How are your appliances connected

[dj-gabriele]

Gasgebrekklep...

Is that some kind of shut off valve for methane?
If so, yup, I have it It's just on the left side of the hobs, just forgot to photograph it with it's ugly yellow handle lol

Water at least 65°C ??? Do you know that all the boilers I know about heat water to a maximum of 60° here in Italy? Regardless of fuel: methane, propane, oil or electric.
We use to have a certification from the water company that the water is completely pure and free of germs, the law is actually more stringent than the one for bottled water, figures!
And of course, as I'm writing this I'm using my laptop and bathing in a tub of warm water that I didn't reheat at home hehe (of course I'm using battery power and wireless lan).
Nobody here uses really hot water because many are afraid of scalding so even at the higher temperature warm water is always safe. Expecially if you consider that all the appliances have built-in heaters (even if my Philco washer has a hot water connection).

Ohh, the triphase connectors for 400 V!! My father has many of them in his laundry and also many of those 230V... I almost forgot about them.

BTW, before the armonization of the voltages Italy used to have 220V phase/neutral voltage plus separate grounding. Now it is 230V to be consistent to the other European countries but since the voltage can vary within +/- 10% of the standard the actual line voltage is still 220V and the same should be IIRC in the UK with 240V even if UK law says -6% and +10% (a little more stringent than EU rules).

 

[mielabor]

I'm sorry but I don't know the English word for "gasgebrekklep". Has anyone an idea?

A "gasgebrekklep" is a device that shuts off your gas supply when the pressure falls below a certain level. It prevents the escaping from gas from burners that were left on when the pressure is restored. Although most gas appliances have also safety valves that prevent this there are still many older devices, especially cookers, around that remain open without manual intervention.

It seems that Louis also has to endure a life without "gasgebrekklep". I hope you will sleep sound tonight

Also to be seen in the picture is the grounding connection that ensures proper grounding when the water meter is removed for maintenance. All sections in the water supply system that can be removed must be bridged by a separate grounding connection. This is also for the safety of the plumber, there could otherwise exist a dangerous voltage difference between two pipe sections.

So here's the important question: do I have the most advanced gas supply?

 

[mielabor]

Oh I just remember:
When I was in Rome (Italy) the voltage was 110V. As you probably know now I am not easily frightened by substandard electrical installations but in the hotel we were staying it was really dangerous: in the shower there was an electrical water heater similar to the one I have, but it was connected to the power supply with wires that were simply twisted together and completely bare. All within easy reach from the shower. Now that's something that even I find unacceptable.

 

[MrX]

The ring circuit basically works like this:

The socket outlets are wired to a circuit that is connected at both ends to a single circuit breaker i.e. it's powered from both ends.
The breaker is rated 32Amps.

Every plug contains a fuse, this provides the over current protection for the appliance and its flex. It's not possible to buy non-fused plugs and no other type of plug fits the outlets.

It has the advantage of saving cable but it has quite a lot of disadvantages as well which is why it's generally not used in Ireland.

The article below explains all:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_circuit

 

[mickeyd]

"gasgebrekklep"

The Dutch works just fine for me, Theo: gas break clip or valve. ;'D

Wonderfully enlightening thread.!!!!

 

[MrX]

Our house is wired like this :

The supply's rated 100 Amps 230V 50Hz. (Single phase)

Grounding system : TN-C-S

The cable comes in underground into a meter cabinet which is located on a gable wall of the house.

In this box there's a service fuse (100A) sealed, a meter and an isolating switch (all anti-tamper sealed by the power company)

From there it goes to the distribution board.

This board starts out with a main double pole switch where you can isolate the entire supply.
From there it goes to a 100A main fuse to prevent overload of the supply line.

The individual circuits are as follows:
10 X socket outlet circuits all rated 20 Amps (RCD protected) - these serve all the various rooms with socket outlets. (All radial)
Different rooms have different number of circuits i.e. the kitchen uses more of them than anywhere else and the laundry room takes 2.
8 X lighting circuits all rated 10Amps (RCD protected for bathrooms and outdoors)
32A - Oven/Hob circuit (Cooking appliances are hardwired with local isolating switches located near by)
20A - Water heater (RCD protected)
10A - Central heating controls, boiler and pumps (RCD protected)
16A - Security system, door bell, smoke alarms and TV distribution system in attic (RCD protected)

Layout of outlets in the various rooms:

Plenty of outlets in each room with about 20 in the kitchen!
(Legally, you're required to put in 10 in the kitchen at minimum)

Our power consumption would be quite a lot lower than a typical US house as there's no electrical heating or air cooling required. We don't tend to use electric heating too much at all and air conditioning in Ireland is totally unnecessary as the climate is not hot enough to ever need it.

 

[mielabor]

Gasgebrekklep...

Literally translated:
gas = gas
gebrek = lacking
klep = valve

 

[foraloysius]

Theo,

Your gasmeter looks quite new. When was it installed?

I can live without a "gasgebrekklep" I don't use my gas hob when I'm leaving the house. I'm more concerned that my neighbours don't have one.

BTW, they sealed all the holes in the wall very nicely. I had to close all the holes in the closet with the meters with PUR foam because the new downstairs neighbour is a smoker!

 

[foraloysius]

BTW, my installation is 230V 48 amps which is the same as a 100 amps 110V one. No central air, gas heating and gas cooking makes sure that I don't have problems with the capacity.

 

[mielabor]

Louis:
My gas meter was installed in November 2006 if I remember correctly.

They didn't fill the holes after installing the pipes. I did it myself, just as I installed all the copper water pipes in my apartment when I saw the quality of the installation work done by the plumbers. I just can't bear pipes that are not mounted straight and are hanging loose from the wall.

 

[brisnat81]

The AU Perspective

Hi All,

In Australia, most houses have an 80amp 240v single phase service. If you have a large number of AC's you might have a 100amp 240v single phase service, but usually you would jump to 3phase 240v 80amp service. 240V phase to neutral (80 amps per phase) or 480V phase to phase. We had a domestic 3 phase hookup in the first house I lived in, but it was to primarily drive the 1970's Carrier AC Unit that we had.

These days we have an 80amp main, which powers the following:
2 x 20amp RCD GPOs
2 x 20amp RCD Lighting Circuits
1 x 20amp RCD for the Fridge
1 x 20amp MCB Hot water
1 x 32amp MCB Cooktop and Oven
1 x Electronic Surge Protector that shunts all voltages above 275V to earth.

The big advantage of our system over the american one, seems to be that we can run appliances up to the full rating of a circuit, rather than 80%. Therefore we need less circuits and less copper.

With 4800watts on a circuit, it could run all day without an issue. If you get up around 30amps, you might get an hour or so, but due to most high amperage loads being resistive and therefore thermostatically controlled, it would be highly unusual to pull more than 20amps continuously for more than a few minutes. The maximum wattage of a standard GPO is 2400watts. Any appliance over 20 amps such as Stoves, Ovens and Hotwater heaters are all hard wired. We have special 15amp and 20amp plugs and sockets which require to be connected to their own individual circuit.

Our hot water tank, is a heat exchange unit. It is an unpressurised 140L copper tank, in which the water is heated to approx 70degC. There is a copper coil immersed in this water, and as water is used, it is heated as it passes through the coil. The downside to this system is a low flow rate of 9L/min. The water level in the tank is mainted by the pressure relief valve on the pressurised line. When the water is sitting in the coils, it can heat above 80degC. When this happens, the relief valve opens, forcing cold water into the pipe and flushing the hot water from the pressurised line, into the tank. Every 6 months we might perform a manual top up, (By opening the valve) but usually it keeps itself full. Most houses have a Mains pressure tank of 240L to 400L depending on the size of the household.

I would take some pictures, but our setup is very mundane. The joys of living electrically with an up to date system

 

[MrX]

3 phase is pretty rare in residential installations in Ireland. You'd really want to have an unusual load requirement e.g. a major work shop attached to the house that needed 400V (380V) 3 phase power.

Normally, most installations are 80 or 100 amps although 63 amps was quite common in the past.

Also, most apartments are supplied with a 63A service.

In general though there's a reluctance to install 3 phase in residential situations unless it's completely unavoidable.

 

[toggleswitch]

I'll take dyslexia for $1,000 please alex.

~Copper chambers above valve are "air-hammer" eliminators.
Thank you. I stand corrected. These are air-chambers to avoid water hammer.

~Four conductors? I can top that!
Yes, I heard that about you! (LOL.)
I have never actually seen 3-phase plug-and-(flex)- cord connected appliances on this side of the pond. I have only seen a 3-phase cental air-conditoner (it was "hard-wired" [direclty wired] in one house that was in a commerical district where this type of power is avaialble. 3-phase power is nominally ("de nom" or "in name") 120/208v.

 

[toggleswitch]

~Why are there four prongs on the 220V plug? Do you use 110V and 220V simultaneously?

Yes. Customarily only heating elements in cookers/stoves and electric dryers are 220v. The fans, timers, motors and lamps are our standard 110v.

In some HVAC (heating, ventilation and air-conditiong) applications, all items including fans/blowers may be 220v exclusively, so we don't need or have a neutral in those situations.

 

[toggleswitch]

~Gasgebrekklep...

These safety valves won't let gas flow unless there is some resistance or back-pressure. We have these, but as far as I know only used with propane outdoor barbecues/grilles. We are used to natural gas (methane) which is lighter than air and rises. This dissipates by collecting near the ceiling.

Propane is heaver than air and collects near the floor, It can be though of as water flowing downstream. As such, it will collect inside the barbecue and will the hair off the parts from your waist down if there is a spark added during a leak and the stuff collects. At least with methane you'll have no eyelashes or hair on the head; but you will still be able to walk and pee, even if in the temporary darkness!


BTW I have never seen flexible tubing surrounding a gas meter here, but I have seen it in propane installations as the main piping within a home. Similarly, to thr best of my knowledge soldered/welded joints are not permitted with gas. (Flame blow-torch to a gas pipe? YIKES! *BA-BAOOM*) We tend to use flared copper (bendable) tubing or threaded black-iron or galvanized balck-iron rigid pipes). In commerical settings, gas pipes tend to be painted yellow for ease of identification.

$50 euro for a cooktop for one month's use? Are you cooking for an army? Is the whole buiding on one meter? Is electricty less expensive for cooking? *FAINT* *THUD* I have a gas cooker and a gas dryer, but cook mostly with electricity. My gas bill is $14 per month on the budget plan.

 

[toggleswitch]

Sorry to post in so many panels/boxes but this computer won&

while I am posting.

Ohh btw, Steve... what happened to those copper pipes and wood board? It looks burned! Was it put there before the welding took place?

Yes just before the soldering/welding took place. Those pipes are in the basement over concrete, so it makes fastening them easier.

 

[toggleswitch]

~10a washer + 6a dryer = 16a which is 80% of 20a and is therefore permissible on one 20a 110v line.

The DESIGN STANDARD allows for only 80% of the wires' rated capacity. The purpose of this is to allow for the consumer to use up to antoher 20% without blowing a fuse or tripping the circuit-breaker.

Of course the sum of the amperage of the circuit protection devises in the fuse box (UK=> consumer unit) (i.e. fuses and circuit breakers) far exceeds the main incoming mains/feeders and main circuit protection. Obviousty, not all loads will be engaged at the same time (giggle).

 

[toggleswitch]

Plug-in air conditoners (for American use) rated at 7.5 amps or above (about 10,000 BTU/h or two-room units and larger) typically contain the warning "use on single-outlet circuit only"; meaning run it on a separate line.

This is due, as we know, to very heavy starting draw (wattge/amperage) upon start-up which is typical of alternating current motors.

Our older fuses do have a time-delay feature for just such situations. However, I have to agree with the others who posted. If fuses it glows red be sure to stop using your elctric toothbrush and electric "personal massager" at the same time. Make sure your fire insurance is paid up, leave your purse behind and run for the hills Mary, RUN!

 

[mrboilwash]

I`ve found a few pictures of older German plugs and sockets on Ebay. They don`t show how my appliances are connected, but I think some of you might like them.
The first one is a typical example of an obsolete 380 Volt outlet, which have been quite common for stoves and even some washers. Louis` old dishwasher plug would fit in that one.

 

[retro-man]

Thank you everyone from all over the world. Most interesting reading and certainly have learned alot. I guess it's what you are used to seeing and dealing with in the coutry your in that makes perfect sense to you and systems. Again thanks for all the info.
Jon

 

[mrboilwash]

This one is a nice example of a non grounded plug. The Schuko patent dates back to 1926 but I estimate this non grounded version was used untill the 1950s.

 

[mrboilwash]

And here`s an example of an old appliance plug, which have been used for irons and so on.
Not much difference to the American counterpart except that it is a bit bigger and has a grounding clip.

 

[toggleswitch]

~What are the diameters of the tubes in the US? Here standard diameters for copper tubing in domestic set ups are 12, 15 and 22 mm. Oddly enough when threaded connectors are used we still have inch sizes: 3/8", 1/2", 3/4" etc.

Here is what my house has (a one-family residence) which I believe to be fairly typical.

Using 2.54cm per inch, & rounded.

1.00 inch service main (25mm)
0.75 inch "main branch" (19 mm) and outdoor hose-cock for watering.
0.50 inch branch (13mm) where all three bathroom fixtures- (we don't do bidets here, usually) feed from a 0.50inch pipe that feeds from the 0.75 inch main branch.

Drain piping is typically:

1.25 inches (32mm)for a bathroom drain
1.50 inches (38mm) for a kitchen drain
2.00 inches (51mm)for a steam-supply pipe (home heating)
4.00 inches (102mm) for a water closet and also a dryer vent hose.

Diameters shown are all I.D. (inside diameter) thickness of pipe is determined by "Schedule 10" and "Schedule 40" an explanation for which I am lacking right now.

Do fluorescent tube in metric lands run:
2 feet (24 inches) 61cm?
4 feet (48 inches) 122cm? (1.22m)?
8 feet (96 inches) 244cm? (2.44m)?

~Oddly enough when threaded connectors are used we still have inch sizes: 3/8", 1/2", 3/4" etc.

Speakign of which, our light-bulbs (lamps) use a "standard" Edison-base threaded connection. I'm sure it's sized using the English system. Light-bulbs by GE (and perhaps Philips) fit, but the "international" imitations that are probably metric in size but very close-- go in but shatter on their way out. I personally won't use anything but GE!

 

[mielabor]

Older plugs?

Ungrounded plugs and sockets are still very common here. Ungrounded sockets were installed until a few years ago in new installations and are still widely available for use in existing installations.

 

[mielabor]

These are commonly used to increase the number of available sockets:

 

[mielabor]

Old model appliance plug in my iron:

 

[toggleswitch]

Really? *LOL*

 

[toggleswitch]

This one converts two outlets (a standard duplex) to six outlets.

The top row is fed from one plug, and the bottom row from the other.

Our wall sockets usually have two outlets and can be wired as one or two circuits.

 

[toggleswitch]

other side (male)

 

[mielabor]

Various plugs:
A Europlug (ungrounded)
B Plug for appliances with double insulation (ungrounded)
C Grounded plug
All will fit in both grounded and ungrounded sockets.