Hot Water Heater Issue

[toggleswitch2]

Too hard water and calcium buildup, and your tankless HWH may not be triggered properly to heat the water.

I'm still liking old-fashioned direct-fired gas storage-type HWH-ers. No electrcity, no electronics and no complicated parts.

Her in the north where we need heat most months the heat losses of a storage-type HWH simply heat the room and cause the heating systems to work less. No great big deal.

 

[mattl]

With care I get 18-20+ years out of my gas tanks. Draining and new anode rod does the trick...

 

[mrb627]

Progress.

Well, I got home last night and the ice had melted. So, I put an empty glass jar underneath the outlet to catch any drips. This morning, the jar was empty. If it is empty when I get home this afternoon, I will adjust the thermostat on up a bit. I prefer a hot shower in the winter instead of a warm one. Nobody wants to step out of the shower and shiver before they can get dried off, right.

Someone at work mentioned that the thermostat can be swinging and causing the water to get too hot blowing the valve. It is possible as I have noticed in the past that sometimes the water temp would vary. Maybe the temp probe has some buildup on it causing it to be less sensitive.

I might attempt to drain it the weekend. It has never been done before.

Malcolm

 

[sudsmaster]

Before you drain it, turn off the water heater. Then lift the lever of the release valve. Observe if any water flows out of the tube. If no water, the valve is bad and needs to be replaced immediately. Then release the lever. Observe if the water flow has stopped. If not, the valve should also be replaced.

Since you suspect the thermostat is acting up, all the more reason to make absolutely sure the release valve is functional. If the thermostat dies, and leaves the heat on, and the valve doesn't release the pressure, then the water tank can become a pressurized tank of superheated steam. Then it can explode. I've read it can be like a rocket.

 

[mrb627]

Saga Continues...

Well, I bought a replacement valve this weekend and replaced it this afternoon. As luck would have it, the new valve exhibits the same behavior as the old. As I finished the repair, I stood out in the garage watching and waiting as the water heater came back up to temperature. Before long, I heard a dripping. I had placed a bucket under the outlet tube and water was slowly dripping from the valve. Without hesitation, I grabbed my pressure gauge and went out back to the faucet. Sure enough, the pressure was exceeding 145 lbs. So, the valve replacement was a fruitless task. At least I know the old one was good.

I guess my next step will be the hiring of a plumber to install an expansion tank.

Malcolm

 

[appnut]

Ugh!! When it rains it pours!!!!!

 

[sudsmaster]

You might be able to do the expansion tank yourself...

But a professional plumber might also check to see if any other valves in the cold water supply system are working properly.

Water Heaters - Expansion Tanks

Water heaters can be fitted with expansion tanks to capture expanded water and prevent water heater malfunction. Sizing water heater expansion tanks is easy for your hot water heater, and adding a hot water expansion tank can be done within 30 minutes.

www.askthebuilder.com

 

[mrb627]

Luck?

The way my luck has been running, I shudder to think of cutting into a 3/4" water line.

Malcolm

 

[sudsmaster]

In that case, call a plumber. Have him check it all out and install the exp tank as needed.

If the water heater is gas-fired, I've read that if not relieved, the extra pressure could collapse the exhaust duct inside the tank, leading to carbon monoxide production inside the room where the water heater resides. Fortunately your safety valve is working to release the excess pressure but of course who knows for how long and why waste heat and water?

 

[mrb627]

Water Heater Quotes

Well, I have gotten a few quotes for replacing my water heater. They range from 650 to 1175. The middle quote is for 775. I think it is the winner. It is for a A.O. Smith 40 gallon Natural Gas unit which is rated very well. The job includes all plumbing and gas modifications required, plus the thermal expansion tank. I spoke briefly about the installation of a recirculating system which as a standalone job runs about 800. That price would be reduced if I combined it with the water heater changeout.

The company came highly recommended from Service Master dot com. In speaking with the rep on the phone, I found that this is a husband and wife team that have been in business together since 1986. I spoke with the misses of the team. I could tell in the first couple of sentences that she knew what she was talking about and the job was theirs before I hung up the phone.

Now, I just need to coordinate the replacement of the heater with the repair of my dryer so I'll only have to take one day off from work. I'll feel better when this is all said and done.

Malcolm

 

[volvoguy87]

Efficiency.

Read up on the AO Smith water heaters they stock. You want one with a rapid recovery time (how fast it heats water) and of course how efficient it is. If you get one that is of high enough efficiency, you will qualify for a 30% tax credit. Also, see if the new water heater uses electricity for gas ignition or for a blower. The more efficient ones do, but if you loose power, you loose your hot water. On our older gas water heater, there is a standing pilot which is unaffected by power failures, but is less efficient.

We saved $20.00 per month on our water heater's gas bill (our water heater is the only thing on the basement gas meter). We did this by insulating all the hot water pipes we could get to. We insulated the pipes in the basement, the ceiling of the 1st floor (it collapsed when I reconnected the plumbing for the 2nd and 3rd floors due to ice cracks, it was not fun), the wall of the 2nd floor, and the ceiling of the 3rd floor. Copper is an excellent heat conductor and insulating the pipes made the water noticeably hotter at the tap and saved us $20.00 a month on gas. I can't complain.

Pipe insulation is about $1.00 per 6 feet. We used the pre-slit polystyrene type with no adhesive. Just cut to length with scissors and slip it on the pipe. It reduces noise too. It's fast easy, and cheap!

Also, make sure they use 3/4 inch pipe. 1/2 inch is cheaper, but is restrictive and reduces flow if it's used for a main line. 1/2 inch is suitable for branch service (like supplying individual faucets and fixtures, but not more than 1 thing at a time). Even if your house is plumbed wrong with 1/2, use 3/4 and it's that much less that you'll have to replace later.

Good luck,
Dave

 

[sudsmaster]

Congrats on finding a good plumbing outfit!

I insulated the hot water pipes under the house about seven years ago, and it did make a difference. Not so much in the gas bill, but in the ability of the pipes to retain heat in the water during periodic use.

I have noticed there are two different types of pipe insulation. The cheaper stuff - which is mostly what I used - seems to be a kind of foamed polyethylene. It's ok. The other stuff, which costs two to three times as much, looks like foamed EPDM rubber. It's a bit thicker and probably insulates better as well. In either case, whenever I go to my local Home Depots, they are OUT of the size I would need ;-(. Most of the piping here is 1/2" steel, which takes the same size insulation as 3/4" copper. There is some copper under the house, such as serving the master bath addition. In any case, at some point I'm going to replace all the steel with copper (except to one or two hard to get to locations) and then re-insulate with the better stuff. I already bought nearly all the copper pipe (3/4 for the main runs and 1/2 for the faucets); it's just a matter of getting into better shape to do all the crawling, and practicing my pipe sweating as well. I'm also thinking of adding more laundry faucet drops - such as in the enclosed patio and maybe even out on the covered patio. And also upgrade the workshop water connection from a garden hose to real pipe ;-). I'll probably replace the 30 year old gas fired water heater at the same time. It's been working fine and I replaced the original anode rod about five years ago, but I suppose it will fail sooner or later. It does bump a bit from sediment that's collected at the bottom; flushing it doesn't dislodge it.

 

[autowasherfreak]

My problem with the pressure valve left as quickly as it came. I think it has something to do with the temperature of the basement. When it gets really cold down there it will leak, usually when it is below zero outside, now that it has warmed up it doesn't leak.

 

[mrb627]

Tax Credit

Well, I have already qualified for the tax credit so that is out of the question.

As for efficiency, anything out there is more efficient than what I have now.

Malcolm

 

[oldhouseman]

You need

a tankless water heater! Never run out of hot water and don't pay for a holding tank. In the summer my gas bill for the water heater runs about $15.00 a month. So far this winter the highest gas bill I have is $81.00 and that includes the tankless waterheater and 5 gas log sets in the fireplaces. Since the is 213 years old I only heat the rooms I have in use but over the holidays I kept the gas logs in the fireplaces going quiet a bit. The tankless heater has more than paid for itself. You really should check out the option of a tankless!

Greg in Sparta

 

[mattl]

Tankless is fine if you don't want really hot water, check the temp rise and your incoming water temp. Also if you need volume you need a large gas line. I looked into it, but for me it would not work out. I like my water at 150-160 and we have several baths and a properly sized unit would cost $$$$ and not give me the hot water I like.

 

[countryguy]

I inquired about a tankless heater also and it wasn't worth it for me either even when I could rent one for $29/month. Because I am on a well, the incoming water is very cold and the energy required to bring the water up to a hot enough temperature very quickly offset any energy being used to keep the water hot in my regular hot water tank. Also, living way up here where it can go down to -30C, there have been problems with the units freezing up.

Gary

 

[mrb627]

Tankless = No payback

Yes, I would have to have a bigger gas line, electrician run power to the unit, and cut an additional vent either out the side wall of the garage or through the roof?

NO THANKS!

Malcolm

 

[mrb627]

Water Heater Replaced

Well, the plumbers just left about an hour ago. My water heater has been replaced. Here is a picture of the new unit. Thank goodness this issue has been put to bed.

 

[toggleswitch2]

NICE UNIT!

Interesting to see that flexile gas connctors are allowed. In NYC one MUST hard-plumb in boilers and hot water heaters.

No flexible connectors allowed for the gas, and I believe for the water ins and outs as well.

It is my understanding that in California one MUST use flexible connectors (and stap the unit to a wall) to help prevent damage from earthquakes. I was also intrigued by the seismic vales that cut-off gas service when the place is-a-rockin-and-a-rolin'.