Hypothetical question: Can't 110 volt dryer vents/ fan speed be cut way down?

[harpon]

Yes- but again-

You are posting an image and text about a GAS dryer- and talking as if there's some USUAL amount of heat- and I chose that word instead of "normal"-

when in this dryer on 120 volt current- there's almost NO heat- nothing HOT - just a little bit WARM- well UNDER cutoff temp-

and then still- in the discussions about how much air is drawn from the heat source in some "airtight" system- there is that large gaping hole at the top of the heating duct- the silver tube on the right in the photo above- It CAN"T POSIIBLY be an airtight vacuum-

"If air is allowed to leak in through any point other
than the heat source, drying efficiency is greatly
affected"- well there IS the leak- manufactured right in, and currently covered with duct tape on my own unit- now two drying loads on 120v on-

The temp of the drum is the issue- barely warm air is reaching the clothes on 120, yet still being vented by the same apparatus, in the same volume and velocity, as the air heated by a 240 element on a 240 model- just doesn't make sense or bespeak of a concern for efficiency-

Look at the reviews at Sears, where these units still sell for twice what the asian units go for- the same complaint is often heard- "no heat, too long drying time" for the 120 volt unit.

Theres simply not enough heat here to "cause hot spots or premature failure" just the reverse

I know this is an age when we want to have faith in the corporations and their decisions and policies, but sometimes we have to realize that these decisions are sometimes based on their need to turn out product faster, and not on the changing needs of the consumjer or social landscape- which grows more mobile and crowded.

Years ago, Whirlpool/Kenmore decided to vent the 240 and 120 volt units the same way, despite a variance in heat input. I simply think that was a manufacturing- based decision and not a consumer oriented one.

Back when I got a degree in Journalism in the late '70's, there was still more a thing known as "consumer reporting" where this very type of issue likely got more discussion and credence, but these days an internet mob is more apt to jump to corporate defense out of political correctness.

Issues of safety are not that appropriate and a bit over-concerned here I think, if you actually felt the temps here. Frankly, the automatic "MR. SAFETY!!" responses are slightly annoying- when as I tried to imply in my title- I'm just thinking hypothetically and tinkering here and there when I can easily do so.

What would actually be more appropriate for this unit on 120 volt power is a smaller blower fan to move the lesser heat out at a slower rate, and maybe I should be getting some big dollars from Whirlpool to make that happen,

instead of having thugs surround my dwelling to keep me from discussing THE WEATHER on the internet, which has indeed been the case.

anyway, good luck.

 

[harpon]

And another thing I'm bothered by- the BLOWER FAN.
Seems like it would be incredibly easy to have it removable from the BACKSIDE alone, WITHOUT taking the machine all the way apart, front and back.

Very SUSPICIOUS in my mind at least- too stupid actually to be just an oversight.
They don't want that changed or serviced easily- perhaps you;ll just buy new again!

But then like I said- I've been a bicycle person- over 40 years to really know the nuts and bolts and see the trends-

and the oil driven corporate conglomerate has been defecating all over cycling in so many ways, YES- I have more a distrust of it.

 

[thefixer]

Doesn't matter whether it's gas or electric. Essentially the same diagram and wording is used in their documentation on electric dryers. The holes in your heater box are not "leaks". They are intake vents. If you read again, you will see where it says a portion of the air pulled into the cabinet is heated by the heat source and is mixed with the remainder of the air that is pulled in via the vents of the diffuser. If you place your hand over your "holes", you won't feel any air "leaking" out because it is being pulled in. The blower pulls air through the machine and only pushes air out the exhaust vent. Many of these dryers have multiple heat settings with no change in airflow. The typical full sized dryer has an air exchange of 100-150cfm with larger dryers up to 230cfm. The cfm is based on the dryer drum and venting system sizes, not how hot the air gets. During the first part of the drying cycle, most of the heat is absorbed by the wet clothes which is why when in auto dry cycle, the timer doesn't even advance initially as the air entering the blower housing is not even hot enough to cycle the operating thermostat.

 

[thefixer]

Something you have overlooked is lint buildup. The minimum duct air velocity should be at least 1,200 feet per minute to keep lint moving through the vent, as per UL code requirements. For a 4" diameter pipe, this requires 105cfm of air flow. Whirlpool documentation states that the exhaust air flow of any Whirlpool produced dryer at maximum rated vent length is at least 105cfm with maximum air flow at 230cfm.

 

[harpon]

This dryer needs less venting on 120 volts.

Save some energy, save some money and save some time.

There seems to be less lint on less heat.

tell "U eL" I'm not,
and so very glad to not be eligible for military evils Dean Wormer

 

[foraloysius]

I'm flabbergasted. Everyone here tells you you shouldn't reduce the airflow in the dryer and still you persist.

If you hang laundry outside, it dries quicker in colder, dryer weather with more wind, than in warmer, more humid weather with less wind. Drying is heat x airflow x time. It's that simple. Lowering the airflow means more of one of the other factors, which mean if you don't add more heat (a bigger heating element) you will need more time to dry. And more time means a higher electricity usage.

 

[thefixer]

"Anybody with any experise or thoughts about dryer venting vs. element power operating temperature, and voltage?"

You have been given good corroborating advice but had apparently already made up your mind regarding your theory, so whats the point???

 

[harpon]

The point is I can think and experiment for myself- now even with a good bit of data from a machine I have in my possesion.

Forgive me if I take your expertise with a grain of salt, but I've had people telling me I can't lower the strings of my violin without paying a luthier and argued with people over Global Warming who don't watch a half dozen radar and satellite images every day, monitor the Mississippi water levels, or frequently search info on the Austrailian Drought or the Sierra snowpack.

Yes- this thread started out with the lable "hypothetical question"
and a few days ago I had a lot less insight to the nature of what stood before me

But there are two factors here that keep me making the same statements like:

"This dryer needs less venting on 120 volts.

Save some energy, save some money and save some time.

There seems to be less lint on less heat."

I lived for three years in Needles California out in the desert- I could put a t-shirt outside to dry- against rental corporation policy I might add- and it would be dry in 15 minutes on the calmest of 115 degree days- it's easy for you to make these broad statements about heat v. airflow- but where exactly is your proof? Power company affiliated Mr. Roper of the Westinghouse slave wage bondage? I'm sorry if you don't think he's more interested in taking back your wages while you blame your taxes, but my trust isn't so great.

At best, I'm talking about a design that has been in service and changed little in 50 years, so maybe time itself is simply catching up to the little Kenmore in a world much changed around it, The first energy crisis was a mere 40 years back after all.

I have the machine in front of me and testing it- I can see the change in the coil, but not the ducts or blower, I can read the reviews at Sears and I can see the drying time and even open the door to check the temperature (Is there any manual that insists I wear a flameproof NOMEX racing suit that's been NASCAR approved? Some internet expert somewhere might tell me that- nothing personal, it's the landscape here)

I can feel the level of humidity in the room, feel the stream of air and see the lintless floor behind the unpiped exhausted vent

And it all may be VERY GOOD-

IN FACT it may be what people want- Because I'll tell you this : You probably don't need an outside vent in most of the country for most of the year if you're not sitting next to the mnachine on the toilet the lengthy time it's drying, because there's not enough heat or steam or lint to worry about. COOL!

But I'll bet SOMEONE then would say THAT was wrong too. I have to have a vent! It's CODE somehow! Because you're more concerned with expressing the common base of knowledge you believe you have, than to what I'm saying NOW (and not days ago here)

YES- I have a basic distrust of things corporate these days, and horror stories I could tell- but not here- to back them up plenty. And that's above and beyond the thoughts I said earlier that sometimes corporations make decisions based on levels of production- these particular ones being decades and decades ago,.

If I end up cutting the velocity of air coming out the back now- I'm VERY convinced it WILL cut the drying time, without danger, but it might increase the need to external pipe the unit again too and that might not be good.

If it was stil heating up with 240 volts- I'd more likely feel you MIGHT BE RIGHT in your opinion, but not at 120 volt levels. That's still my opinion with the machine here-

I'm not talking about any other models, I couldn't- THIS one I've researched and used. You can't enforce your opinion onto my experience, just because someone writing of things in general said something contrary in some generalized policy. You are sort of assuming the machine was engineered to perfection to begin with, while I see it more as a cheap adaptation. Lower your Jane Eyre Austin Sensibilities please! You still may be right, but you can't enforce my considered opinion- Time will tell, if I tinker more. Don't be too "flabergasted" by my "theory" folks, I have the machine here with me to test, while yours is more the theory.

I am grateful to have this machine and happy I didn't sell it for $40 last summer- I'd paid $75 two years ago It's still very much drying on 120, although I had only occasion to use it several times before I got a larger 240 volter to replace it in the garage, so I wish I had a better feel for how it actually did on more power. I want maybe smaller machines indoors and that nasty situation with the 240 volt outlet frying itself last month really tilted me toward using 110 power in the house- call me Mr. Safety if you will!

Yet I wouldn't buy one of these new now these datys in 120 especially- it's almost $600 new while you can get an even slightly larger cubic foot asian machine that weighs half as much for half the money.

I'll be installing a new heater element in a week or two., so I'll have the back off again. And I'l take a closer look at the blower housing and duct- I may likely try to decrease the flow by getting air into the duct by spacing- drilling the duct would be more radical- and any changes to the fan almost irreversible, but I may see how easily the fins may grind- doubt I'll go that route-

but now I've simply got an idea- a short-gap fix- I could in fact simply impede the vent at the end for testing purposes only- a sliver of air, and I may try to vary any gap I might open between the duct and the drum just to see if I can hear or sense what pressure there is there. It wouldn't be any final solution- and measuring any percentage of loss is pure speculation, I'm thinking 20 to 40 percent wouldn't really be too much, so I could guess 20 and then double it later if I need to. If you're right about airflow to that extent, then I wouldn't go further, but my gut feeling is that this dryer could vent less heat and still be getting rid of the mositure just as fast.

I may cover part of the lintscreen with some foil, as a test as well, but independently of other manipulation. It's so GIGANTIC that I could probably cover two thirds with aluminum and not reduce airflow that much- depending on the duct pressure- if it's really sucking hard a 4 inch diameter circle of volume will still vent about as fast, only with more velocity at the lint trap. I think it would still trap the small amount of lint too- The two loads I've done have seen very sparse lint, If most of it were still be in the clothes and I'd never know it. But if I sucseed in raising the heat, and there's more lint, then YOUR theory about that is wrong too.

Anyway, can't believe I'm wasting this much time on this- simpy intrigued a bit now- try some simple things and go from there.

 

[eronie]

???

Where is the new Hide Members Posts Box ?

 

[thefixer]

Well...you made me laugh...so at least, I got something out of your diatribe.

 

[combo52]

Yes Nancy you gave us all a good laugh

But I think your high point in mechanical engineering was dumping rocks in the oil tank, LOL.

 

[harpon]

Yes- go back and talk among your Springer selves-

I've got things to learn and discuss

and self-absorbed authority to

deny.

I'll report back on whatever I do and find later

while the blowhards will just sell you the machine they stopped working on about the time the Super Bowl came along......

LOL- U pop!

 

[arbilab]

I'm sorry dear, but despite the best intentions of so many people who actually know things you remain so determined to be so wrong about so many things there is nothing left to say but make sure your fire extinguisher is fully charged and your insurance is paid up.

 

[harpon]

It was Barbara Boxer who said: "Fear and intimidation have always been part of the Reagan/Bush administration"

Pay your higher power bill to General 240 and the ever consumer friendly Corporate Conglomerate-
And I'm sure the fire danger is more on twice the voltage
they may actually have a mind (and a percieved financial interest) to encourage,

but don't blame others for your taxes, where you at least have some return and security for your investment, and who keep alive some of those not on the payroll of w hirlpool.

If you felt the laundry in this machine after 30 minutes you logically might feel different, but YOU are the ones whose minds seem to be as closed as this dryer vent is open-

and too often the way of the internet "expert" I think

Pooh Pooh on, air trafic controllers...

 

[harpon]

I'm not really going to keep beating on this until I've actually done some more testing- and in fact- that may never even really happen- I do have other things in my life than worrying over improving something that some else gets paid over.

But I'm back with one more comment- I believe I lost track of time drying the first load and realized it that night after posting on it-

I was fixing dinner and watching Mr. Sell Fridge at the same time,

the drying time was actually more like an hour and fifteen minutes, not one hour.
Believe it or not, that's the way it was, and that's the guage I'll use when I compare any testing I might do.

The more data between the better I think, so I'm IN no hurry.

I really believe the drying time for the same volume of clothing could safely be cut to perhaps 45-50 minutes on 120 v power, whether I achieve it wilth this older design I wasn't paid for when I was ten years old, or not,

and then that's very more competitive with other dryers drawing arc welder 240 volt power. Don't let those 240 lines arc!

 

[thefixer]

Obviously, you don't know how a dryer works. 240 volts is not power. In a normal full size 240 volt dryer, the heat is not on all the time. There is a thermostat that cycles the heat on/off to maintain proper temperature. Trying to run a full size dryer on 120 volts is going to result in the heater being on a lot longer if not always on as it's not likely to get the heat up high enough to cycle the thermostat so you may very well end up using as much power (voltage AND current) with your 120 volt jerry-rig as you would with 240 volts. Normal compact 120 volt dryers don't have to heat up as much volume and their cycling thermostat operates at a lower temperature than a full size dryer. Reading reviews of compact dryers, the consensus is that it takes 2 to 2 1/2 times as long to do a load as compared to a full size 240 volt dryer. Minimum air flow requirements are the same for compact models as they are for full size models.