paykel. They wash like a normal top loader but they spin at 1010rpm, giving more water extraction. They also run on a DC motor so it uses less electricity than a WP top loader.
 
FL vs. TL

My 2cents

At this point, I personally would buy another front loader. I bought one in 1999 and it is still going strong at my daughter's home. She has 2 kids, husband, and uses it almost daily.

As front loaders go for home use, I don't necessarily agree that bigger is better. I think those in the 3.1 to 3.5 range and with less complex controls are going to prove to be more reliable in the long run. I think that they are more flexible in what you can put in them safely and do a good job cleaning when loaded properly and with proper use of soap, softner, bleach, etc. I would probably look at Frigidaire, Kenmore, Whirlpool, and SpeedQueen.

As top loaders go, they have been around a long time and will be for a little while. Most of them will do a good job for you. From all that I've read posted here, it seems that Frigidaires and Kenmores have the best value for the money. Sears always has something on sale.

In general,
1. consider buying from a long time local dealer, they will price match and tend to be more concerned about their reputation if there is a problem
2. look for the least complex controls - do you really need 101 combinations?
3. TL - look at large capacity, FL - medium cap
4. Don't overload either one

One more thing, there have been enough endorsements here of Tide Coldwater, that I will have to try it. I grew up old school(hot water and bleach) but I like to try new things.

Just some of my thoughts.
Bill...
 
I've been using front-loaders for years. I now own a 2003 FL Frigidaire, and while it uses less water, I have no problems with clothing odors or washing bed comforters or very small loads. I regularly wash rubber-backed rugs and bathmats and I find the backing lasts longer than it used to when I used top-loaders.

I like FL machines because of the water/energy savings, the excellent cleaning results and the fast spin speed, which cuts down on dryer time.

However, they are more expensive. In the end, either a TL or FL washer will get your laundry clean. If you're more comfortable with a TL, go for it. If you go with a Frigidaire TL, go for their top-of-the-line machine with the 'dual-action' agitator. Better cleaning results than their lower models with a plain agitator.

Since we're a curious bunch, let us know what you wind up getting. Happy shopping!
 
Maybe Not All Comments On the Money

People have given some excellent advise. There are a couple of comments that might not be so great. One posters stated:

CONS -- FL's are expensive, and can't adequately wash single large objects like comforters or do very small loads. Also, be warned: the FL's for home use do not use enough water (especially the LG brand) so if you have clothing odors, you will have to pre-treat them with a bar of soap. The cycle times are also about double that of a TL.

Granted, FL are expensive; that can be considered true. "they can't adequately wash single large objects like comforters" There is no truth to this statement. I did have a Frigidaire 3.1 cu. ft. front loader and it did a great job with a full size comforter. I now have the Kitchenaid front loader and it can do a great job with a king size comforter! The truth of the matter is that front loaders do a far better job of washing comforters than top loaders.

Maybe the person was thinking that if you tried to wash one pillow? That might be problem, but to wash one comforter, is not a problem at all!

Regarding the cycle time being double for a FL compared to a top loader, that is a myth! My machine has a Rapid cycle that can do a load in 30 minutes! The normal casual is only 40 minutes! What comes into play is that people are paying in many cases paying $1,000 plus for a front loader. For that they expect the extended cycles. A regular load and normal casual will be perfectly fine and have the clothes washed in 40 minutes. You have some whites you really want white, then you can use a cycle that will take over an hour. You want to santize, well then you are looking close to two hours!

Regarding clothing smells, many front loaders have high level washes and/or rinses available if this is a concern. However, there have been million of front loaders sold that do not offer these functions and most fl owners seem very happy. Go to some other bulletin boards and you will see that LG owners are among the most satisfied owners.

One other issue someone brought up was that the larger front loaders are less reliable than the smaller front loaders. I have not seen any data to suggest that.

Back to the original poster, I think maybe the salesperson was urging you to get a front loader for washing your rubber backed mats in order to avoid damaging your mats as much. The front loader will be much gentler on them than a top loader. If you opt to go with a top loader (and if you are on a budget, I don't blame you), you might want to consider the Speed Queen. They sound like they are the most durable basic top loader you can get.

If you opt to go for a front loader, place the new GE front loader on your list to check out. They have the mega size (3.7) and the heater and tons of cycles too. They list for $900, but you can get one for about $800 on sale.
 
Frontloadfan, where have you seen a front loader with "high level washes and rinses" as you stated? I have yet to see one in the American market. All of them are "energy star," which defeats the purpose of washing clothes. My shirts always smell of underarm unless pretreated.

I disagree about the comforters also. They will easily fit into a FL, but a gallon or 2 of water per fill is not going to clean an entire thick comforter.

How can a comforter be washed when it's rolling around inside with dry patches?

The cycle times are indeed very long. What FL washer is this that you are talking about with all these great features -- because I want one!

Someone else mentioned the Maytags and the Calypsos. I recommend you stay far, far away from those, with all their problems and class-action lawsuits!

Again, TL's are the safest bet in my opinion, if you want your clothes clean and odor-free. I'd rather wear something with stains than something that smells.
 
"Frontloadfan, where have you seen a front loader with "high level washes and rinses" as you stated? I have yet to see one in the American market. All of them are "energy star," which defeats the purpose of washing clothes. My shirts always smell of underarm unless pretreated."

Miele in particular offers higher water levels for certain cycles (like delicates). The original Maytag Neptune series offers considerably higher water levels than later engineered brands.

"I disagree about the comforters also. They will easily fit into a FL, but a gallon or 2 of water per fill is not going to clean an entire thick comforter. "

You misunderstand how a FL uses water. A FL will add more water as the load absorbs it. It is not a fixed amount, however, on average, about 5 gallons is used for the wash part of the cycle. "A gallon or two" is not at all even close to the truth.

"How can a comforter be washed when it's rolling around inside with dry patches?"

It doesn't do that. As I have already stated, the washer will add more water as the load absorbs it. One can usually choose a longer cycle with a difficult to wet item so that it gets thoroughly soaked.

"The cycle times are indeed very long. What FL washer is this that you are talking about with all these great features -- because I want one! "

There are many on the market today.

"Someone else mentioned the Maytags and the Calypsos. I recommend you stay far, far away from those, with all their problems and class-action lawsuits! "

I have a Neptune 7500. It had several major repairs under extended warranty, but since then it's been peforming very well and very reliably. It gets king size comforters spotless.

"Again, TL's are the safest bet in my opinion, if you want your clothes clean and odor-free. I'd rather wear something with stains than something that smells."

My Neptune gets my clothes very clean, cleaner than most people seem to get their clothes with their top loaders. It gets rid of stains and odors. While I treasure vintage top loader washers, it is simply not true that front loaders in general perform less well than top loaders in general.

A real laundry fan appreciates the strengths of each design.
 
In a way its like vacuum cleaners-upright vs canister-An ideal laundry setup would probably have BOTH types of washers.Some of the folks in Applianceville have the space and budget.If the person has a washer at present-if you want to try a new design-I wouldn't let the delivorymen haul away your old machine just yet-you may want to fall back to it in case you are unhappy with the newer one.At some point I would like to consider both types of machines.
 
Someone has a lot of time on their hands to identify and disagree with every single line I wrote. To each one his or her own opinion -- LIGHTEN UP.
 
Top Loader/Front Loader

I have used both machines, and like both. I curently have and LG and like it. I wash heavy down comforters in it and have not experienced and dry spots when the cycle was done. The comforter came out clean and fresh. I also was dirty smelly white socks from my son and they come out very clean.
 
I too have used both TL and FL and they both have their merits. I own an h-axis TL which is essentially the same as a FL for capacity and wash action. I have to say that there are times when I have a shed load of washing to do that I would trade it for a large TL with a short cycle. At the end of the day, the majority of the laundry I do is more to do with freshening up (towels, workshirts etc) They aren't dirty in the sense that they have discernable 'stains'. A TL with short cycle would suit me but I do not have the luxury of space to accomodate one (at the moment). My Mum has had a typical euro FL since 1981. She went from being a 'dyed in the wool' Hoover twin tub user, sceptical of the cleaning ability of an automatic washing machine. She tells me that from the very first use, she was converted. She goes on to say that in 25 years, she has only used the prewash about 3 times, never soaks anything and only pretreats stains like red wine, tomato sauce with a quick blast of Vanish/Shout spray. She has never had cause to complain about rinsing ability and, like me, said that the only time she has ever had to re-rinse a load is when she has overdosed detergent. As for wear and tear on clothes, I am amazed that anyone could have reason to say that a FL is more inclined to cause wear/tear/pilling etc than any other wash action. In my experience, this is simply not the case.

I am constantly perplexed by the number of problems that US users of FL find with these machines. I understand that capacity and cycle times are a major factor with the tendancy to stick with a TL. What I do not understand are the issues with rinsing and cleaning ability, moulding, unpleasant odours being left on washed clothes etc. Is there something missing in your HE detergents? Are the programmes not tested correctly in research and development stages?

With all of the problems that I read about on here, occuring with your FL's, I wouldn't buy one either!! What I don't understand is why you are experiencing them. Are there fundemental design differences in the two machines?

It is a shame that they seem to have gotten off to such a poor start in the USA - here in the UK at least, we have been using them since about the beginning of the 1970's and although they have morphed into the most amazing pieces of equipment compared to their early counterparts, I hope that you guys don't have to wait a similar length of time to appreciate that although they use a fraction of the water and take longer, they are every bit as good at cleaning, rinsing and fabric care and far more energy efficient than a water guzzling large capacity TL.

(I would still trade my machine for a GE Harmony with window in the lid!)
 
USA User Error!!

I suspect the big difference between USA experiences and European has to do with our unfortunate habit of demanding quick and easy. We throw whatever into the machine, pick a random cycle ('normal' sounds nice today), throw some powder in (maybe the right amount, in the right slot, maybe not) and turn it on. Cold water? Warm? Hot? I'm not supposed to worry about that - the machine knows what to do. Extra rinse? Takes too much time. If the 'normal' cycle takes more than 40 minutes, I'll use 'quick wash' for 30 minutes next time. The machine wobbles?? Call service (what's a level???) And then we complain about the performance.
I also have a sneaking suspicion that when you upsize a perfectly well behaved 6kg Euro FL into a 9 or 10kg US behemoth, physics catches up to you (I think someone somewhere did the g-force math for when you increase the diameter of a object spinning at 1000 rpm, and it wasn't pretty).
 
Front Loaders/Top Loaders

Hoovermatic, I agree with you. As I said previously I have and LG fronloader, the one made for the USA and I also have an AEG Bella LAVAMAT from Germany which I bought 14 years ago. This machine also boils as most of the European machines do. I have to say I think both machines do a great job. In fact, I have to say, that for cleaning, rinsing and fabric care, the front loader does it best.
 
front loaders

my best friend bought a whirlpool duet (at my suggestion) and the standard non-matching whirlpool dryer. i suspected the regular standard dryer would work for him and save him money. i was right. he has had the duet for about two years and LOVES it. he has many blankets and comforters and has always had satisfactory results. i noticed the shockingly low water levels myself (i am a classic Maytag fan) at first and had my doubts. there was no need to worry. i once tossed an admittedly dirty pillow in with a load of whites. when i pulled the CLEAN pillow out i was convinced. i have washed HUGE loads; underwear, towels, tshirts, washcloths, socks. good results everytime. "sudsmaster" makes some very good points, esp about the variable water usage. btw, my friend uses REGULAR detergent!! i ADORE the elegance of a center-dial Maytag with its brawny perforated basket and the deliberate and unfailing action provided by the turquoise agitator. I CANNOT deny the front loaders merits.
 
Don't believe everything the clerk at a store will tell you, washing bathmats in your Maytag top-loader had nothing to do with it's premature failure. Maytag has been plagued by these water problems for some time now and it simply boils down to poor quality construction on their part. As long as you don't load more than a couple in a top-loader, you should be just fine. It's best to dry these over the shower rod or on a line as the heat in a dryer will speed up the disintegration of the rubber backing much faster. When you notice pieces of the rubber backing starting to flake off, it's time for a new bathmat.

As far as what new washer to buy, decide what you can afford to spend and buy the best you can get for the money. You really can't go horribly wrong with most of the new Whirlpool products.
 
and don't forget the Staber washing machine. It's a H-axis washer in a top loading format. They are susposed to be very reliable, and all parts are accessable from the front panel. It is designed to be serviced by the end user.
Their website has a video of one in operation and they seem to use a generous amount of water in the wash cycle.

http://www.staber.com
 
The sad truth

I love all washing machines--without exception, especially the relatively new Chinese washers, the Haiers. Unfortunately, they all seem to arrive in America dented, or busted in some manner. I think our brothers in shipping and trucking resent the influx of Chinese goods, fearing that someday we will be their slaves, carting them around in ricshaws. HA HA--wonder how you spell ricshaw!

The other day I stuffed my giant comforter in the agitatorless Haier portable. It did not move around too much. Normaly the same comforter gets washed in my Whirlpoo Top-loader (TL) where it does move around. Both machines get the thing clean. But the Haier cheats . It soaks for 20 minutes, washes for 15, and rinses twice, and spins at hurling speeds like the front loaders. The Whirlpool washes for nine minutes, rinses once, and doesn't extract as much water.

Look, I digress. Sorry. Here's the point. In the In TL-FL Sweepstakes which Consumer Reports runs annually, they never tell the whole truth. TL's use a more powerful HE detergent. They can soak and wash forever; they can heat the water; they rinse three times or four on the extra rinse option; and they can spin like hell. And with all of that they barely beat out most of the TL's. So imagine if we play fairly and equalize the playing field. Turn up your hot water tank, use the HE Tide, leave the lid open so that your load will soak after the wash for an hour, select extra rinse, and your clothes will be on their way to God, creaming any front loader. The only thing the front loader can do better is extract water. Without special detergent and long washes, soaks, multiltle rinsing, it could not equal the performance of TL. Now, the retroactive proof: For years and years, I have sent out my shirts to a commercail front loading launday, maybe a half dozen times each year, just because I like the starch and the professional ironing, or because I'm lazy and in a hurry. THE COLLARS NEVER EVER EVER COME BACK TOTALLY CLEAN--NEVER EVER ONCE !!! I SWEAR TO GOD. BUT.... When the EasySpin or the GE or the Whirlpools, BD or
DD, or the Maytag does the shirts , the collars NEVER EVER EVER ONCE COME OUT DIRTY-- N O T O N E T I M E D I R T Y !!! I SWEAR TO GOD I'm telling the truth. And the truth often hurts. The tests are all rigged to favor the FL's. Think about it long and hard. It will never work. Most Americans hate to stoop to wash; hence all the pedestals for the TL's. It's nor going to happen here. Top loaders are here to stay.
 
Swear Comforters No Problem

Hey Mistervain,

I have the Kitchenaid fl, which is made by whirlpool and shares most of the same functions/cycles as the Kenmore HE and the Whirlpool Duet. I have the option of adding an Autosoak as an option. In other words, before the indicated cycle starts, my machine will run in autosoak mode for a full 30 minutes. Initial action is to fill machine up to the bottom of the glass. It does this in stages, with robusts tumbles. Once the water level has reached to the bottom of the glass in the door, there are pauses of a minute or so between the tumbles. If it is a smaller load, all of the clothing will stay in the water the entire soak time. If the load is larger, the clothes are churned in and out of the water. At the conclusion the 30 minutes the machine will drain but not spin before starting the selected cycle. Autosoak or soak options are two features to look for in a front loader if you are looking for a really wet wash. Some machines include "weter" cycles such as "bulky". If your machine has more than a few cycles, chances are some of the cycles feature significantly more water.

I know the Kenmore version of my machine offers a skin care rinse that features a higher water level. Of course, about all front loaders give you the option of adding an extra rinse. Sure a top loader uses a ton of water to rinse. Front loaders are frugal with the rinse water, but feature 3 or more rinses coupled with high spin speed in between to provide a very effective rinse.

Regarding your comforter issue, I wander if you machine does not function properly? As another poster noted, the machine will strive to fill up to the desingated level. If your machine is working properly, there should be no dry spots in the comforter at all.

To the posting talking about how the Consumer Reports tests are slanted to favor the Front Loader, it should be noted that the factors mentioned (use HE detergent, can heat water, provide 3 or 4 rinses, etc) are all part of what makes the front loader a front loader. The bottom line is that the front loader does clean just as well - if not better - that the top loader and does so using a fraction of the water and energy. In my book that is something to feel good about.

On a side issue, is HE detergent really more potent than regular detergent? I always understood that HE detergent was formulated to minimize suds to avoid oversuddsing in the smallers amount of water used in the FL. In other words, if you used HE detergent in a top loader, would it clean better than regular detergent? Another positive factor, as I understand, is that even though you tend to use less detergent in a front loader compared to a top loader, the ratio of detergent to water is still much greater in the front load wash water compare to the top load wash water.

As to whether the conventional top loader will endure, that is another question. Just like the government stepped in and said you cannot use 5 gallons of water to flush your toilet, the day is coming when they will say you can't use 50 gallons of water to wash a load of clothes! No one likes to be told what they can do or buy, but limited resources may eventually mandate the elimination of the conventional top loader.
 
Hey Mister Swimfan

Such a subtle know-it-all like yourself should know that High Efficiency Detergents are more powerful than their humbler counterparts. Do some experimenting.

What will you do when the Chinese government tells you what to do? Having stooped so long downloading your frontloader, you'll be a prime candidate for ricshawing the authoritarians you so clearly worship.
'
 

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