I need a 4WD truck where I live. I only have 22000 miles on mine now so it so it would be impractical for me to trade it for an electric, plus I am NOT waiting forever at a charging station where I can fill my gas tank in minutes and on my way.
How likely are you to convert your car to Electric?
- Thread starter bradfordwhite
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Charging times:
Of course it will vary based on the use you have, the distance you drive, etc, HOWEVER, unless you're a delivery driver, charging shouldn't be an issue at all using a regular dryer outlet.
Somebody that drives let's say, 80 miles per day, charging would take something around 3 to 4 hours at home. Fast charging stations are popping up everywhere. It will reach a point that nearly all parking spots will have chargers.
I've researched that very deeply before deciding to go electric and I was surprised with the absurd number of chargers here in Los Angeles. There are even regular street parking spots, with a parking meter and a level 2 charger. Nearly all supermarkets, drugstores, shopping malls, restaurants, etc have parking spots with level 3 charging.
Of course, the networks grow according to the demand. It makes no sense to put a zillion chargers in a small town that has only 2 or 3 electric cars, but once the fleet of electric cars in a certain area grows, the demand will automatically ask for more offer.
Here in Los Angeles, The number of EVs is much higher than in other cities, so this demand created more offers, because companies want to sell electricity the same way gas stations want to sell gas.
One thing is surely a fact. EVs came to stay and theres no way to go back. Different from hydrogen, for example, that arrived as a super revolutionary technology and turned into a nightmare for those who bought Mirai and Clarity and have to deal with only a handful of stations, absurdly expensive fuel, some stations with no fuel, some with defective pumps, giant lines and, depending on the weather, the nozzle can freeze and you're stuck for 30 minutes waiting for it to defrost so you can disconnect it from the car. An electrical plug... well, everybody knows how to use one, don't you?
Of course it will vary based on the use you have, the distance you drive, etc, HOWEVER, unless you're a delivery driver, charging shouldn't be an issue at all using a regular dryer outlet.
Somebody that drives let's say, 80 miles per day, charging would take something around 3 to 4 hours at home. Fast charging stations are popping up everywhere. It will reach a point that nearly all parking spots will have chargers.
I've researched that very deeply before deciding to go electric and I was surprised with the absurd number of chargers here in Los Angeles. There are even regular street parking spots, with a parking meter and a level 2 charger. Nearly all supermarkets, drugstores, shopping malls, restaurants, etc have parking spots with level 3 charging.
Of course, the networks grow according to the demand. It makes no sense to put a zillion chargers in a small town that has only 2 or 3 electric cars, but once the fleet of electric cars in a certain area grows, the demand will automatically ask for more offer.
Here in Los Angeles, The number of EVs is much higher than in other cities, so this demand created more offers, because companies want to sell electricity the same way gas stations want to sell gas.
One thing is surely a fact. EVs came to stay and theres no way to go back. Different from hydrogen, for example, that arrived as a super revolutionary technology and turned into a nightmare for those who bought Mirai and Clarity and have to deal with only a handful of stations, absurdly expensive fuel, some stations with no fuel, some with defective pumps, giant lines and, depending on the weather, the nozzle can freeze and you're stuck for 30 minutes waiting for it to defrost so you can disconnect it from the car. An electrical plug... well, everybody knows how to use one, don't you?
And also....
The average range on EVs vary from 250 to 350 miles. That can EASILY be charged overnight using a dryer outlet (no need for a dedicated outlet), so the next morning the batteries are full again.
Then people will always co.plain, omg, but I can't go from Los Angeles to Miami, it will take forever to charge.
Well, yes.... not forever but average 30 minutes using a fast charger.
But... how often do we really travel super long distances?
Precious word: money!
Even here in California, with absurd hight electricity costs, a full "tank" costs something near $6.
A few months ago, gas price was slightly above $7. So, we have $6 to "fill the tank" on an EV vs average $80 to fill the tank of a regular gas car.
Nearly everybody that switched to electric thought their electrical bills would skyrocket like crazy... nope, nearly all EV users ended up surprised because the electrical bill is higher, of course, but not absurdly higher and you're saving big money on gas, oil changes, etc.
The average range on EVs vary from 250 to 350 miles. That can EASILY be charged overnight using a dryer outlet (no need for a dedicated outlet), so the next morning the batteries are full again.
Then people will always co.plain, omg, but I can't go from Los Angeles to Miami, it will take forever to charge.
Well, yes.... not forever but average 30 minutes using a fast charger.
But... how often do we really travel super long distances?
Precious word: money!
Even here in California, with absurd hight electricity costs, a full "tank" costs something near $6.
A few months ago, gas price was slightly above $7. So, we have $6 to "fill the tank" on an EV vs average $80 to fill the tank of a regular gas car.
Nearly everybody that switched to electric thought their electrical bills would skyrocket like crazy... nope, nearly all EV users ended up surprised because the electrical bill is higher, of course, but not absurdly higher and you're saving big money on gas, oil changes, etc.
givemehotwater
Well-known member
@thomasortega
I just so happen to live in the Suburbs surrounding New York City, and my experiences couldn't be more different than yours.
First off... in my home, my laundry room is actually on the 2nd Floor, so I most certainly COULD NOT use the dryer outlet, without running some sort of absurdly long extension cord to my attached garage. Almost my entire subdivision, I think, built by Toll Brothers has the same setup, with second-floor laundry.
Then... there is a simple fact that my dryer is Gas. As is, probably everyone else's dryers in my subdivision. I don't have a single 220V Outlet in my home, now that I think about it out loud.
For my second argument, I couldn't disagree with you more. Despite large swaths of citizens here being fully "green" and going out of their way to purchase the latest and greatest, we do not have a huge system of Charging Stations.
So far I've only noticed them at certain Supermarket Chains, Chain Restaurants (no thanks), and other random places. The idea of sitting at one for over an hour literally pisses me off.
While 250 miles sounds like a lot, I could easily go through that in a few days with a trip out to the Jersey Shore. And, for me... as I said, my time is too valuable to spend waiting for a "charger" to do its thing, especially during a weekend when I want to spend my time enjoying myself.
I also will tell you that gas is literally under $3 a gallon here, and the price of gas isn't really that much of a concern for me. Nor am I interested in getting rid of my Gasoline vehicle, and outlaying cash for an electric.
Even beyond the limitations (which I wouldn't care about as much if I could go 1,000+ miles on a charge)... one thing that bothers me, is the constant need, by politicians to force "progress".
Consumers at the end of the day should be the ones making the best decision for themselves. Not Politicians, and Not 3rd Parties, who feel as though their viewpoints are more important than others. We seem to have a VERY BIG Problem with that in this country.
I just so happen to live in the Suburbs surrounding New York City, and my experiences couldn't be more different than yours.
First off... in my home, my laundry room is actually on the 2nd Floor, so I most certainly COULD NOT use the dryer outlet, without running some sort of absurdly long extension cord to my attached garage. Almost my entire subdivision, I think, built by Toll Brothers has the same setup, with second-floor laundry.
Then... there is a simple fact that my dryer is Gas. As is, probably everyone else's dryers in my subdivision. I don't have a single 220V Outlet in my home, now that I think about it out loud.
For my second argument, I couldn't disagree with you more. Despite large swaths of citizens here being fully "green" and going out of their way to purchase the latest and greatest, we do not have a huge system of Charging Stations.
So far I've only noticed them at certain Supermarket Chains, Chain Restaurants (no thanks), and other random places. The idea of sitting at one for over an hour literally pisses me off.
While 250 miles sounds like a lot, I could easily go through that in a few days with a trip out to the Jersey Shore. And, for me... as I said, my time is too valuable to spend waiting for a "charger" to do its thing, especially during a weekend when I want to spend my time enjoying myself.
I also will tell you that gas is literally under $3 a gallon here, and the price of gas isn't really that much of a concern for me. Nor am I interested in getting rid of my Gasoline vehicle, and outlaying cash for an electric.
Even beyond the limitations (which I wouldn't care about as much if I could go 1,000+ miles on a charge)... one thing that bothers me, is the constant need, by politicians to force "progress".
Consumers at the end of the day should be the ones making the best decision for themselves. Not Politicians, and Not 3rd Parties, who feel as though their viewpoints are more important than others. We seem to have a VERY BIG Problem with that in this country.
Although I'm very intrigued by electric cars and I loved those I have used, for the time being I see no good reason to change to electric. My 11 year old Smart is very efficient and the last years I have only driven around 4000 kilometers per year. Actually this week the odometer passed the 66,666 kilometer mark. When you change to an electric car you should consider where the break even point is for the environmental footprint. The production of an electric car gives a much bigger footprint than a petrol car. That has to be compensated by enough kilometers/miles. If your kilometrage/mileage is low, you might not reach that break even point.
However if my Smart is at it's end of it's life I might consider buying an electric car. There are some interesting models coming out in the next few years, like the Volkswagen ID2 and perhaps some interesting model from Citroën based on the prototype Citroën Oli
However if my Smart is at it's end of it's life I might consider buying an electric car. There are some interesting models coming out in the next few years, like the Volkswagen ID2 and perhaps some interesting model from Citroën based on the prototype Citroën Oli
I'm waiting for a better income situation (finishing Bachelor) gonna safe up for a year or two and then probably go for it.
I wouldn't convert my car, I'd buy an original EV.
There is a lot of magic sauce in terms of systems integration and controlling that makes many EVs as good as they are - more than the sum of the parts, so to say.
The lifetime cost of an EV - at least over here - is considerably lower than a gas car.
Even when traveling, there is no real route through Germany I could use that would need more than a 20-30min charging stop (in the right car).
With certain route planner apps that balance charge time over distance to reduce overall stopped time, you can cross Germany from north edge to south edge with maybe 90min in time spent charging - which at over 1000km distance isn't terrible at all.
I would probably go with a Hyundai offering.
800V traction battery and thus DC charge system means you can get up to 300kW peak charging with typical 20-80% charging in 20min or less.
The rates ranges there go up to above 500km - which apparently translates to 300-350km in realistic highway range.
Their technology suite is pretty good, they have a 360 camera system (had it in a rental once, miss it ever since).
And pricing is ok.
Still a huge upfront cost - but not unmanageable with my income bracket.
I honestly am still waiting for the "one size down" offerings.
There is a certain scale issue with electric cars getting to the size my Polo is. At some point you just don't have the space in the cars floor construction for a big traction battery.
But i wish there was a Hyundai Ioniq 4, an ID2 or a Model 2 - just like a foot and half shorter and mayber half a foot less tall.
I wouldn't convert my car, I'd buy an original EV.
There is a lot of magic sauce in terms of systems integration and controlling that makes many EVs as good as they are - more than the sum of the parts, so to say.
The lifetime cost of an EV - at least over here - is considerably lower than a gas car.
Even when traveling, there is no real route through Germany I could use that would need more than a 20-30min charging stop (in the right car).
With certain route planner apps that balance charge time over distance to reduce overall stopped time, you can cross Germany from north edge to south edge with maybe 90min in time spent charging - which at over 1000km distance isn't terrible at all.
I would probably go with a Hyundai offering.
800V traction battery and thus DC charge system means you can get up to 300kW peak charging with typical 20-80% charging in 20min or less.
The rates ranges there go up to above 500km - which apparently translates to 300-350km in realistic highway range.
Their technology suite is pretty good, they have a 360 camera system (had it in a rental once, miss it ever since).
And pricing is ok.
Still a huge upfront cost - but not unmanageable with my income bracket.
I honestly am still waiting for the "one size down" offerings.
There is a certain scale issue with electric cars getting to the size my Polo is. At some point you just don't have the space in the cars floor construction for a big traction battery.
But i wish there was a Hyundai Ioniq 4, an ID2 or a Model 2 - just like a foot and half shorter and mayber half a foot less tall.
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
For those wanting to do a retro car, an electric conversion is the perfect way to make it new again. Could be a model T or my fav. a 1980s Grand Marquis or Lincoln Towncar.
More companies making kits are bringing the prices down.
I guess it takes a day in a shop to convert, probably under ideal circumstances.
Some would say taking a older vehicle and ditching the petrol engine would affect it's market value. I say YES, it would increase it because (assuming the car chassis is in reasonably good condition) you'd have a whole NEW drive train.
The worst part of any restored vehicle is the crap engine belching out eye watering fumes and maintenance. When I see the occasional restored vehicle on the road, I usually cringe and keep a good distance, it doesn't matter how good of job they've done on the paint restoration because I know the tail pipe will be leaving behind major stink.
But, if it were Electric, it pretty much doesn't matter what the car is, it's going to turn heads. Especially with the speed an electric motor puts out.
More companies making kits are bringing the prices down.
I guess it takes a day in a shop to convert, probably under ideal circumstances.
Some would say taking a older vehicle and ditching the petrol engine would affect it's market value. I say YES, it would increase it because (assuming the car chassis is in reasonably good condition) you'd have a whole NEW drive train.
The worst part of any restored vehicle is the crap engine belching out eye watering fumes and maintenance. When I see the occasional restored vehicle on the road, I usually cringe and keep a good distance, it doesn't matter how good of job they've done on the paint restoration because I know the tail pipe will be leaving behind major stink.
But, if it were Electric, it pretty much doesn't matter what the car is, it's going to turn heads. Especially with the speed an electric motor puts out.
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
JFYI-
Most battery ranges now are getting 200-300 miles per charge these days.
As for charging there are different levels, but it's not difficult to understand.
Most home chargers use a simple 50 amp electric stove outlet, the same plug that one can plug a 50 amp RV plug into.
And those people who have solar panels on their home can literally be charging their car for FREE.
I've installed that 50 amp outlet before. I've done entire house wiring to code but I have to remember that not everyone has the same experience level.
As long as one has the room and capacity in their circuit box a 50 amp plug is basically the cost of a double pole 50 amp breaker, the 6 gauge wire needed, appropriate box and the NEMA 14-50 outlet. Cost at Home Depot: about $200 depending on how much wire is needed.
Most battery ranges now are getting 200-300 miles per charge these days.
As for charging there are different levels, but it's not difficult to understand.
Most home chargers use a simple 50 amp electric stove outlet, the same plug that one can plug a 50 amp RV plug into.
And those people who have solar panels on their home can literally be charging their car for FREE.
I've installed that 50 amp outlet before. I've done entire house wiring to code but I have to remember that not everyone has the same experience level.
As long as one has the room and capacity in their circuit box a 50 amp plug is basically the cost of a double pole 50 amp breaker, the 6 gauge wire needed, appropriate box and the NEMA 14-50 outlet. Cost at Home Depot: about $200 depending on how much wire is needed.
Those retro conversions are actually very expensive and have a small range so they’re not a very practical choice.
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
#27
Louis, it's probably going to be like most every thing else once this market is refined.
There will be the Custom top of line stuff and
there will be the one-size-fits-all Walmart or EBAY special.
I'm more the latter. lol. I'm cheap/frugile.
I will probably end up getting a kit. I'll hopefully pre-sell the engine in my car to someone who will want to see it running first and will come and disassemble and lift out the engine, remove the tank and muffler.... so I don't have to deal with it,
and then I can install the kit. The only thing I'm really worried about is connecting the motor to ..... the transmission box?
The electric part doesn't phase me.
I don't think I will encounter any shocking scenarios.
I'm just anticipating the surge of excitement once it's done.
Louis, it's probably going to be like most every thing else once this market is refined.
There will be the Custom top of line stuff and
there will be the one-size-fits-all Walmart or EBAY special.
I'm more the latter. lol. I'm cheap/frugile.
I will probably end up getting a kit. I'll hopefully pre-sell the engine in my car to someone who will want to see it running first and will come and disassemble and lift out the engine, remove the tank and muffler.... so I don't have to deal with it,
and then I can install the kit. The only thing I'm really worried about is connecting the motor to ..... the transmission box?
The electric part doesn't phase me.
I don't think I will encounter any shocking scenarios.
I'm just anticipating the surge of excitement once it's done.
Here in California the electric rates have skyrocketed in the past few years, and I understand they will continue to rise. So while an EV might be economical in other parts of the nation, here I sort of kind of doubt it will be any less expensive than a gas powered car.
Unless one gets solar on the roofing, with enough battery storage to charge an EV overnight.
YMMV
Unless one gets solar on the roofing, with enough battery storage to charge an EV overnight.
YMMV
cfz2882
Well-known member
mounting conversion motor-
-to a manual transmission/transaxle will be decently easy if you can fabricate the adaptor plate and shaft coupling - or if those parts are made by someone.-would have been easy for the two small,old skool European cars mentioned
I don't recall if those cars had vacume assist power brakes,but if needed a vac pump and reserve tank could be added.
-to a manual transmission/transaxle will be decently easy if you can fabricate the adaptor plate and shaft coupling - or if those parts are made by someone.-would have been easy for the two small,old skool European cars mentioned
I don't recall if those cars had vacume assist power brakes,but if needed a vac pump and reserve tank could be added.
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
#30
Thanks for that Brendan, hadn't thought of the brakes, power steering, alternator, and AC issues.
Not sure how that would be affected. Not even sure if I have power brakes or steering. Gotta have AC though. And not sure how to do the alternator for the miscl battery.
They say manual tranm. cars are easier and will ultimately be more efficient. Mine is manual. Apparently transmissions aren't even needed in an electric car so..... I don't know if that means I could/should remove that.
Thanks for that Brendan, hadn't thought of the brakes, power steering, alternator, and AC issues.
Not sure how that would be affected. Not even sure if I have power brakes or steering. Gotta have AC though. And not sure how to do the alternator for the miscl battery.
They say manual tranm. cars are easier and will ultimately be more efficient. Mine is manual. Apparently transmissions aren't even needed in an electric car so..... I don't know if that means I could/should remove that.
cfz2882
Well-known member
AC can be done
DC powered AC is avalible these days-BLDC hermetic compressor:12,24,36v etc,no alternator needed-a DC-DC converter is used to keep the accessories batt up-golf cart parts.
DC powered AC is avalible these days-BLDC hermetic compressor:12,24,36v etc,no alternator needed-a DC-DC converter is used to keep the accessories batt up-golf cart parts.
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
How quickly my concerns for one issue are resolved ( the mating of the motor and transmission) and new concerns arise.
Figuring out the power steering, power brakes, AC, and alternator situation.
A copy of my vehicle
Figuring out the power steering, power brakes, AC, and alternator situation.
A copy of my vehicle
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
"DC powered AC is available these days-BLDC hermetic compressor"
It sounds like I'd have to take the car to a shop and have the current compressor evacuated, removed, and have the new compressor installed and charged.
That would make sense.
And no alternator needed. That makes sense too.
It sounds like I'd have to take the car to a shop and have the current compressor evacuated, removed, and have the new compressor installed and charged.
That would make sense.
And no alternator needed. That makes sense too.
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
Electric power steering should mean.... not a big deal.
Probably shouldn't have to do anything because that's most likely powered off the current battery.
Probably shouldn't have to do anything because that's most likely powered off the current battery.
Gas vs electric prices
I mean, it's cheaper to run electric than gas over here.
I don't know Californias gas prices, but it's a very simple calculation, at least in Germany.
I can drive my Polo at about 6l for 100km if I drive efficiently.
A liter of gas is about 1,60€.
So, about 9,60€.
A similar electric car uses about 15-20kWh per 100km.
At the current, state capped power price of 0,40€ per kWh, that's 6-8€.
With ratings in miles to the galon and so forth, it's a bit more difficult.
The average fuel consumption of 2021 vehicles was about 26 miles per gal according to the EPA.
So let's make it 30.
So, lets say 3,3gal per 100mil.
A Hyundai Ioniq 5, one of the fastest charging, but not most efficient car, get somewhere around 3,5 miles per kWh.
So, something like 30kWh per 100 miles.
AAA says average California gas prices are 4,87$ per gal.
That's 16$ and change for 100 milles.
Census data says something like 26 cents per kWh for California, let's say 30.
That's 10$ per 100 miles.
Or the other way around: If gas prices stay consistent, a kWh could cost up to 53 cents and you would stay price equivalent or cheaper with an electric car.
And I don't know how US electric rates work exactly, but over here, once you have a contract, that is limited to one year and for that year, prices are fixed.
So you know exactly how much fueling up costs for the next year.
No timing when and where to go to a gas station and still be playing a bit of roulette with prices.
I mean, it's cheaper to run electric than gas over here.
I don't know Californias gas prices, but it's a very simple calculation, at least in Germany.
I can drive my Polo at about 6l for 100km if I drive efficiently.
A liter of gas is about 1,60€.
So, about 9,60€.
A similar electric car uses about 15-20kWh per 100km.
At the current, state capped power price of 0,40€ per kWh, that's 6-8€.
With ratings in miles to the galon and so forth, it's a bit more difficult.
The average fuel consumption of 2021 vehicles was about 26 miles per gal according to the EPA.
So let's make it 30.
So, lets say 3,3gal per 100mil.
A Hyundai Ioniq 5, one of the fastest charging, but not most efficient car, get somewhere around 3,5 miles per kWh.
So, something like 30kWh per 100 miles.
AAA says average California gas prices are 4,87$ per gal.
That's 16$ and change for 100 milles.
Census data says something like 26 cents per kWh for California, let's say 30.
That's 10$ per 100 miles.
Or the other way around: If gas prices stay consistent, a kWh could cost up to 53 cents and you would stay price equivalent or cheaper with an electric car.
And I don't know how US electric rates work exactly, but over here, once you have a contract, that is limited to one year and for that year, prices are fixed.
So you know exactly how much fueling up costs for the next year.
No timing when and where to go to a gas station and still be playing a bit of roulette with prices.
volvoman
Well-known member
Truthfully? Never.
I get that the government (both local and national) wants to put an end to pollution. But the fact of the matter, is that the technology is not ready for prime time yet.
Don't get me wrong; Mrs. Volvoman and I have casually talked about replacing one of the ICEs...one day. However, we road trip. A lot. Especially during the summer and early/late fall, where we pack up our son, and head down to the Carolinas. Between us, we've got an Altima, a Passat, and an XC70. The Passat usually wins, as we can drive it close to 600 miles before needing to refuel (yes...we're THAT family; we bring a cooler full of food, and only stop if absolutely necessary). Factoring in a bathroom stop (which we use also for fuel), and we can do the drive in about 9 hours.
The only electric cars that we know of - with that kind of range - are the Tesla Model S and the Lucid Air. As we can't afford either, it's a non-starter. Other EVs simply wouldn't work for our lifestyle.
I get that the government (both local and national) wants to put an end to pollution. But the fact of the matter, is that the technology is not ready for prime time yet.
Don't get me wrong; Mrs. Volvoman and I have casually talked about replacing one of the ICEs...one day. However, we road trip. A lot. Especially during the summer and early/late fall, where we pack up our son, and head down to the Carolinas. Between us, we've got an Altima, a Passat, and an XC70. The Passat usually wins, as we can drive it close to 600 miles before needing to refuel (yes...we're THAT family; we bring a cooler full of food, and only stop if absolutely necessary). Factoring in a bathroom stop (which we use also for fuel), and we can do the drive in about 9 hours.
The only electric cars that we know of - with that kind of range - are the Tesla Model S and the Lucid Air. As we can't afford either, it's a non-starter. Other EVs simply wouldn't work for our lifestyle.
None
I have an older Camry Hybrid and love it. It honestly fits the bill perfectly. I have driven it to Florida numerous times and it is fairly easy to get 600 miles per tank and average 38 mpg with multiple people and our things. It is very comfortable, has decent power, and drives great.
However, after adding a 4Runner to the fleet, I don't see myself converting any time soon.
I have an older Camry Hybrid and love it. It honestly fits the bill perfectly. I have driven it to Florida numerous times and it is fairly easy to get 600 miles per tank and average 38 mpg with multiple people and our things. It is very comfortable, has decent power, and drives great.
However, after adding a 4Runner to the fleet, I don't see myself converting any time soon.
