rolls_rapide
Well-known member
Chlorine bleach kills everything - viruses, bacteria and moulds.
How Can Handwashing Dishes Increase Your Chances of Getting Sick?
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Supposedly chlorine bleach has its limitations, as well.
Back when Costco was selling a water ozonator system, the literature that came with the product stated that ozonated water worked instantly to kill 100% of the bacteria it contacted, whereas chlorine bleach in typical topical strength took at least 15 minutes for the same effect.
I never bought the system because it was kind of pricey and I didn't see the need, really. But perhaps the product literature was correct in its claims - I don't know. But I wouldn't trust diluted chlorine bleach as a 100% disinfectant, either.
Back when Costco was selling a water ozonator system, the literature that came with the product stated that ozonated water worked instantly to kill 100% of the bacteria it contacted, whereas chlorine bleach in typical topical strength took at least 15 minutes for the same effect.
I never bought the system because it was kind of pricey and I didn't see the need, really. But perhaps the product literature was correct in its claims - I don't know. But I wouldn't trust diluted chlorine bleach as a 100% disinfectant, either.
Sanitising
A quick question for any appliance repairmen (or women) following this thread:
Is it possible to use Chlorine Bleach, Alcoholic Sanitizer or a Food-Grade sanitizer in your rinse-aid dispenser? If you were concerned, perhaps you could mix some rinse-aid and another chemical (hopefully without disastrous effects)
A quick question for any appliance repairmen (or women) following this thread:
Is it possible to use Chlorine Bleach, Alcoholic Sanitizer or a Food-Grade sanitizer in your rinse-aid dispenser? If you were concerned, perhaps you could mix some rinse-aid and another chemical (hopefully without disastrous effects)
You Can Find Commercial Rinse Aids That Have Sanitizing Prop
At any supply house for restaurants and or other food handling businesses.
Shouldn't try mixing various things into one's rinse aid dispenser especially with pre-made agents. If you are that concerned about things you can always stop the DW as it fills for the rinse and add LCB.
In any case you would want to get the ratios correct. That is you want enough to kill germs but also not cause harm if you ingest the residue. This is one reason why I'd go for commercial products designed for the job rather than playing mad scientist.
At any supply house for restaurants and or other food handling businesses.
Shouldn't try mixing various things into one's rinse aid dispenser especially with pre-made agents. If you are that concerned about things you can always stop the DW as it fills for the rinse and add LCB.
In any case you would want to get the ratios correct. That is you want enough to kill germs but also not cause harm if you ingest the residue. This is one reason why I'd go for commercial products designed for the job rather than playing mad scientist.
something
seems a little tiny bit off with this subject or maybe I should say over 'kill" LOL
If you have clean dishes to start with, and you put food that you have cooked (cooked being the operative word here) on the dishes. What germs exactly are you trying to kill? and is it necessary to kill them, or just have them slip and slide down the drain?
Naturally if you cut up a chicken on a cutting board, it might be wise to wash with some mild soap to witch a little LCB has been added, and be aware of any cross contamination,
But is there a specific germ or microbe someone is afraid of?
seems a little tiny bit off with this subject or maybe I should say over 'kill" LOL
If you have clean dishes to start with, and you put food that you have cooked (cooked being the operative word here) on the dishes. What germs exactly are you trying to kill? and is it necessary to kill them, or just have them slip and slide down the drain?
Naturally if you cut up a chicken on a cutting board, it might be wise to wash with some mild soap to witch a little LCB has been added, and be aware of any cross contamination,
But is there a specific germ or microbe someone is afraid of?
My granny's approach!
This is how my grandmother used to do her dishes (she was in her 80s and was never a huge fan of dishwashers)
1) Scrape plates - scraps of dog-friendly food usually got added to the dog's dinner and bird-friendly food on the bird table in the garden.
2) Rinse everything with cold water.
3) Put everything into a large stainless steel basin. Fill with tap-hot water and a large dollop of Fairy Liquid (Dawn in the US).
4) Wash everything with a dish-brush and cloth (wearing industrial-strength pink rubber gloves with flowers on them, of course)
5) Turn on the heat - bring the whole lot to the boil for a few minutes.
6) Allow to cool - Go watch TV, make scones, drink a cup of tea, play with the dog or whatever.
7) Remove dishes and rinse and then put on rack over the sink to air dry.
If she was particularly inclined or if there were tea-stains in cups, she would add Milton Sterilising Liquid (1% sodium hypochlorite designed to sterilise babys' bottles).
What worries me is that a lot of younger people who hand-wash dishes just slosh them around in some detergent and warm water and throw them into a draining rack. I had housemates in university who didn't even rinse them! It became too gross, so we got a dishwasher installed.
In shared office kitchens it's absolutely vital to have a dishwasher though.
I know of plenty of situations where colds, flu etc were spread around by people not properly washing dishes in that kind of scenario.
I was just looking at some statistics on dishwasher usage in Ireland.
In 1987 only 7.6% of homes had a dishwasher where as by 2012 that's now over 60%. (Actually higher than the US where it's about 58% of all houses and more like 88% of new homes)
(Checked some stats online)
It's just interesting how in Ireland and (also in Britain) dishwashers had been seen as a very unnecessary luxury item right into the 1990s and then all of a sudden became a mainstream essential. While some of it may have been to do with economics, more of it had to do with attitudes. There was weirdly slow adoption of some of those things in Britain and Ireland compared to other Northern European countries and a lot of it had to do with attitudes that hung around from the post-war era of 'mend and make do'
This is how my grandmother used to do her dishes (she was in her 80s and was never a huge fan of dishwashers)
1) Scrape plates - scraps of dog-friendly food usually got added to the dog's dinner and bird-friendly food on the bird table in the garden.
2) Rinse everything with cold water.
3) Put everything into a large stainless steel basin. Fill with tap-hot water and a large dollop of Fairy Liquid (Dawn in the US).
4) Wash everything with a dish-brush and cloth (wearing industrial-strength pink rubber gloves with flowers on them, of course)
5) Turn on the heat - bring the whole lot to the boil for a few minutes.
6) Allow to cool - Go watch TV, make scones, drink a cup of tea, play with the dog or whatever.
7) Remove dishes and rinse and then put on rack over the sink to air dry.
If she was particularly inclined or if there were tea-stains in cups, she would add Milton Sterilising Liquid (1% sodium hypochlorite designed to sterilise babys' bottles).
What worries me is that a lot of younger people who hand-wash dishes just slosh them around in some detergent and warm water and throw them into a draining rack. I had housemates in university who didn't even rinse them! It became too gross, so we got a dishwasher installed.
In shared office kitchens it's absolutely vital to have a dishwasher though.
I know of plenty of situations where colds, flu etc were spread around by people not properly washing dishes in that kind of scenario.
I was just looking at some statistics on dishwasher usage in Ireland.
In 1987 only 7.6% of homes had a dishwasher where as by 2012 that's now over 60%. (Actually higher than the US where it's about 58% of all houses and more like 88% of new homes)
(Checked some stats online)
It's just interesting how in Ireland and (also in Britain) dishwashers had been seen as a very unnecessary luxury item right into the 1990s and then all of a sudden became a mainstream essential. While some of it may have been to do with economics, more of it had to do with attitudes. There was weirdly slow adoption of some of those things in Britain and Ireland compared to other Northern European countries and a lot of it had to do with attitudes that hung around from the post-war era of 'mend and make do'
Younger People and Dishwashing:
Totally agree. I know a particular member (younger than me) of this household is pretty bad for washing. People at Home-Ec are pretty bad. No matter how much I hate it - I DO THE DISHES in Home-Ec. My way, or the highway. Properly cleaned. Seldom rinsed (since we only get a single sink, its pretty hard to rinse... Although more water changes come to mind!)
At work, we don't have a dishwasher. Whenever I get a cup for my Tea during a break, I will get the one that isn't still wet around the lip. When I'm finished, I fill the bottom with detergent and "over-flow" wash it, 2-3 times. Then, I use the hot water from the kettle (or the urn, before it broke), which is VERY hot to swish around and sterilise my cup. Sometimes, I used to just swish the boiling water around. Very good! Tea/Coffee stains clear up so quickly.
I was gonna suggest a dishwasher, but I think the Cigarette Vending Machine for when plain packaging comes along is a bigger priority (Vending Machine for the TILL operators, not just your convenience
)
Totally agree. I know a particular member (younger than me) of this household is pretty bad for washing. People at Home-Ec are pretty bad. No matter how much I hate it - I DO THE DISHES in Home-Ec. My way, or the highway. Properly cleaned. Seldom rinsed (since we only get a single sink, its pretty hard to rinse... Although more water changes come to mind!)
At work, we don't have a dishwasher. Whenever I get a cup for my Tea during a break, I will get the one that isn't still wet around the lip. When I'm finished, I fill the bottom with detergent and "over-flow" wash it, 2-3 times. Then, I use the hot water from the kettle (or the urn, before it broke), which is VERY hot to swish around and sterilise my cup. Sometimes, I used to just swish the boiling water around. Very good! Tea/Coffee stains clear up so quickly.
I was gonna suggest a dishwasher, but I think the Cigarette Vending Machine for when plain packaging comes along is a bigger priority (Vending Machine for the TILL operators, not just your convenience
)
danemodsandy
Well-known member
Stan:
Bacteria are everywhere.
We cope quite well with a reasonable number of them, and a good thing, too, because the little buggers are floating in the very air we breathe.
However, our main concern at table is - or should be - one another. Flatware (cutlery) goes into one's mouth and back into the food on one's plate, over and over again. Food is as nourishing to bacteria (and viruses) as it is to us. By the time your dinner is finished, any food scraps on the plate are thoroughly contaminated with whatever you've got going on, be it a light cold, or strep, or a dental infection or 'flu or what have you.
This is why good table manners dictate certain ways of handling things that are communally used, such as butter dishes. For butter, you're supposed to use the master butter knife to put some butter at the side of your bread plate, then use your own individual butter knife to spread some on a bite of bread. In this way, no utensil is ever touching anything that has been in someone's mouth.
There are - or should be - additional concerns with e.coli, often found on the hands of people who are careless about washing their hands after a bathroom visit and before eating. There was a bloomin' reason our mothers were so adamant about hand-washing before sitting down to a meal, and sadly, many of today's badly-raised people just don't get it, thinking their germs are good enough for them and should therefore be good enough for anyone else.
And bacteria that have been suppressed to harmless levels by cooking can rebound, big-time, in the lukewarm temperatures found in food that sits around a bit.
Simple, proper washing, correct food-handling procedures and good table manners take care of all these problems; if they did not, the human race would not be here today. But I'm often appalled at how careless some younger people are about very basic sanitation nowadays - or how ignorant. They usually get it that someone else's germs can make them sick, but they act as if their own germs were somehow sanctified, and that it's perfectly all right to spread them around in every way possible. I was recently made sick with strep for a week by a young person coughing on me. Now that I'll be back to work today, he's getting a tongue-lashing, trust me.
Bacteria are everywhere.
We cope quite well with a reasonable number of them, and a good thing, too, because the little buggers are floating in the very air we breathe.
However, our main concern at table is - or should be - one another. Flatware (cutlery) goes into one's mouth and back into the food on one's plate, over and over again. Food is as nourishing to bacteria (and viruses) as it is to us. By the time your dinner is finished, any food scraps on the plate are thoroughly contaminated with whatever you've got going on, be it a light cold, or strep, or a dental infection or 'flu or what have you.
This is why good table manners dictate certain ways of handling things that are communally used, such as butter dishes. For butter, you're supposed to use the master butter knife to put some butter at the side of your bread plate, then use your own individual butter knife to spread some on a bite of bread. In this way, no utensil is ever touching anything that has been in someone's mouth.
There are - or should be - additional concerns with e.coli, often found on the hands of people who are careless about washing their hands after a bathroom visit and before eating. There was a bloomin' reason our mothers were so adamant about hand-washing before sitting down to a meal, and sadly, many of today's badly-raised people just don't get it, thinking their germs are good enough for them and should therefore be good enough for anyone else.
And bacteria that have been suppressed to harmless levels by cooking can rebound, big-time, in the lukewarm temperatures found in food that sits around a bit.
Simple, proper washing, correct food-handling procedures and good table manners take care of all these problems; if they did not, the human race would not be here today. But I'm often appalled at how careless some younger people are about very basic sanitation nowadays - or how ignorant. They usually get it that someone else's germs can make them sick, but they act as if their own germs were somehow sanctified, and that it's perfectly all right to spread them around in every way possible. I was recently made sick with strep for a week by a young person coughing on me. Now that I'll be back to work today, he's getting a tongue-lashing, trust me.
I can't stand my Kitchen to have a dish in the sink but I have been reading that we have been isolating ourselves to much from germs
has anybody else read that?I always use the sani wash on my dishwasher but sense my Mother has passed all harsh chemicals are gone save for bleach, but I don't think it was cleaners that made Moma sick I think it was the chemicals/poisons and being a botanist .I have read warnings about Tricloscan the active ingredients in most antibacterial soap.My Brothers wife keeps there new baby at home away from everybody and goes nuts if anybody touches her.The body has to be exposed to things otherwise anti-bodies will never be made and babies will get sick but she is like a crazy person.I bleach my sink after I load my dishwasher because I can't stand
it not shining but I do wondering about these things about antibacterial everything and is it to much?
has anybody else read that?I always use the sani wash on my dishwasher but sense my Mother has passed all harsh chemicals are gone save for bleach, but I don't think it was cleaners that made Moma sick I think it was the chemicals/poisons and being a botanist .I have read warnings about Tricloscan the active ingredients in most antibacterial soap.My Brothers wife keeps there new baby at home away from everybody and goes nuts if anybody touches her.The body has to be exposed to things otherwise anti-bodies will never be made and babies will get sick but she is like a crazy person.I bleach my sink after I load my dishwasher because I can't stand
it not shining but I do wondering about these things about antibacterial everything and is it to much?
@washer111
Yeah, I completely agree with that one.
I think some people seem to think that 'washing-up liquid' (dishwashing detergent) works by magic. You still have to scrape, rub, scrub and rinse!
I know there are all these 'extra hygiene' versions with various anti-bacterials in them, but they're more likely to just produce superbugs.
There are way too many anti-bacterial products being used in kitchens. Nothing beats, soap, hot water elbow-grease and if you do need to disinfect an area, chlorine bleach !
Surfaces are adequately cleaned with just normal soapy cleaners, hot water and plenty of wiping down and then being allowed to dry. Anti-bacterial products are generally unnecessary.
On the cigarette vending machines point, we've similarly severe laws on cigarette sales in Ireland While we haven't adopted the full packaging wraps like Australia (yet), it's been illegal to physically display any branding for quite some time. So, if a shop's selling cigarettes they have to be in a locked, non-branded cabinet and absolutely no branding's allowed to be visible in the store. Most stores have automatic dispensers / vending machines behind the counter that hide the packaging and protect staff from any risk of raids as cigarettes are now pretty expensive. I don't smoke (checked online to see what the average price is) €9.10 about US$12 for a pack of 20. I know Australia's prices are similarly enormous although, I think you've packs of 25 rather than 20. We're likely to increase the prices again this year.
They even allow the Office of Tobacco Control to send in kids to attempt to buy cigarettes. If a shop sells them they're open to enormous fines.
Smoking indoors (other than your own home, and only if nobody's working there e.g. you cannot smoke if you've a painter, plumber, cleaner etc working there as it's technically a 'workplace') has been illegal since 29 March 2004 and comes with a fine of €3000 (AUS$ 3770). They're extending that ban to public parks, beaches, boardwalks and sports grounds.
Automatic cigarette vending machines were also banned outright several years ago as they cannot verify the age of someone purchasing cigarettes. So, they have to be purchased manually from a real person.
Yeah, I completely agree with that one.
I think some people seem to think that 'washing-up liquid' (dishwashing detergent) works by magic. You still have to scrape, rub, scrub and rinse!
I know there are all these 'extra hygiene' versions with various anti-bacterials in them, but they're more likely to just produce superbugs.
There are way too many anti-bacterial products being used in kitchens. Nothing beats, soap, hot water elbow-grease and if you do need to disinfect an area, chlorine bleach !
Surfaces are adequately cleaned with just normal soapy cleaners, hot water and plenty of wiping down and then being allowed to dry. Anti-bacterial products are generally unnecessary.
On the cigarette vending machines point, we've similarly severe laws on cigarette sales in Ireland While we haven't adopted the full packaging wraps like Australia (yet), it's been illegal to physically display any branding for quite some time. So, if a shop's selling cigarettes they have to be in a locked, non-branded cabinet and absolutely no branding's allowed to be visible in the store. Most stores have automatic dispensers / vending machines behind the counter that hide the packaging and protect staff from any risk of raids as cigarettes are now pretty expensive. I don't smoke (checked online to see what the average price is) €9.10 about US$12 for a pack of 20. I know Australia's prices are similarly enormous although, I think you've packs of 25 rather than 20. We're likely to increase the prices again this year.
They even allow the Office of Tobacco Control to send in kids to attempt to buy cigarettes. If a shop sells them they're open to enormous fines.
Smoking indoors (other than your own home, and only if nobody's working there e.g. you cannot smoke if you've a painter, plumber, cleaner etc working there as it's technically a 'workplace') has been illegal since 29 March 2004 and comes with a fine of €3000 (AUS$ 3770). They're extending that ban to public parks, beaches, boardwalks and sports grounds.
Automatic cigarette vending machines were also banned outright several years ago as they cannot verify the age of someone purchasing cigarettes. So, they have to be purchased manually from a real person.
When washing by hand, it's important to let everything dry completely, especiallly things like wooden spoons (and your toothbrush between uses!). In a restaurant they do a bleach sanitize as a final rinse when washing by hand, but that's more important in a restaurant where things don't always get a chance to dry completely before they're used again.
Ken D.
Ken D.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
It's funny how
we need germs and bugs to build immunity, but then there are those other germs and bugs that will KILL us no matter how many germs and bugs we've been exposed to in our lives.
we need germs and bugs to build immunity, but then there are those other germs and bugs that will KILL us no matter how many germs and bugs we've been exposed to in our lives.
@MrX
In regards to the cigarettes (off topic, I know)
They claim that plain packages reduce the chance of the buyer thinking smoking is healthy! How the hell did the government come up with that????!!!!
I don't see ANYTHING on the packs that makes them look "healthier" than anything else, they are just showing their brands. And why does it matter, since they are in a LOCKED cupboard where no-one sees them! Then, they say it will deter people. Excuse me, but has Ms. Rixton (or whatever our devilish health minister's name is) seen an addicted smoker? They buy the packet, maybe see the warning for 2-3 secs while the pack is retrieved, then they stuff it in their bag/pocket and will get cigarettes (or roll them) WITHOUT looking at the packet! Ding-Dong! Who didn't think a smoker did that?
By the way, one of the people I know that is my age (a peer, but NOT a friend), stole cigarettes. We have 2 cupboards, the resale cupboard and the Cartons cupboard (both upfront), since he had to fill it up one day (or put them away/work the cigarettes till, where they keep some cartons to fill the cupboard), he stole CIGARS, CIGARETTES and so forth. Whats worse, he stole from the BACK STORAGE area (no cameras....), this went on for around a month before someone dobbed him in (not me, but other peers).
Now, he goes around and finds lit cigarette butts OR finds them and relights them (or shares with other Teen smokers).
I don't think plain packages will curb the "Cool-People" smoking here... Especially when one guy has the pack, and holds the pack in a way that no-one will see it, and then offers smokes to everyone else. (Lol).
Anyway, I've made my point.
Back on topic now!
In regards to the cigarettes (off topic, I know)
They claim that plain packages reduce the chance of the buyer thinking smoking is healthy! How the hell did the government come up with that????!!!!
I don't see ANYTHING on the packs that makes them look "healthier" than anything else, they are just showing their brands. And why does it matter, since they are in a LOCKED cupboard where no-one sees them! Then, they say it will deter people. Excuse me, but has Ms. Rixton (or whatever our devilish health minister's name is) seen an addicted smoker? They buy the packet, maybe see the warning for 2-3 secs while the pack is retrieved, then they stuff it in their bag/pocket and will get cigarettes (or roll them) WITHOUT looking at the packet! Ding-Dong! Who didn't think a smoker did that?
By the way, one of the people I know that is my age (a peer, but NOT a friend), stole cigarettes. We have 2 cupboards, the resale cupboard and the Cartons cupboard (both upfront), since he had to fill it up one day (or put them away/work the cigarettes till, where they keep some cartons to fill the cupboard), he stole CIGARS, CIGARETTES and so forth. Whats worse, he stole from the BACK STORAGE area (no cameras....), this went on for around a month before someone dobbed him in (not me, but other peers).
Now, he goes around and finds lit cigarette butts OR finds them and relights them (or shares with other Teen smokers).
I don't think plain packages will curb the "Cool-People" smoking here... Especially when one guy has the pack, and holds the pack in a way that no-one will see it, and then offers smokes to everyone else. (Lol).
Anyway, I've made my point.
Back on topic now!
You're right, smoking is off topic, and I'm opening a thread on it over in the green forum.
The other rather disgusting habit I came across in my student days was people not comprehending the fact that clothes will become disgusting if left wet on a sink for even 24 hours.
I had a housemate who washed dishes with absolutely disgusting dish clothes.
Then again, most things he did were absolutely disgusting.
I had a housemate who washed dishes with absolutely disgusting dish clothes.
Then again, most things he did were absolutely disgusting.
Wow, interesting thread. I guess Im in the minority here but I['ll take bacteria over chemicals any day. i keep a clean kitchen, but not apparently by many of your standards. i wash the counter tops with hot soapy water, run dishes and silverware through the dish washer, but I do keep my water at 150 degrees. Depending on my mood the pots may sit in the sink for a day or more, I'm healthy overall so guess it works for me.
I think as a society we've gone way overboard on the sanitary thing. Humans have lived in a cesspool of bacteria from time immemorial and we are still here today. Super germs only developed when we humans started making chemicals to destroy them. I used to be much more of a clean freak but I made the conscious decision to live in my environment in a more normal manner and I think I'm better for it. I think chemicals present much more of a danger to us than any ordinary bacteria ever would.
I think as a society we've gone way overboard on the sanitary thing. Humans have lived in a cesspool of bacteria from time immemorial and we are still here today. Super germs only developed when we humans started making chemicals to destroy them. I used to be much more of a clean freak but I made the conscious decision to live in my environment in a more normal manner and I think I'm better for it. I think chemicals present much more of a danger to us than any ordinary bacteria ever would.
