Hot Water Heater Issue

[mrb627]

Well, I was out walking the dog this morning and upon coming up the driveway, I noticed the hi pressure drain line from my water heater had developed a slow drip causing a tub of ice to be formed.

After spewing some ugly language, I thought about what I needed to do first. So, I checked the water heater in the garage and there was no indication of a leak inside the unit. Next, I thought maybe my water heater temperature is set too hot and as I have never officially checked the temperature at the kitchen sink, I remembered that the fancy digital meter I bought last summer had a thermostatic probe.

I got the meter out of the tool chest and went inside to check the temp. After running the water at the kitchen sink, the temperture topped out at 126 degrees. This doesn't seem too hot to me, but it made me wonder if the low flow bubbler on the faucet was so low flow that we were losing a substantial amount of heat through the concrete slab.

I can most certainly lower the water temperature on the heater to the so called efficient setting in the blink of an eye. The only issue would be the temperature of the hot water for showers in the morning. So, I went ahead and did just that. If anything, it might make the dishwasher run a bit longer, but I can live with that.

I waited about half and hour and then took the faucet handle off in the master bathroom shower. As expected, there was plenty of room to adjust the anit-scald setting to a hotter position. I adjusted it two notches in the hotter direction. I will check the hot water in the shower in a couple of hours to be sure I think it is hot enough to do the job. If not, I will move the shower handle another notch or two. I think I have three notches left to the hottest position.

Hopefully, this will lower the pressure in the water heater enough to prevent a blowout. At least until the Spring when I can have the heater replaced. It is over 11 years old and not the top notch model. Several neighbors have had theirs burst, so I was planning on replacing it anyway. Better to be proactive in this situation.

Sad that life expectancy isn't what it should be.

 

[tomturbomatic]

It is probably more a case of the temperature/pressure safety valve going bad and allowing the leak. I have experienced that, but it has been my experience with my own water heaters and those in my parents' houses that the comonents are sort of geared to last pretty close to the amount of time for which the tank is warrantied. If something like a thermostat or pilot thermocouple goes, replacing it is not going to buy you a great deal of time beyond the tank's predicted date of death with most of them. The new water heaters with all of the sophisticated safety and efficiency components might be different.

 

[sudsmaster]

On my water heater, the safety valve also developed a slight leak. And when I opened it for testing, it wouldn't close completely and the leak became a definite trickle.

Upon draining the tank and removing the valve, I discovered that the valve was encrusted with mineral deposits. A new valve cost something like $10, and fixed the problem immediately.

I'd strongly recommend getting a new valve (you might want to have a spare anyway) shutting off the heater, draining the tank below the level of the valve, and removing the bad valve. You'll probably have to remove the drain pipe first. Then simply use teflon tape or pipe dope on the threads of the new valve, and install it, along with any associated piping. This is one of the more simple tasks one can do with a water heater but it's very important. An encrusted valve can not only leak, but it can also refuse to release pressure when needed. The results of that could be explosive.

 

[autowasherfreak]

Our water heater has been doing the same thing. I'm going to replace the valve either Monday or Tuesday when I get home from work.

 

[mrb627]

Thermal Expansion Valve

Yes, I could get the valve and replace it. I have already investigated that option. Unfortunately for me, the valve that is there now has had the relief tubing soldered in position. It would involve more than just getting the valve out. I would need to borrow a torch from someone or at least prepare to compression fitting the exhaust line back to the new valve. And with the age of the water heater, I would rather risk a month or two and get the complete system replaced. For some reason, the builder neglected to install a thermal expansion tank above this heater which could be the source of my troubles from the git go.

Malcolm

 

[sudsmaster]

As I understand it, a thermal expansion tank is needed if there is an anti-flowback valve in the main water supply to the home. Otherwise, perhaps not needed.

If you have any doubt about the valve, do a test. Clear the ice from the outlet tube, and the lift the safety lever. Hot water should flow out, and then stop when you release the lever. If the water won't flow (very bad), or won't stop (not good), you need a new valve. Now, not in 2 months.

 

[sudsmaster]

PS-Propane torches are relatively cheap. I like the kind that has an automatic spark, but a simple torch would do the trick. And sweating the tubing back on isn't as difficult as it might seem.

 

[mark_wpduet]

I have my hot water heater set to 140 because I've heard any lower than that can be a breeding ground for bacteria and cause lung issues, even though the default setting is 120.....May not be true but I'm just paranoid.

 

[sudsmaster]

I doubt very much that 120F water will be a breeding ground for anything.

If it was, what about all the bacteria that would be breeding in the cold water pipes???

 

[mysteryclock]

Bacteria!

Well the cold water bacteria issue is handled by all that nasty-smelling chlorine they add. It may be smelly but it is WAY better than the stuff it kills! For the hot water, I ~think~ the chlorine may boil off / desaturate (???) at hotter temperatures, but the temps themselves protect you. I posted this over @ Gardenweb a while back:

Turning it down too low can lead to the growth of Legionella pneumophila, the bug behind Legionnaires Disease. The article below gives all the details, but here's the summary:

* 70 to 80 °C (158 to 176 °F): Disinfection range
* At 66 °C (151 °F): Legionellae die within 2 minutes
* At 60 °C (140 °F): Legionellae die within 32 minutes
* At 55 °C (131 °F): Legionellae die within 5 to 6 hours
* Above 50 °C (122 °F): They can survive but do not multiply
* 35 to 46 °C (95 to 115 °F): Ideal growth range
* 20 to 50 °C (68 to 122 °F): Legionellae growth range
* Below 20 °C (68 °F): Legionellae can survive but are dormant

Loading…

www.treehugger.com

 

[joelippard]

I just dealt with this

and I can say that it took me 20 minutes start to finish on my gas water heater. Mine is in the basement and didn't have the tubing off the TP valve. Those TP valves are nothing to mess with, if some other part of the heater malfunctions, ka-boom! I recently raised mine from the standard 130 all the way to maximum at 160 in order to properly scald the underclothes and only noticed a $3 a month difference in the gas bill. As a footnote, those valves should be tested at least yearly. I tested mine and that's when the drip started. When I took it out I was shocked at all the deposits built up inside of the valve, definetly trouble waiting to happen.

 

[sudsmaster]

The chlorine, either as chlorine gas or chloramine, would not be expected to evaporate inside a hot water heater tank.

And I have seen some information that bacterial/fungal growth can be a concern in cold water pipes. Specifically, in the dead air space of anti-hammer voids left above cold water connections at sinks etc. The theory is that the air pocket allows oxygen to nourish whatever organisms might like to grow in that space. However all the links where I've seen such information are on sites of companies that sell airless anti-hammer devices for that application. I suppose a hot water pipe might also be a problem, but I think the heat would tend to kill off anything of concern. And I'm not too concerned about the cold water pipes either.

 

[volvoguy87]

Oxygen in anti-hammer devices.

Since the air chamber is sealed, there is a finite amount of oxygen available. If there is any bacteria that uses oxygen, it would cease to flourish once that supply of oxygen is depleted. The question is, how much bacteria could this oxygen support, and how long would it take to deplete the oxygen in the anti-hammer air chamber?

A T&P valve replacement is fast, cheap, and easy. It's far cheaper than a new water heater. I replaced our T&P valve a year ago and the water heater is running fine with no problems. If you don't want to sweat the T&P valve's drain pipe, I have seen new drain pipes made for just that use. Also, most of the time, the drain pipe is connected to the T&P valve by a threaded connection. You can just remove the old pipe from the old valve and reuse it on the new one.

To do all this work, you will need a good sturdy wrench and some plumber's pipe thread dope or Teflon thread tape. Also, turn off the water heater while you're doing the work, turn off the supply line (the pipe to the water with the valve) and drain the water heater below the level of the T&P valve using the drain cock near the bottom of the water heater. The whole job might take 30 minutes.

Good luck,
Dave

 

[danemodsandy]

Whatever You Decide:

Keep an eye on the outlet, where the drain line exits the house.

About 20 years ago, I had a house in Morningside, that was on a very steep lot - you know the kind, one storey at the front, two at the back. We very seldom went to the back, because it was extremely steep, also rocky and with brambles, completely unusable for anything. It was like living on the edge of a cliff.

The water-heater valve malfunctioned, sticking open. Since we hardly ever went where the drain line was, the first clue we had was a $300 gas bill, in summer. The water heater had been heating continuously, because water was flowing out as it was flowing in. Our handyman found the trouble very quickly; the drain line was hot, and when we investigated out back, we had some very happy brambles; they'd grown like mad with all the watering.

All this over a valve that had stuck. You'd better believe the new valve got checked religiously after that. Whenever I was in the basement, I looked at the valve handle to make sure it hadn't opened, and also felt the drain line to make sure it was cold.

Expensive lesson!

 

[mattl]

Replace the TPV...

I keep mine at about 160 degrees too. And it stays hot because the humidifier is connected to it. My blower runs continuously and the Humidifier is in the cold return, cold water would not cut it.

Just replace the TPV. If you don't want to bother soldering anything there are options. My local HD has tubes designed to screw into the valve and you can use Shark Bite fittings too. Perhaps your local hardware store would solder a short piece of pipe on for you and then just Shark Bite it.

 

[mrb627]

Georgia Temps

Temperatures outside should be returning to normal over the next 2 days. Once the ice has melted, I will put a pail underneath the outlet to see how much water is escaping, if any.

Malcolm

 

[rayjay]

Malcolm. I would not wait too much longer. I had this problem, and it only got worse. You are lucky to get 11 years, I usually only get 7 or less. I buy a top rated heater like an A.O SMith, or State. The State heater with the 10 year warranty leaked in 2 1/2 years. I just do not understand it. I do have mechanically softened water which should help. I now have a Rheem for a few years now and like it.

 

[awooff]

Too soft of water will cause degrading of plumbing fixtures, including water heaters!

 

[oldhouseman]

Do it now.....

go tankless. My summer gas bill is $15.00 a month. I will never have another kind of water heater.