Some appliances have an onboard surge supressor of sorts ... may be called a line filter or line conditioner.
I really like the look of the new Whirlpool Front Loaders
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Some appliances have an onboard surge supressor of sorts ... may be called a line filter or line conditioner.
washerdude
Well-known member
You must be talking about Bens Appliance and Junk, I watch him all the time!
I remember 2 years ago, we had a horrible storm - probably the worst one I've ever experienced. This storm knocked down power lines, streetlights and downed trees.
Around 10:30 AM that Saturday morning I put in a load of towels in my LG WM4370, unknowing that a storm was going to hit.
Well 30 minutes later the washer was on an intermittent spin cycle between a rinse ramping up right as the storm outside was also ramping up. I went to check on the unit while it was spinning, floor vibrating from it and simultaneously due to the storm beginning to reach its peak outside, the overhead lights also began to flicker on and off, power rapidly cycling on and off quickly. That happened about 4-5 times in a row before we completely lost power, the machine was on during that...
The power returned at around 5:30 PM but in between we would get brief spikes of power for mere seconds before going out again. When the power returned at 5:30 PM, I started the washer back up and the unit picked up where it left off prior to the power outage. 15-20 minutes later there was a loud explosion in the distance...a transformer blew, power was out right as the machine was entering the end of the final rinse, at this point the power did not come back until the next day.
The next day, when the power returned every single appliance and electronic item was fine, even the LG washer to this day continues to function just fine and hasn't had a single issue even after going through something like that.
No appliances plugged into any surge protector other than electronics like computers, tv, modem etc.
So I do think these appliances have some sort of in line suppressor or filter. I've always thought about plugging it into a Tripp Lite Isoblock but it's just one thing that keeps leaving my mind (LOL). Will have to keep trying! But ultimately I think i'm going to have to look into a whole home surge protector instead.
I remember 2 years ago, we had a horrible storm - probably the worst one I've ever experienced. This storm knocked down power lines, streetlights and downed trees.
Around 10:30 AM that Saturday morning I put in a load of towels in my LG WM4370, unknowing that a storm was going to hit.
Well 30 minutes later the washer was on an intermittent spin cycle between a rinse ramping up right as the storm outside was also ramping up. I went to check on the unit while it was spinning, floor vibrating from it and simultaneously due to the storm beginning to reach its peak outside, the overhead lights also began to flicker on and off, power rapidly cycling on and off quickly. That happened about 4-5 times in a row before we completely lost power, the machine was on during that...
The power returned at around 5:30 PM but in between we would get brief spikes of power for mere seconds before going out again. When the power returned at 5:30 PM, I started the washer back up and the unit picked up where it left off prior to the power outage. 15-20 minutes later there was a loud explosion in the distance...a transformer blew, power was out right as the machine was entering the end of the final rinse, at this point the power did not come back until the next day.
The next day, when the power returned every single appliance and electronic item was fine, even the LG washer to this day continues to function just fine and hasn't had a single issue even after going through something like that.
No appliances plugged into any surge protector other than electronics like computers, tv, modem etc.
So I do think these appliances have some sort of in line suppressor or filter. I've always thought about plugging it into a Tripp Lite Isoblock but it's just one thing that keeps leaving my mind (LOL). Will have to keep trying! But ultimately I think i'm going to have to look into a whole home surge protector instead.
launderess
Well-known member
Whiffy washing machines
Think what many fail to appreciate is that with h-axis washing machines some amount of water remains in sump after cycles are complete. Thus even drying off boot won't prevent growth of icky things if door is closed after wash day. This effect is likely multiplied for those who do warm water rinsing.
Dishwashers also have water remaining in sump after cycles are done. There various means of circulating air have long been devised. Everything from vents to IIRC active fan/air circulating systems. This because obviously one isn't going to leave a dishwasher door open between cycles to interior of machine can air out and residual moisture evaporate.
Even with commercial washers that don't have pumps but simply drain valves can have issues if doors are shut up after wash day. One notices this because attendants at local laundromat are famous for shutting machine doors as part of cleaning place before closing. Almost at once one notices condensation beginning to form on inside surface of glass porthole.
Think what many fail to appreciate is that with h-axis washing machines some amount of water remains in sump after cycles are complete. Thus even drying off boot won't prevent growth of icky things if door is closed after wash day. This effect is likely multiplied for those who do warm water rinsing.
Dishwashers also have water remaining in sump after cycles are done. There various means of circulating air have long been devised. Everything from vents to IIRC active fan/air circulating systems. This because obviously one isn't going to leave a dishwasher door open between cycles to interior of machine can air out and residual moisture evaporate.
Even with commercial washers that don't have pumps but simply drain valves can have issues if doors are shut up after wash day. One notices this because attendants at local laundromat are famous for shutting machine doors as part of cleaning place before closing. Almost at once one notices condensation beginning to form on inside surface of glass porthole.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
Interesting about the LG / storm story... We had a storm one night at midnight that was raging and lasted 2 hours non-stop.. crazy winds, lightning, extreme rain...and my duet was mid-cycle when it started...I literally went and stopped it, and unplugged it...and I remember being on the phone with internet tech support during that time as well before the storm even started...
Not to change the subject of this thread... but I came across this video.. This guy hates his GE front loader... I want you guys to LOOK at this dispenser design.. OH MY GOD... start the video about 1:21 and go from there.. It explains what he was smelling...and I didn't get the vibe that he was a laundry sinner...
I watched another one of his videos that lead me to that video...He was reviewing his washer a couple of years ago as that vid was 2 years old...he demostrated the normal cycle... I gotta tell ya, watching that wash portion of that normal cycle, I don't ever think I've EVER seen a front loader use that little bit of water.. again, maybe because we all know the normal cycles on machines can be stingy..
Not to change the subject of this thread... but I came across this video.. This guy hates his GE front loader... I want you guys to LOOK at this dispenser design.. OH MY GOD... start the video about 1:21 and go from there.. It explains what he was smelling...and I didn't get the vibe that he was a laundry sinner...
I watched another one of his videos that lead me to that video...He was reviewing his washer a couple of years ago as that vid was 2 years old...he demostrated the normal cycle... I gotta tell ya, watching that wash portion of that normal cycle, I don't ever think I've EVER seen a front loader use that little bit of water.. again, maybe because we all know the normal cycles on machines can be stingy..
Interesting thread
Most appliances have built in surge protectors built in on the boards or ahead of the boards, the small inexpensive surge protectors that you plug things into aren't proven to do much good and can cause failures themselves and be fire hazards as well. ( be careful where you place them and what is around them in case they melt or burn.)
You're much better off putting a whole house surge protector in if you're concerned.
As a whirlpool dealer, we have not seen evidence of large numbers of failures of control boards on whirlpool front load or top load, washers or dishwashers for that matter certainly no more than other brands, the big exception to this statement is GE dishwashers in the past 10 years have had a ton of board failures.
As far as recirculating water in a front load washer, it's certainly fun to watch, and it probably speeds up the cycle a little bit, it does have the drawback of bringing the dirty gunk up from the sump and dumping it over your clothing, so the manufacturers use it judiciously to keep from getting too much gunk ,sediment and lint back in the clothing.
It also adds an additional reliability, problem, and expensive repair potential to washing machines Frigidaire Electrolux front loaders have three pumps in them for example, it's a lot of extra problems potentially.
I will stick with my Speed Queen front loader with one pump to drain the water out the machine does a beautiful job cleaning And even when I max out the settings it's still only about 65 minutes with two washes and three rinses.
John
Most appliances have built in surge protectors built in on the boards or ahead of the boards, the small inexpensive surge protectors that you plug things into aren't proven to do much good and can cause failures themselves and be fire hazards as well. ( be careful where you place them and what is around them in case they melt or burn.)
You're much better off putting a whole house surge protector in if you're concerned.
As a whirlpool dealer, we have not seen evidence of large numbers of failures of control boards on whirlpool front load or top load, washers or dishwashers for that matter certainly no more than other brands, the big exception to this statement is GE dishwashers in the past 10 years have had a ton of board failures.
As far as recirculating water in a front load washer, it's certainly fun to watch, and it probably speeds up the cycle a little bit, it does have the drawback of bringing the dirty gunk up from the sump and dumping it over your clothing, so the manufacturers use it judiciously to keep from getting too much gunk ,sediment and lint back in the clothing.
It also adds an additional reliability, problem, and expensive repair potential to washing machines Frigidaire Electrolux front loaders have three pumps in them for example, it's a lot of extra problems potentially.
I will stick with my Speed Queen front loader with one pump to drain the water out the machine does a beautiful job cleaning And even when I max out the settings it's still only about 65 minutes with two washes and three rinses.
John
<blockquote>Think what many fail to appreciate is that with h-axis washing machines some amount of water remains in sump after cycles are complete.</blockquote> I've surely not seen them all but I've not yet seen any washer or dishwasher that doesn't retain some water in the pump/sump/drain hose. I suppose commercial frontloaders with a dump valve instead of a pump and some early dishwashers with same don't retain any.
panasonicvac
Well-known member
Mark
I just saw the videos of the GE you linked. And I gotta say, wow. I was interested in a GE front loader until not only I saw the dispenser tray but also the normal cycle wash. It reminds me of the Electrolux I used before which I hated and one of the reasons is the amount of water it used. Huge deal breaker to me. My LG uses WAY more water than either machine on normal cycle. So far no issues with the detergent dispenser but I won't be using that anymore once I switch back over to using powder. However, I just quit using vinegar in the fabric softener dispenser because it has been leaking. I hope it's not broken or there's some buildup that needs to be cleaned up. The bleach dispenser does the same thing as well. I'm gonna have to take a closer look at it but if that is a common problem on LG washers, then I may have to consider looking into something else instead but now I doubt it'd be a GE.
I just saw the videos of the GE you linked. And I gotta say, wow. I was interested in a GE front loader until not only I saw the dispenser tray but also the normal cycle wash. It reminds me of the Electrolux I used before which I hated and one of the reasons is the amount of water it used. Huge deal breaker to me. My LG uses WAY more water than either machine on normal cycle. So far no issues with the detergent dispenser but I won't be using that anymore once I switch back over to using powder. However, I just quit using vinegar in the fabric softener dispenser because it has been leaking. I hope it's not broken or there's some buildup that needs to be cleaned up. The bleach dispenser does the same thing as well. I'm gonna have to take a closer look at it but if that is a common problem on LG washers, then I may have to consider looking into something else instead but now I doubt it'd be a GE.
Whiffy Washers
Some of that moisture will also be absorbed and retained by the residue from liquid detergents etc that gets left stuck to the outside of the drum and insides of the tub after the wash, because some of the common ingredients found in liquid detergents are hygroscopic, such as glycol and glycerin. It provides a medium containing moisture and food for odour producing bacteria to grow in.
Also a biofilm coating on the back of the drum is also the main cause of corrosion of the aluminium spider.
I suspect the main benefit of using powder, is most sold in the UK at least contain oxygen bleach, which kills most of the bacteria growing in the machine in every wash.
Surge Protection.
----- ----------
I think any modern washing machine with a microcontroller is likely to have a MOV and other surge protection typically found in any switch mode power supply on the circuit board. The mains filter's purpose is to stop RF interference generated by the motors etc, traveling up the cable into the mains supply and affecting other appliances. I had one explode in a 1980s microtronic machine, and it worked on for years without issue with it removed and bypassed.
I've fixed 3 electronics failures in washing machines we've had since the 1980s. The first was a failed microcontroller (long before the mains filter exploded), I believe this was a known issue with the early microcontroller used in it (not sure, but I think it might have been a 4-bit Texas Instruments one), the replacement board used a different chip (that was about all there was on the board as the replacement didn't need external transistors) and lasted many years until we scrapped the machine. The second was a failed Triac, if my memory serves me right, I think it was the motor speed control one, and my current machine had a stuck/"welded" reversing relay after 14 years of use. The last two at least aren't caused by mains surges, but are likely some of the more common failures.
Some of that moisture will also be absorbed and retained by the residue from liquid detergents etc that gets left stuck to the outside of the drum and insides of the tub after the wash, because some of the common ingredients found in liquid detergents are hygroscopic, such as glycol and glycerin. It provides a medium containing moisture and food for odour producing bacteria to grow in.
Also a biofilm coating on the back of the drum is also the main cause of corrosion of the aluminium spider.
I suspect the main benefit of using powder, is most sold in the UK at least contain oxygen bleach, which kills most of the bacteria growing in the machine in every wash.
Surge Protection.
----- ----------
I think any modern washing machine with a microcontroller is likely to have a MOV and other surge protection typically found in any switch mode power supply on the circuit board. The mains filter's purpose is to stop RF interference generated by the motors etc, traveling up the cable into the mains supply and affecting other appliances. I had one explode in a 1980s microtronic machine, and it worked on for years without issue with it removed and bypassed.
I've fixed 3 electronics failures in washing machines we've had since the 1980s. The first was a failed microcontroller (long before the mains filter exploded), I believe this was a known issue with the early microcontroller used in it (not sure, but I think it might have been a 4-bit Texas Instruments one), the replacement board used a different chip (that was about all there was on the board as the replacement didn't need external transistors) and lasted many years until we scrapped the machine. The second was a failed Triac, if my memory serves me right, I think it was the motor speed control one, and my current machine had a stuck/"welded" reversing relay after 14 years of use. The last two at least aren't caused by mains surges, but are likely some of the more common failures.
GE and water recirculation
I don't understand why GE didn't use water recirculation in any of their front load offerings. To me, it would make more sense to saturate the clothes more quickly during wash and rinse.
I don't understand why GE didn't use water recirculation in any of their front load offerings. To me, it would make more sense to saturate the clothes more quickly during wash and rinse.
launderess
Well-known member
Recirculation only becomes important and or necessary when h-axis washers don't fill with enough water to do without such things.
Many years ago now recall an industry publication that stated domestic front loading washing machines need some sort of recirculation system if water levels drop too low.
Spray/jet/recirculating or whatever you want to call them aren't new. Zanussi had it ages ago, in fact IIRC they invented the thing.
For wetting down laundry fast and so on such systems are great I suppose. But when it comes to rinsing opinions vary.
Until sump is clear such recirculating systems will regurgitate whatever mucky or froth laden water is down there, at least for part of fill. If after enough rinses sump is clear (hopefully) so will be rinses.
Personally one prefers something along lines of Umimac's "OptiSpray" which does spray rinses and also helps with fills, but no recirculation.
https://unimac.com/product/washer-e...nce-hardmount-washer-extractor/45lb-capacity/
https://unimac.com/technology/optispray/
Many years ago now recall an industry publication that stated domestic front loading washing machines need some sort of recirculation system if water levels drop too low.
Spray/jet/recirculating or whatever you want to call them aren't new. Zanussi had it ages ago, in fact IIRC they invented the thing.
For wetting down laundry fast and so on such systems are great I suppose. But when it comes to rinsing opinions vary.
Until sump is clear such recirculating systems will regurgitate whatever mucky or froth laden water is down there, at least for part of fill. If after enough rinses sump is clear (hopefully) so will be rinses.
Personally one prefers something along lines of Umimac's "OptiSpray" which does spray rinses and also helps with fills, but no recirculation.
https://unimac.com/product/washer-e...nce-hardmount-washer-extractor/45lb-capacity/
https://unimac.com/technology/optispray/
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
That GE front loader....when I watched the normal cycle...the wash was extremely low... I can deal with that so I waited for the rinses...only to see the rinses were slightly better, but not much better than the wash... that's what BUGS me.. Maybe other cycles on it are different..
@panasonicvac - ELUX - I've watched those wash/rinse and talked to people about them that own them in youtube comments... they LOVE them... I hardly ever have someone that says they hate them...I was talking to someone about pure rinse. She said that with that selected, it uses 3 rinses, with the last rinse bypassing the dispenser altogether... and filling with more water than the other two rinses.. so I'm not sure what's UP with the ELUX you had....It sounds like something was majorly wrong with it... If ONLY they would add a drain pump door... I mean, they add on on their smaller 2.4 cubic foot washers... so obviously they are aware that it should be on every washer.... so I don't know what's up with that...
The GE front load washers (the lower two models) have a more water button. Someone in the comments said it uses significanctly MORE water...but the TOL model doesn't not have a more water button "go figure"
About that dispenser: I'm not sure if taking the entire dispenser out like I do mine and leaving it on top of the washer after doing laundry would even stop that from happening.. Maybe? I know simply leaving the door opened is not enough.. I take mine out, dump remaining water... and sometimes I even wipe the inside of the dispenser out...
@panasonicvac - ELUX - I've watched those wash/rinse and talked to people about them that own them in youtube comments... they LOVE them... I hardly ever have someone that says they hate them...I was talking to someone about pure rinse. She said that with that selected, it uses 3 rinses, with the last rinse bypassing the dispenser altogether... and filling with more water than the other two rinses.. so I'm not sure what's UP with the ELUX you had....It sounds like something was majorly wrong with it... If ONLY they would add a drain pump door... I mean, they add on on their smaller 2.4 cubic foot washers... so obviously they are aware that it should be on every washer.... so I don't know what's up with that...
The GE front load washers (the lower two models) have a more water button. Someone in the comments said it uses significanctly MORE water...but the TOL model doesn't not have a more water button "go figure"
About that dispenser: I'm not sure if taking the entire dispenser out like I do mine and leaving it on top of the washer after doing laundry would even stop that from happening.. Maybe? I know simply leaving the door opened is not enough.. I take mine out, dump remaining water... and sometimes I even wipe the inside of the dispenser out...
panasonicvac
Well-known member
The Lux was brand new, it replaced a Crosley which I liked WAY much better. And I tried all that I could to make the Lux work better from the cycles, wasn't satisfied. I also hated that the socks would get stuck on the drum seal. And it was ridiculously noisy during the spin cycles. I remember seeing from Consumer Reports that the Lux I had was ranked the worst front loader from the list, normally I don't agree with their picks but this one I did think they got right.
I was able to open up the dispenser since I was thinking about it earlier today and there wasn't much buildup to be the culprit but I did however noticed that it has a crack in the dispenser housing. That explains why I've been noticing leak marks from the side of my machine once in a while. I don't know how that happened but I'm gonna try to seal it up for now cause I don't want to replace it at the moment. Maybe that's what's causing the vinegar and bleach to leak out.
I was able to open up the dispenser since I was thinking about it earlier today and there wasn't much buildup to be the culprit but I did however noticed that it has a crack in the dispenser housing. That explains why I've been noticing leak marks from the side of my machine once in a while. I don't know how that happened but I'm gonna try to seal it up for now cause I don't want to replace it at the moment. Maybe that's what's causing the vinegar and bleach to leak out.
Recirculating pumps
"Until sump is clear such recirculating systems will regurgitate whatever mucky or froth laden water is down there, at least for part of fill."
Don't forget modern washing machines without a recirculation pump will have a valve such as a ball float to close off the sump to stop detergent going to waste, so any muck or froth that might try to settle out will get churned up by the rotating drum back into suspension in the wash water and find its way back into the drum around the door seal and through the holes and get sloshed over the washing. So no better or worse in that respect than a machine with a recirculating pump, where the filter, if you can call it that, will only remove coarse debris bigger than a couple of mm or so that might damage the pump, and pump it back over the washing.
As I've mentioned in another thread, the recirculating pump was my reason for getting a Zanussi Jet System, after a poor experience with the previous Hotpoint.
The Zanussi will get the washing wet through in probably about a couple of rotations of the drum from when the pump starts, and probably about the same even on one of its two Eco cotton programmes, which reduce the water level saving electricity heating it, but add about an extra hour to the wash to make up for the lower water level, while only saving a couple of hundred watt hours (0.2kwh) of electricity, due to it having an old fashioned universal (brushed) motor, rather than a more efficient inverter drive one and also has a horribly inefficient shaded pole motor recirculating pump.
I think having a recirculating pump also does a better job of dissolving and distributing the detergent.
The Hotpoint which was around a 2002 machine, so used a fair bit less water than my previous machines but nowhere near as little as current models could take most of the washing phase just getting the load wet when washing near a full load. The water level only got high enough to saturate the outer layer of the washing in the drum, and the drum which is of course a fair bit smaller than you have in US machines, so with it 3/4 full to the top with dry washing there would be virtually no movement other than a very slight dropping as the drum turned, so the only way the washing at the centre would get wet is from water dripping out the wet washing when the drum stopped to reverse. It would eventually reach the point when there was enough weight from wet washing for the load to slump down and the clothing would finally start to tumble and get properly wet through and move around in the drum so it could wash properly.
It could still be adding water as it soaked up into the washing almost up to the end of the wash stage. I got into the habit of pouring a jug of water over the washing in the middle before starting the wash so the added weight would get the items to move around from the start, which made a huge difference to its cleaning performance.
So I'd be reluctant to buy a modern machine that didn't have a recirculation pump, given their even more stingy water usage.
"Until sump is clear such recirculating systems will regurgitate whatever mucky or froth laden water is down there, at least for part of fill."
Don't forget modern washing machines without a recirculation pump will have a valve such as a ball float to close off the sump to stop detergent going to waste, so any muck or froth that might try to settle out will get churned up by the rotating drum back into suspension in the wash water and find its way back into the drum around the door seal and through the holes and get sloshed over the washing. So no better or worse in that respect than a machine with a recirculating pump, where the filter, if you can call it that, will only remove coarse debris bigger than a couple of mm or so that might damage the pump, and pump it back over the washing.
As I've mentioned in another thread, the recirculating pump was my reason for getting a Zanussi Jet System, after a poor experience with the previous Hotpoint.
The Zanussi will get the washing wet through in probably about a couple of rotations of the drum from when the pump starts, and probably about the same even on one of its two Eco cotton programmes, which reduce the water level saving electricity heating it, but add about an extra hour to the wash to make up for the lower water level, while only saving a couple of hundred watt hours (0.2kwh) of electricity, due to it having an old fashioned universal (brushed) motor, rather than a more efficient inverter drive one and also has a horribly inefficient shaded pole motor recirculating pump.
I think having a recirculating pump also does a better job of dissolving and distributing the detergent.
The Hotpoint which was around a 2002 machine, so used a fair bit less water than my previous machines but nowhere near as little as current models could take most of the washing phase just getting the load wet when washing near a full load. The water level only got high enough to saturate the outer layer of the washing in the drum, and the drum which is of course a fair bit smaller than you have in US machines, so with it 3/4 full to the top with dry washing there would be virtually no movement other than a very slight dropping as the drum turned, so the only way the washing at the centre would get wet is from water dripping out the wet washing when the drum stopped to reverse. It would eventually reach the point when there was enough weight from wet washing for the load to slump down and the clothing would finally start to tumble and get properly wet through and move around in the drum so it could wash properly.
It could still be adding water as it soaked up into the washing almost up to the end of the wash stage. I got into the habit of pouring a jug of water over the washing in the middle before starting the wash so the added weight would get the items to move around from the start, which made a huge difference to its cleaning performance.
So I'd be reluctant to buy a modern machine that didn't have a recirculation pump, given their even more stingy water usage.
Samsung Plant
Is in Newberry, SC. I was visiting the area and the hotel I stayed at was right next door to it. Just off of I26. There is a plant next door to it that makes wire harness assemblies for them too.
Is in Newberry, SC. I was visiting the area and the hotel I stayed at was right next door to it. Just off of I26. There is a plant next door to it that makes wire harness assemblies for them too.
The whole talk about water in the sump being recirculated and impeding rinse results always sounded odd to me.
Let's say the sump of any machine at the end of a drain keeps 2l or 2 quarts of water.
Even a medium size 8lbs load of cottons keeps at least 4 quarts of water before being spun.
Thus the water in the sump is almost 100% replaced by the water extracted from the laundry - and thus is basically always at the same level of suds content as the laundry.
8lbs of laundry spun at 1000rpm in an EU FL keeps 60% residual moisture.
That's 4.8lbs of water, or a bit more than 2qts.
And further, a typical fill for a single rinse is 10qts give or take for such a load.
So yeah, it is some additional rinse load - but especially at higher loads not really that significant.
Further adding that some designs don't run the recirculating pump during the rinse until the last rinse cycle, and that becomes a smaller issue than it might seem.
But on the other hand, you can do almost anything a washer with recirculation can without it as well.
As long as there is some water reaching into the drum, the lifters and laundry will cause some natural circulation.
A recirculation system will do it just way faster.
It's the same way microwaves cook quicker.
If you just go from the outside in, you have to go through all the matter first - be that heat in cooking or water through a tightly packed wash load.
Add some injection right into the center and it spreads way faster.
Let's say the sump of any machine at the end of a drain keeps 2l or 2 quarts of water.
Even a medium size 8lbs load of cottons keeps at least 4 quarts of water before being spun.
Thus the water in the sump is almost 100% replaced by the water extracted from the laundry - and thus is basically always at the same level of suds content as the laundry.
8lbs of laundry spun at 1000rpm in an EU FL keeps 60% residual moisture.
That's 4.8lbs of water, or a bit more than 2qts.
And further, a typical fill for a single rinse is 10qts give or take for such a load.
So yeah, it is some additional rinse load - but especially at higher loads not really that significant.
Further adding that some designs don't run the recirculating pump during the rinse until the last rinse cycle, and that becomes a smaller issue than it might seem.
But on the other hand, you can do almost anything a washer with recirculation can without it as well.
As long as there is some water reaching into the drum, the lifters and laundry will cause some natural circulation.
A recirculation system will do it just way faster.
It's the same way microwaves cook quicker.
If you just go from the outside in, you have to go through all the matter first - be that heat in cooking or water through a tightly packed wash load.
Add some injection right into the center and it spreads way faster.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
I wonder what the odds are of seeing some of the cycles of this new whirlpool washer? First, people will buy them... but will one of those buyers be a YouTuber who likes to film cycles? I wonder what the odds are on that? I'd say, not that great. I think it's gonna be a while...I mean, at this point, the manufacturers should just do it... sort of like theme parks do with their roller coasters... Give us official POV as if we're riding the coaster..so we not only get pictures or a description.. but can actually SEE what happens so we can decide if we want it.. There is NO way I would buy a front load washer now without having seen the various cycles. I wouldn't just "trust" that it works..
washerdude
Well-known member
Side Note - Balancing Rings Anyone?
Does anybody know why Whirlpool stopped using balancing rings after the Alpha series?
Does anybody know why Whirlpool stopped using balancing rings after the Alpha series?
platform
What platform is this Whirlpool based off of?
What platform is this Whirlpool based off of?
to mark_wpduet...
I hate when manufacturers just expect you to trust that their product works. What happened to user guide videos?
I hate when manufacturers just expect you to trust that their product works. What happened to user guide videos?
I’ll say this
People don’t follow them, as all they think is “water i out water in, power in done
People don’t read science, hell my mum always uses a quick wash for all her laundering needs
People don’t follow them, as all they think is “water i out water in, power in done
People don’t read science, hell my mum always uses a quick wash for all her laundering needs
quick wash for everything
I wouldn't use a quick wash for everything, as I don't feel that clothes come out clean adequately. I use the cycle according to what I'm washing.
I wouldn't use a quick wash for everything, as I don't feel that clothes come out clean adequately. I use the cycle according to what I'm washing.
AI wash
I don't like the AI wash as it takes away common sense and knowledge on how to do your laundry properly. What happened to plain old common sense? Today's society is just getting more stupid when it comes to laundry. No thank you. I may sound cranky about this, but I just want to wash my clothes the proper way, no questions asked!
How hard is it to sort properly and set the correct cycles?
I don't like the AI wash as it takes away common sense and knowledge on how to do your laundry properly. What happened to plain old common sense? Today's society is just getting more stupid when it comes to laundry. No thank you. I may sound cranky about this, but I just want to wash my clothes the proper way, no questions asked!
How hard is it to sort properly and set the correct cycles?
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
I mean yea... I get that...
But... from the AI cycles I've seen, at least on the LG's with turbo wash, the rinses blew me away... Some guy used AI wash jeans cycle with no extra rinse...The rinse was amazing...after the interim spin, it slowed but didn't stop as it filled with water...kept spinning/filling...the spin slightly increased (still filling).. It almost reminded me of a clean washer cycle yet with clothes in the drum...LOL
finally - it stopped and did normal tumbling with turbo wash with water sloshing all over the place. When it started to drain, I noticed how LONG it took to drain...like 20 seconds. I'm thinking, wow, even my Duet doesn't take that long to drain water so this used way more water than even my Duet.
I'm not sure what AI does in laundry. I havent' read up about it but I would assume it can learn? Although I don't know if it knows that a user used too much detergent, only chooses one rinse... would it then say "Hey wait a minute, we need to rinse again" Something a human might not be able to eyeball.. I don't know
But... from the AI cycles I've seen, at least on the LG's with turbo wash, the rinses blew me away... Some guy used AI wash jeans cycle with no extra rinse...The rinse was amazing...after the interim spin, it slowed but didn't stop as it filled with water...kept spinning/filling...the spin slightly increased (still filling).. It almost reminded me of a clean washer cycle yet with clothes in the drum...LOL
finally - it stopped and did normal tumbling with turbo wash with water sloshing all over the place. When it started to drain, I noticed how LONG it took to drain...like 20 seconds. I'm thinking, wow, even my Duet doesn't take that long to drain water so this used way more water than even my Duet.
I'm not sure what AI does in laundry. I havent' read up about it but I would assume it can learn? Although I don't know if it knows that a user used too much detergent, only chooses one rinse... would it then say "Hey wait a minute, we need to rinse again" Something a human might not be able to eyeball.. I don't know
Mark, what you are describing the rinse for Normal cycle--and is the first rinse if extra rinses arre selected. I've watched this rise sequence and it leaves a lot to be desired as the only rinse because it doesn't fully drainafter the initial sequence of the rinse. It adedss more water and rinses and then drains. And there's lot of detergent left behind. Always add at least one extra rinse. This is actually my least favorite cycle to use for regular types of loads.
washerdude
Well-known member
Can confirm, my 2018 WM4370 does the exact same thing you described. I swear it uses more water on the rinse than my 2014 Whirlpool WFW72.
I myself also add an extra rinse to most loads. Smaller loads however, I just opt for the 1 default rinse.
If I recall correctly, Maytag Neptunes also did a version of this during the final rinse.
On my 2014 Whirlpool i'd usually fill the detergent cup anywhere from line 1 to line 2 for larger loads. On my LG, most of the time I use a tablespoon and good god does that clean up like nobodies business.
With regards to the Whirlpool Alpha platform, I think it stopped being produced either late 2018 or mid 2019. After this point these models were replaced by "What to Wash/How to Wash" front loaders from Whirlpool.
Personally, I felt that the Alpha platform front loaders were superior to the newer ones. They seemed to operate so much smoother.
Alpha Series:
What to Wash/How to Wash:
FYI, it's not a 1-1 comparison but it's the closest I could find.
I myself also add an extra rinse to most loads. Smaller loads however, I just opt for the 1 default rinse.
If I recall correctly, Maytag Neptunes also did a version of this during the final rinse.
On my 2014 Whirlpool i'd usually fill the detergent cup anywhere from line 1 to line 2 for larger loads. On my LG, most of the time I use a tablespoon and good god does that clean up like nobodies business.
With regards to the Whirlpool Alpha platform, I think it stopped being produced either late 2018 or mid 2019. After this point these models were replaced by "What to Wash/How to Wash" front loaders from Whirlpool.
Personally, I felt that the Alpha platform front loaders were superior to the newer ones. They seemed to operate so much smoother.
Alpha Series:
What to Wash/How to Wash:
FYI, it's not a 1-1 comparison but it's the closest I could find.
powerfin64
Well-known member
Bob-
It's my least favorite also. You described it perfectly.
Mark, you have a lot to learn about new LG washing machines.
Bob and myself have the same model machines. I know what cycles I like and dislike, and Bob knows what cycles he likes and dislikes, and fairly sure we agree on some things cycle and option wise.
Until you can understand how AI works, you'll be overwhelmed by the concept of it and its actions. It's not for everyone.
It's my least favorite also. You described it perfectly.
Mark, you have a lot to learn about new LG washing machines.
Bob and myself have the same model machines. I know what cycles I like and dislike, and Bob knows what cycles he likes and dislikes, and fairly sure we agree on some things cycle and option wise.
Until you can understand how AI works, you'll be overwhelmed by the concept of it and its actions. It's not for everyone.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
Bob - it wasn't the normal cycle. I kind of remember you talking about that... this was the jeans cycle... And it spun/spray rinsed before the actual rinse started.. I'm not sure what you mean by "doesn't fully drain after the first sequence of the rinse" I'm guessing you mean after the interim spin, when it starts filling with water...nothing gets drained at all? Am I confused? It sounds like you're saying it should drain part of the rinse water in the first rinse? Had this person chose extra rinse which I always would choose anyway.. I guess it would have just been a regular rinse... I will never EVER use any cycle without extra rinse... I'm so used to my duet doing a total of 3 rinses that's what I would shoot for...I'm not sure what that clakety sound is during the interim spin before the rinse
and that whirlpool Kirk Posted...that was like Bob said... boring watching paint dry compared to the LG... I really really hope the new whirlpools aren't as bad as that... Kirks videos... I'm really surprised there wasn't soap loaded and bubbles everywhere... all the videos I've watched of Kirk's washers he always uses way way WAYYY to much soap.
and that whirlpool Kirk Posted...that was like Bob said... boring watching paint dry compared to the LG... I really really hope the new whirlpools aren't as bad as that... Kirks videos... I'm really surprised there wasn't soap loaded and bubbles everywhere... all the videos I've watched of Kirk's washers he always uses way way WAYYY to much soap.
powerfin64
Well-known member
Mark- Jeans cycle is 1 one many "downloaded" cycles, that you can ONLY access from your phone, and is 1 of some renamed cycles. AI can't be turned off, with only a few acceptations. Why does it do that sequence with some cycles? Email LG and ask.
<blockquote>If I recall correctly, Maytag Neptunes also did a version of this during the final rinse.</blockquote> Referring to spinning up a bit during the final rinse to swirl water around the drum and boot, I believe that was a revision added in response to complaints of gunk in the tub boot. Early models didn't do it.
From what I remember, there are many downlloadable cycles and most of them are based on the Normal cycle. Only differences are changes in default soil level or water temperature.
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