Homemade Laundry Detergent

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mrsalvo

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Hey Everyone!!
It's been a long time since I have posted anything but I found something that I would like input from everyone.
A couple of months ago a fellow coworker brought some homemade lanundry detergent to work for me to try. She swore by it, said it cleaned as well or better than Tide or anything that you could by. Didn't gum up the machine, low sudsing, and best of all was cheap to make and cost about 3 cents a load to use and it lasts and lasts and lasts. I thought, "Yeah, right!" Well, I tried it, really gave it a thorough test and, honestly, I was impressed. She never gave me the receipe, I used it all up and had to switch to store bought brands. Well, on Yahoo today there was a news item about how to make your own. I was suprised at just how many people swore by it and never went back to store bought brands. There are a few variations to the recipe but the standard seems to be:

In a tub or box combine
1 Bar of grated Fels-Naptha (or Zote)
1 cup of Borax
1 cup of Arm And Hammer Washing Soda
Use 1 Tablespoon (or less) for front load HE washers
Use 2 Tablespoons for traditional top loaders

I have a top loader and used 1 Tablespoon only and had great results, all stains removed. I was worried the Borax would be rough on some modern fabrics (mentioned in the article)as well as fading dark colors, my darks did fade some but not any worse than other detergents I've used.
Some of the variations also used Baking Soda as well. Some people measured out less Borax and less Washing Soda. You can make a liquid version as well, I like the dry powder best.
Has anyone else tried this? What porportions did you use? Did your mother or grandmother make their own?
Now all I have to do is get her to tell me the porportions.
 
WB, Salvo. Remember when 'Salvo' was a detergent (tablet) brand? Sure you do.

Fels Naptha is little above the most primitive soap, saponified (alkalanized) fat/oil. When given a job to do, like dislodge other fats/oils, and added to existing calcium carbonate typical in water, tends to deposit wax. See "bathtub ring". I suspect with continued use you could see the gray deposits and feel the wax around the waterline of your TL.

That mixture probably comes in around a pH of 12. Yes it will saponify fats (body soil) but it won't ionically suspend it. It will also attack modern washer parts built to expect protectants (silicates?) in modern detergent.

In a zinc tub with a wooden oar agitator, probably perfectly adequate. But do you really want to go back 70 years in surfactant chemistry?
 
I read that article and I probably won't ever have the patience to make my own, but I won't critcize anyone that does.

I went on to read some of the comments and one said: Fels Naptha? Is it 1957?

I was sooooo tempted to say "Yes. Yes it is."

To me, it will always be 1957. Athough that was 28 years before I was born.

~Tim
 
Maybe 1 tbsp in about a gallon of hot water for presoaking a t-shirt, but there is no way that teeny weeny amount will work on an entire load.

When I do grated Fels Naptha and STPP, it is 1/3 cup of soap with 1 tsp of STPP in my frontloader. When I use a toploader, it is more like between 1/2 to 3/4 cup of soap with a tbsp of STPP. I rinse twice, in warm water, with STPP in the first rinse to help flush out the soap.

Original boxes of Instant Fels or Ivory Flakes indicated 1/2 to 3/4 cups of soap -- with a good layer of suds. If that is how much needed back then, you certainly need that much now.
 
Fels Naptha

At least the vintage bars in my stash is quite more than "primitive" soap.

The stuff contains builders (washing soda) bluing agents, talc, naptha, and so forth. Am here to tell you that stains and soils modern detergents did not touch, come out when using vintage Fels.

As for the "homemade detergent" idea, we had a thread about this not that long ago.

While one loves using soap for certain types of laundry (and I ought to as have enough vintage products stashed away to open a shop), I wouldn't go so far as to make it my daily laundry driver.

The women/persons dreaming up these recipes aren't aware of the chemistry and methods that are beind using soap for wash day. It therefore comes as no surprise that many report back after awhile their wash turns tattle-tale grey and has a whiff about it.

First you need to know what type of soap you are using (high or low titre), then you can go about setting water temperatures etc... All soaps will require very warm, hot or nearly boiling water to not only work properly but rinse cleanly from textiles, and if you don't do things correctly it is just a mess.
 
To go thru all of that would be tedious, although worth a try.....but like they have already said, I wouldn't make it my daily driver......

cost for cost......I would stick with Sears Ultra Plus....was just on sale again....11.99 for 180 loads.......thats 0.066611 cent per load.....plus has all the ingredients for washer protection, and to remove almost all stains, a light scent, low suds and rinses clean......for tough stains, I may add borax, washing soda, or color safe bleach....but it hard to believe this little scoop does a whole load, but it does.....
 
Thank-you all for your replies. I wasn't aware that there had been a previous thread about it before mine, I will considerately let this one die a noble death. Everyone brought up a good point that I hadn't thought about before. I'm not a chemist, so I didn't realize the pH balance.
Yogitunes, I ruined one washer on Sears soap and I'm not going down that road again. It is good soap, if you have good water.
Thanks again for all the input. Excuse me now, I'll crawl back under my rock.
 
...under a rock
==========================

Naww, don't do that. It was thought provoking.

But with central Texas water, I think you'd be disappointed in the long run. Y'all on the river or the aquifer? I had well water in northern Travis that would glom up a showerhead in a few months and curdle if you boiled it long. The city annexed us and fed us good ole Colorado water. Which was better but still had to drop faucet aerators in boiling vinegar twice a year.
 
@mrsalvo

One wasn't lecturing in the least, and do hope my tone was not taken as such. Please do not go into hiding (under a rock or otherwise) on my account. *LOL*

Was just pointing out that laundering with soap is more than whipping up a batch of witches brew at home. The knowledge and skills for doing such have long died out of common use as housewives and anyone else who does laundry ditched pure soaps in favour of detergents.

Yes, using pure soaps will get one's laundry clean the first times or two, but then again simply dunking them in water will as well. What matters is the long term care of garments.

I collect vintage linens and you have no idea how much work it is to remove ages of soap residue from those textiles. Even with phosphates and lots of soaking in warm or hot water the process is a trial.
 
Home made laundry "Soap"

Hi Barry, Yes we did have a thread about before, and it was me that posted it! LOL Titled "Fels Naptha" this was about 3 months ago, so don't feel about posting! There were varied responses to it, some good, some not,
What I do remember, that most were in agreement about, was that" IF" you use it, it required a heavier dose than what was recommended in the online recipes. OTOH if a Tbls works for you, then "if it aint broke don't fix it"
The online recipes varied also as how much soap, to how much washing soda ect ect. If you decide to try the dry formula, I would recommend that you at least dissolve it in a jar of hot water just before pouring into an already filling. or finish filling washer.
It was amazing, and "thought provoking" that there are so many people that this works for?
I personally think the reason it dose work, for some is the borax and washing soda, not so much modern Fels, that just makes it smell nice. Another way to tell if you have enough, is if you have a TL, you can feel if there is a slight slip to the water.
Best to all. Stan
 
I've used soap before in my laundry....

....and I've had a fair amount of success with it. I also have some of the softest water around. Except for the rare occasions when we switch to the well fields, my water is less than half a grain of hardness per gallon. Soap rinses well in those conditions, especially with a little bit of vinegar "sour." Fabrics are worn out long before any kind of residue causes dinginess, stickienss, or any kind of smell.

If I had water like I did in the midwest, or like I did when I lived in the Rocky Mountain states, I wouldn't do it. It's too easy to get scum forming with soap. You have to be so careful, soften the water before adding the soap or it will happen.

Like Stan said, you need that "slippery" feel to keep things suspended in the water. (It's difficult to get a good layer of suds in a modern top loader...the agitator designs are different than the waterfall lint filter days). Adding the water softener of your choice BEFORE soap is the best bet. A little STPP in the first rinse is also a good idea for hard water conditions.

If you want to try it, there are several Google books from early last century that outline proper laundering procedures of the day. I took my tips from home economists of the late 1800s and early 1900s (when they had nothing but soap), and their advice still gives beautiful results....especially on cotton and wool fabrics. :)
 
Okay, I won't pull my rock over my head and hide. I didn't take anything as a lecture.
The water is out of the Edwards Aquifer, it's some of the hardest water I've ever come across. It's rough on applicances, residue builds up over time. One day I'm going to install a water softner system, until then I will just have to cope. Thank heaven for Lime-Away.
I'm still concerned over the long term in using the homemade brand.
I'll be sticking with Tide, HEB brand, or Fab as my main daily drivers.

Thanks again so much.
Barry
 
Just So You Know

Many fine laundries in Europe, especially France still consider soap (mainly Savon de Marsielle) far better than modern detergents, especially for cleaning fine linen.

Indeed one can still find pure soap flakes sold in French supermarkets under the "Le Chat" and other brand names. V-Zug, the ne plus ultra washing machine brand has a special soap cycle on some of their front loaders.
 
...are several Google books from early last century that out

Why one would ever want to go back to last century cleaning?!
Give me "proper" automatic washing everyday please. No washing machine watching should be necessary if not separating colours and setting the cycle.

On the other hand "many fine laundries in Europe, especially France still consider soap..." is a really false statement.

My family runs a commercial laundry that other conventional dry cleaning is specialized in courtains, fine linens, table spreads, knits and so on. I can tell you that pure, real soap is never used. There are millions of enzyme based, oxigen based products that are used for cleaning and real soap, when present is just one of the many cleaning agents along modern surfactants.

On the domestic market on the other hand, soap flakes are still sold for delicates and fine stuff, the same stuff that every fall and spring people bring to us complaining of how bad they are...

Have my word, don't trust "real" soap in 2011 unless you're using it for your sensible but not dry skin!

Oh and again "Le Chat" is the name that Henkel uses in France for the "Persil" line so, unless one is getting the grated soap flakes box or the soap bar, is getting no "real" soap at all but French flavor German detergent!
 
"Why one would ever want to go back to last century clea

Mine was sheer curiosity....to see how well people did with primitive products a few generations ago. So, I made some lye soap at home, got some old time laundry products, and gave it a try. :)

Truth is, you CAN do a beautiful wash with soap....but modern detergents make it so very much easier.
 
@dj-gabriele

Can assure you Henkel markets "Le Chat" Paillettes au savon de Marsielle up and down the breath of France. The stuff is *NOT* a detergent but flaked soap with water softener and glycerin added. The link below gives product information.

Can also assure you regardless of how commercial laundries operate in Italy, there are still more than handful of persons who care for fine linen in France that use soap, more to the point Savon de Marsielle. Just as there are housewives and private laundresses that still swear by the same on wash day. You can find various formulas all over French websites on how to make liquid or gel lessives from flaked or grated soap.

Most French love SdeM like Americans do chlorine bleach for laundry day. Also considering unscented laundry proudcts are rare in that country (even those marked "sensitive" still pack a powerful perfume whiff), many choose a pure soap at least for bed and other lightly soiled linen in order to avoid allergic reactions to fragrance.

http://www.telemarket.fr/dynv6/prod...rgenique-a-la-Glycerine-25-Lavages-1-kg.shtml
 
@launderess

sorry if it wasn't clear enough but I wrote "UNLESS one is getting the grated soap flakes box or the soap bar, is getting no "real" soap at all but French flavor German detergent!", exactly the thing you linked to me! :)

I think I'd die without unscented laundry stuff! I rinse everything till it has no odour left and have my father send me industrial fabric softener that has almost no scent at all.
 
@stan

Yup, that's my opinion!
I had to use natural soap a few times and while it cleaned skin as well as surfactant based detergent, it always left my skin very dry. And I'm not talking about of the 1€ a bar soap, I'm talking about expensive pharmacy quality stuff at 15€ per 150ml! (That's 100 € per litre of soap!)
 
It's always a bad idea to start experimenting with making your own laundry detergent when you don't know anything about your water chemistry or how the different ingredients will interact with your water. If you have hard or medium hard water, your homemade laundry detergent will quickly cause soap scum build-up inside your machine. When it stinks like mildew in a month, you'll know why.
 
Lay perspective, but Tide is only as complex as it is in order to work across a spectrum of water chemistry. There's not only pH and stuff like iron that might precipitate disastrously, but ionic load which I don't even know how to quantify. Just that it can hose chemical formulas so formulators deionize their own water so they know where they're starting from.
 
Soap and Laundry "Sours"

Just wanted to clear something up one sees posted else where about the use of laundry sours, especially when using pure soap.

The purpose of creating a slightly acidic final rinse bath is to neutralise any remaining alkaline substances left from detergents and or soaps in textiles. This serves many purposes but the main effect is that items are less likely to irritate skin. The other reason is to remove sodium bicarbonate (a natural occurance of using any alkaline substance for washing, but especially washing soda), from textiles before ironing and or tumble drying. The application of heat in any form will cause bicarbonate laden textiles to turn shades of brown, tan or slightly yellow.

When it comes to the use of pure soaps (which by the way are always alkaline in water, whereas man-made detergents can be formulated to be near or neutral to slightly acidic), the purpose of using a sour rinse is *not* to pull out remaining soap. That is the function of proper rinsing.

When acidic substances meet textiles with any soap residue, the later will convert into fatty acids (all soaps are made from a combination of oils/fats/grease etc), which not only leads to grey and dingy laundry, sooner or later things will get a whiff about them from the residue going rancid.

The above is why proper laundering with soap includes all those rinses in the proper water temperature (hot or warm) suited to the properties. Indeed amoung commercial laundries it is known and preferred to bring down the pH from laundering by rinsing as opposed to using chemicals. However depending upon what chemcials were used for the wash baths this could take quite allot of water which costs money. If that water must be heated the cost goes up further still.

Finally it is the pH level of the acidic chemical used for the sour bath and not the amount that will determine the final level of the bath.

If using common white household vinegar for instance, depending upon the volume of water used once a certain acidic pH level is reached adding more will not increase. To do that you'd have to go with a stronger acidic substance. Laundries use litmus papers to test the bath for indication of proper final pH, or items coming from the tubs/machines can be tested the same way.

Commcercial laundries then and now would often purchase acetic (glacial), formic and or other acids to use for sour baths at full strength, then dilute with water to form a stock solution.

The case against using laundry sours is that certain textiles can be harmed by even weak acids over time. This damage can be compounded when said items are exposed to the high heat of tumble dryers and or ironing.

For all of the above and more reasons, many laundries are moving to pH neutral laundry detergents, or at least those only slightly alkaline. This explains the increase in liquid detergent use. If alkaline substances aren't used for washing, there is no need to add sour rinsing baths. Removing this step not only saves laundries water, but time as well.
 
In my last house I had a reverse osmosis system in the kitchen. To keep the tank water fresh I would drain it to storage regularly then use the storage as final rinse water or to rinse the spotty mineral water off my car.

Let's face it, if we could all afford to do laundry in Evian, would be so much simpler. Softener gets you halfway there but it doesn't remove salts, it only substitutes them with less-obnoxious ones than calcium carbonate.
 
mrsalvo

LOL hope your watching your thread! See all the "thought provoking ideas" so here is another...Detergent is a synonym for Soap! Anyone ever think about that?
 
Luv ya mate, you're only ~200 miles south of me and formerly only 25.

Soap and detergent are interchangeable terms among the unknowledgeable. Today, even what you think is soap like bath bars are actually detergents. Sodium-hoozywhatsis-hexa-whattheflarg. Surely you read the labels. (Yes I do, and don't call me shirly).

When I went to invent my skin lotion in 1994, I knew very little about surfactants (I have bad skin, mmmK?). Since then I have become much more aware of the dynamics of surfactant chemistry. Enough so to recognize how much of it is WAY over my head. I can make oil and water mix under specific conditions. Which is the essence of laundry. But the trick is to make oil and water mix across a SPECTRUM of conditions. That's why Tide is as complicated as it is.
 
arbilab

Luv ya too..LOL. Your preaching to the choir! I have been making soaps for sometime now, and soaps made for specific purposes! and I continue to learn more, and more about it's chemistry. It's funny to me, that most people do think the Dove or Irish Spring are real soaps!
The subject of "soap? on AWF has always been touchy, and I have always found it interesting that we talk a lot about the many different characteristics of laundry detergents here, how they clean, dose it have enzymes, "Oh I found some with phosphates", someone's butt hurt because they changed the formula ect ect. With the MANY varied differences there are in detergent formulas, equally there is with soaps!! but not too many think of it this way! Most just think "it's just soap and its going to leave a greasy residue" ect
I think the reason for this is because the concept of a "NEAT" soap ( purified no 0% fat, no glycerine ) is beyond most peoples experience, in other words they have never used it, and can't buy it in the store, don't know what it means! What they can buy, is what you have pointed out, "bath bars". Even modern Fels Naptha dose not contain it's birth ingredients, and now has too much unreacted fat left in the bar, and no Naptha, to be the effective bar it once was.
I certainly don't advocate the use of soap for laundry, only because, as Laundress has well pointed out, there is a trick to get soap to work, that most are not going to fool with these days.
Would love to hear more about your 1994 water an oil emulsion invention!
Best to All
Stan
 
Technically it's an oil-in-water emulsion, though not sure I could explain the distinction properly. Other than O-I-W tends toward lotion and W-I-O tends toward cream. The product is a reverse engineer of a discontinued late-1940s formula I'd become addicted to. So I had a LOM but only coarse proportions. Fiddled with it for months making glom until a more prescient friend pointed out triethanolamine has 3 hooks and stearic acid has one, then a little math and I had the primary surfactant. Boosted with diammonium phosphate (yes--gasp--phosphate) and co-emulsified with propylene glycol. The following year and a half was balancing the surfactant with the oil phase including a GOB of lanolin so it was neither sticky (too much surfactant) or oily (too much... you know). A manufacturing chemist did the scaleup and fine balancing, and of course had the proper equipment to nebulize the oil which I couldn't do in the kitchen. I gave the 4 test batches to charity. Fun project. I didn't set out to take over the world, then at one point thought I might but that point didn't last long. Selling cosmeceuticals is 10% chemistry and 90% marketing. I could afford the chemistry part.
 
Gawd, I loved George. Knew his shxt inside out upside down and an affable chap on top of that. But his company, Lone Star Laboratories, no longer exists. I hope he found a suitable home. Surely he did.

I've got a double-lifetime supply sitting in my storeroom. It's still stable 16 years later. The original formula I rev-eng'd wouldn't last that long. It went rancid in less than 5 years. I'd love to take credit for that but it most probably belongs to George. My kitchen version didn't go rancid but it did lose its viscosity in less than a week. That nebulization thing. Plus he added carbomer 940 to the formula I sent him. I'd never heard of that.

Quite the adventure.
 

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