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STPP

I did a little search for STPP on google and came across this rather favorable bit of information about it. Can any of the folks on here acknowledge or refute what this article says about STPP?

So far it sounds like between STPP, sodium carbonate, borax and a minimal amount of soap, a functional detergent can be made.

I am still looking for more input on quantity of each component as well as additional ingredients that I am not yet aware of.

Also, will substituting the STPP in place of much of the soap take care of the soap scum problem?

ths.gardenweb.com

What is 'STPP' ??

[Information first posted in the Appliances Forum by Rich (spambdamn_rich) on 24 April 2003 - thanks, Rich!]: ------------------------------ "STPP" is a term you may see mentioned in threads here on THS. It stands for Sodium Tripolyphosphate, one of the group of compounds known as comp...
ths.gardenweb.com ths.gardenweb.com
 
Yes and No

You'll still need to have hot or at least warm water rinses to ensure total removal of soap, or at least most of it as the stuff never truly leaves fabrics.

Then there is the fact pure soaps aren't the best stain removers, and indeed can set certain types such as tannin so they are difficult to impossible to remove.

If you are going to use phosphates, yes they make great water softeners when using soap but you will have to add some to at least the first if not perhaps second rinses to ensure total soap removal.
 
I thought that might be

the "reasons" your wife was using, That's why I pressed for a answer!

The "minimal amount of soap" is a rather tricky question! The first thing to consider is why your using a "soap" or "detergent" in the first place!
The answer is that both are surfactants (surface-active agents) They both reduce the surface tension of the water. In other words they make water wetter, and they both soften the water, witch allows for the shifting of soil in the fabrics. (very short answer really) It gets very complicated beyond this point, with water temps for washing, rinsing, P.H, enzymes, water softening agents, optical brighteners, suds suppressants, ect ect but there still needs to be a sufficient amount of "surfactant" involved in the process, be that SOAP or DETERGENTS. This is why manufactures employe highly trained chemists, to produce something that works in general, and in most all water conditions. But I digress..


If she feels that the Borax kills the dust mites (it probably dose) and is apprehensive about the chemicals in standard synthetic "detergents" then don't forget that she might be O.K with Borax added to some "earth friendly" detergent like unscented Ecos, Seventh Generation ect ect. Most here are not fans of either of these, but I think would agree, they would be better than the online "soap recipe"
( I'm just using them as two example's)

The article you've read on the STPP, I think is a fair one, and I believe is accurate, (even though it's from 2003) Others will weigh in on that, I'm sure!

I know it sounds like we are all trying to steer you away from the "soap formula"... and we are LOL, but, as I said before, if your wife insists, then find out how hard your water is in grains ( your water Dept can tell you ) and send me a email, and I'll do the math including the STPP, and without, in attempt to make it work better than the online formula she using.

HTH
 
Not To Point Out The Obvious

But if concerns about cancer are the rationale behind using the formula for homemade laundry "detergent" linked above, you might wish to reconsider.

Of the three soaps recommened the only one with any sort of cleaning power for heavy to moderate laundry soiling is Fels Naptha. Historically that soap was just that, a soap containing Naptha a hydrocarbon produced through a distillation process. This is not something one would want to breathe in dust of (as when grating said soap for your project), nor use if potential cancer causing agents are a worry. If that is the case you'd be better off sticking to modern detergents which also are made from petrol chemicals but at least their value has been proven.

Modern Fels Naptha soap claims it does not contain Naptha,and IIRC the last time Stan and I went a few rounds on the matter it neither contains Stoddard solvent or any other petrol replacement. However to my mind's eye how can a soap still be called "naptha" soap if it doesn't contain that or any other petrol based chemical?
 
Not To Point Out The Obvious

But if concerns about cancer are the rationale behind using the formula for homemade laundry "detergent" linked above, you might wish to reconsider.

Of the three soaps recommened the only one with any sort of cleaning power for heavy to moderate laundry soiling is Fels Naptha. Historically that soap was just that, a soap containing Naptha a hydrocarbon produced through a distillation process. This is not something one would want to breathe in dust of (as when grating said soap for your project), nor use if potential cancer causing agents are a worry. If that is the case you'd be better off sticking to modern detergents which also are made from petrol chemicals but at least their value has been proven.

Modern Fels Naptha soap claims it does not contain Naptha,and IIRC the last time Stan and I went a few rounds on the matter it neither contains Stoddard solvent or any other petrol replacement. However to my mind's eye how can a soap still be called "naptha" soap if it doesn't contain that or any other petrol based chemical?
 
Hello Dear

I remember how put off you were about them calling it Naptha when it no longer contained any! LOL, or any other stoddard solvent!
I agree it's is misleading.
But since it no longer contains that, I dont think there's much of a health concern here!

What the new version dose have is the pentesodium, and or tetrasoduim, witch are chelating agents that help with hard water,
(similar to EDTA) thus preventing, or a least helping to prevent most of the hard water scale/scum.
Not a bad thing, considering Fels Naptha's intended use.
 
SQ Rinse

HI I we dont have SQ's in the Uk but I'm sure its a very good machine from what I have read here, I think you will find the the rinse is so much more effective in FL washers that you will not have problems with the Allergens due to high speed intrim spins and the number of rinses. I use a non bio detergent and my machine is preprogramed in the menu setting s to always carry out an extra rinse, I'm not really sure about the need to connect it up to rinse in warm water the 1st rinse in a FL is warm anyway from the residual heat of the wash on most programs, but there are a lot of people here with a lot more knowledge than I have but I cant see that home made soap would be very good for your machine and may even invalidate the warranty
 
dust mites

Borax does not kill dust mites. If you sprinkle it into carpet, it will kill fleas because it dries them out. Death by dehydration, is what a pest control person told me. NO water involved, at all.

HOT water at 135F and above will kill dust mites.

@julianweber - has your wife considered Bio-Kleen detergent? It is fairly natural, as store-bought detergents go. The Premium version has enzymes, which will help with stain removal.

Also, has she looked at Charlies Soap? Again, a fairly simple formula, but no enzymes or brighteners. My 'whites' got fairly dingy looking after a while with CS.

All Free & Clear has no enzymes (the Oxi version does), but it does have optical brighteners and whites look nice. Shout stain pretreat works well when I use this detergent.

Sears Ultra (powder) free version works great. One Tablespoon of any of these does the job in our Miele.
 
"How can a soap still be called "naptha" soap if

Maybe because the correct spelling is "naphtha?" Just a guess.

The article notes that "naphtha" was an old term for any crude oil, and I believe that detergents are based on oil, so they could also argue that.

Grape Nuts don't have any grapes, either, come to think of it!

Naphtha - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Stan

In response to this...

"The "minimal amount of soap" is a rather tricky question! The first thing to consider is why your using a "soap" or "detergent" in the first place!
The answer is that both are surfactants (surface-active agents) They both reduce the surface tension of the water."

After reading the STPP article, I originally thought that the STPP was a detergent due to the following paragraph.

" These builders function in several ways. They increase the alkalinity of the wash solution, which helps the surfactant activity and also helps to emulsify fats and oils in the soiled fabrics. They also help to "break" clay-types of dirt from the fabrics, and combine with it to help prevent it from redepositing on the fabrics. They also function to combine with hard water mineral ions, thus "softening" the water."

Now that I have read it again I realized that the surfactant is required to allow the water and STPP etc into the fibers so that they can work.

I would love to email you about the formula but I do not have access to your email.

Thanks,
Julian
 
juilian

Now you've got it LOL

You can see my email address if you click on my name in "blue" my profile will come up.

Also in order for me to do the math, I'll need to know the number of gallons of water the machine uses to fill for the wash cycle. Not the number it uses for a complete cycle, just how much go's into the basket for a wash.

Calculation's are made by the number of gallons of water, number of grains hardness per gallons, in your case thats 7-8.

I'm doing this a little under protest LOL. As I still think, any of the earth friendly detergents mentioned above, are probably, better, cheaper easier options!
But I also know "happy wife, happy life too!
So email me that number, and I'll work out the math.

I have read both Yes and No about Borax killing Dust Mites, so you'll have to do a little research to see how YOU feel, and draw you own conclusions. If it dose, than one thing for sure, is that it can't at the current rate of dilution you've been using!
As I mentioned up thread, barley a gram of anything is going in per load now!

If I were you I'd ask Laundress about this, and the use of diluted chlorine bleach, for that problem.
Don't know if that possible with your bedding fabric ect, but she'll know!

HTH
 
Slight Problem

stan 's Profile
email address: stan does not wish to display their email address

Also, I don't have the washer yet. It is supposed to be delivered by the end of the week. I will figure out the water use then.
 
Launderess

Did not mean to suggest there is anything wrong with your spelling, just that Fels might have deliberately misspelled "naphtha" (and there is no doubt that is the correct spelling, according to every dictionary I checked including the OED) in order to be distinctive.

I think I saw some reference to that effect in an old book, which isn't handy right now.

No offense taken I hope! This was just intended as a lighthearted answer to your question. Sorry if it wasn't clear.
 
@chris74:

You said: "...naphtalene is causing cancer as many other petro-chemicals do."

Thanks for the concern, but wasn't it you folks that sent Thalidomide over here in the early 1960s, which is a terotagen?

I mean, we used to line our closets with mothballs made of napthalene, but I don't know of any children born without arms because of mothballs...
 

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