I really like the look of the new Whirlpool Front Loaders

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Recirculation only becomes important and or necessary when h-axis washers don't fill with enough water to do without such things.

Many years ago now recall an industry publication that stated domestic front loading washing machines need some sort of recirculation system if water levels drop too low.

Spray/jet/recirculating or whatever you want to call them aren't new. Zanussi had it ages ago, in fact IIRC they invented the thing.



For wetting down laundry fast and so on such systems are great I suppose. But when it comes to rinsing opinions vary.

Until sump is clear such recirculating systems will regurgitate whatever mucky or froth laden water is down there, at least for part of fill. If after enough rinses sump is clear (hopefully) so will be rinses.

Personally one prefers something along lines of Umimac's "OptiSpray" which does spray rinses and also helps with fills, but no recirculation.

https://unimac.com/product/washer-e...nce-hardmount-washer-extractor/45lb-capacity/

https://unimac.com/technology/optispray/

 
That GE front loader....when I watched the normal cycle...the wash was extremely low... I can deal with that so I waited for the rinses...only to see the rinses were slightly better, but not much better than the wash... that's what BUGS me.. Maybe other cycles on it are different..

@panasonicvac - ELUX - I've watched those wash/rinse and talked to people about them that own them in youtube comments... they LOVE them... I hardly ever have someone that says they hate them...I was talking to someone about pure rinse. She said that with that selected, it uses 3 rinses, with the last rinse bypassing the dispenser altogether... and filling with more water than the other two rinses.. so I'm not sure what's UP with the ELUX you had....It sounds like something was majorly wrong with it... If ONLY they would add a drain pump door... I mean, they add on on their smaller 2.4 cubic foot washers... so obviously they are aware that it should be on every washer.... so I don't know what's up with that...

The GE front load washers (the lower two models) have a more water button. Someone in the comments said it uses significanctly MORE water...but the TOL model doesn't not have a more water button "go figure"

About that dispenser: I'm not sure if taking the entire dispenser out like I do mine and leaving it on top of the washer after doing laundry would even stop that from happening.. Maybe? I know simply leaving the door opened is not enough.. I take mine out, dump remaining water... and sometimes I even wipe the inside of the dispenser out...
 
The Lux was brand new, it replaced a Crosley which I liked WAY much better. And I tried all that I could to make the Lux work better from the cycles, wasn't satisfied. I also hated that the socks would get stuck on the drum seal. And it was ridiculously noisy during the spin cycles. I remember seeing from Consumer Reports that the Lux I had was ranked the worst front loader from the list, normally I don't agree with their picks but this one I did think they got right.

I was able to open up the dispenser since I was thinking about it earlier today and there wasn't much buildup to be the culprit but I did however noticed that it has a crack in the dispenser housing. That explains why I've been noticing leak marks from the side of my machine once in a while. I don't know how that happened but I'm gonna try to seal it up for now cause I don't want to replace it at the moment. Maybe that's what's causing the vinegar and bleach to leak out.

panasonicvac-2024120901002906832_1.jpg
 
Recirculating pumps

"Until sump is clear such recirculating systems will regurgitate whatever mucky or froth laden water is down there, at least for part of fill."

Don't forget modern washing machines without a recirculation pump will have a valve such as a ball float to close off the sump to stop detergent going to waste, so any muck or froth that might try to settle out will get churned up by the rotating drum back into suspension in the wash water and find its way back into the drum around the door seal and through the holes and get sloshed over the washing. So no better or worse in that respect than a machine with a recirculating pump, where the filter, if you can call it that, will only remove coarse debris bigger than a couple of mm or so that might damage the pump, and pump it back over the washing.

As I've mentioned in another thread, the recirculating pump was my reason for getting a Zanussi Jet System, after a poor experience with the previous Hotpoint.

The Zanussi will get the washing wet through in probably about a couple of rotations of the drum from when the pump starts, and probably about the same even on one of its two Eco cotton programmes, which reduce the water level saving electricity heating it, but add about an extra hour to the wash to make up for the lower water level, while only saving a couple of hundred watt hours (0.2kwh) of electricity, due to it having an old fashioned universal (brushed) motor, rather than a more efficient inverter drive one and also has a horribly inefficient shaded pole motor recirculating pump.

I think having a recirculating pump also does a better job of dissolving and distributing the detergent.

The Hotpoint which was around a 2002 machine, so used a fair bit less water than my previous machines but nowhere near as little as current models could take most of the washing phase just getting the load wet when washing near a full load. The water level only got high enough to saturate the outer layer of the washing in the drum, and the drum which is of course a fair bit smaller than you have in US machines, so with it 3/4 full to the top with dry washing there would be virtually no movement other than a very slight dropping as the drum turned, so the only way the washing at the centre would get wet is from water dripping out the wet washing when the drum stopped to reverse. It would eventually reach the point when there was enough weight from wet washing for the load to slump down and the clothing would finally start to tumble and get properly wet through and move around in the drum so it could wash properly.

It could still be adding water as it soaked up into the washing almost up to the end of the wash stage. I got into the habit of pouring a jug of water over the washing in the middle before starting the wash so the added weight would get the items to move around from the start, which made a huge difference to its cleaning performance.

So I'd be reluctant to buy a modern machine that didn't have a recirculation pump, given their even more stingy water usage.
 
Samsung Plant

Is in Newberry, SC. I was visiting the area and the hotel I stayed at was right next door to it. Just off of I26. There is a plant next door to it that makes wire harness assemblies for them too.
 
The whole talk about water in the sump being recirculated and impeding rinse results always sounded odd to me.

Let's say the sump of any machine at the end of a drain keeps 2l or 2 quarts of water.
Even a medium size 8lbs load of cottons keeps at least 4 quarts of water before being spun.
Thus the water in the sump is almost 100% replaced by the water extracted from the laundry - and thus is basically always at the same level of suds content as the laundry.

8lbs of laundry spun at 1000rpm in an EU FL keeps 60% residual moisture.
That's 4.8lbs of water, or a bit more than 2qts.

And further, a typical fill for a single rinse is 10qts give or take for such a load.
So yeah, it is some additional rinse load - but especially at higher loads not really that significant.
Further adding that some designs don't run the recirculating pump during the rinse until the last rinse cycle, and that becomes a smaller issue than it might seem.

But on the other hand, you can do almost anything a washer with recirculation can without it as well.
As long as there is some water reaching into the drum, the lifters and laundry will cause some natural circulation.
A recirculation system will do it just way faster.

It's the same way microwaves cook quicker.
If you just go from the outside in, you have to go through all the matter first - be that heat in cooking or water through a tightly packed wash load.
Add some injection right into the center and it spreads way faster.
 
I wonder what the odds are of seeing some of the cycles of this new whirlpool washer? First, people will buy them... but will one of those buyers be a YouTuber who likes to film cycles? I wonder what the odds are on that? I'd say, not that great. I think it's gonna be a while...I mean, at this point, the manufacturers should just do it... sort of like theme parks do with their roller coasters... Give us official POV as if we're riding the coaster..so we not only get pictures or a description.. but can actually SEE what happens so we can decide if we want it.. There is NO way I would buy a front load washer now without having seen the various cycles. I wouldn't just "trust" that it works..
 
AI wash

I don't like the AI wash as it takes away common sense and knowledge on how to do your laundry properly. What happened to plain old common sense? Today's society is just getting more stupid when it comes to laundry. No thank you. I may sound cranky about this, but I just want to wash my clothes the proper way, no questions asked!
How hard is it to sort properly and set the correct cycles?
 
I mean yea... I get that...

But... from the AI cycles I've seen, at least on the LG's with turbo wash, the rinses blew me away... Some guy used AI wash jeans cycle with no extra rinse...The rinse was amazing...after the interim spin, it slowed but didn't stop as it filled with water...kept spinning/filling...the spin slightly increased (still filling).. It almost reminded me of a clean washer cycle yet with clothes in the drum...LOL

finally - it stopped and did normal tumbling with turbo wash with water sloshing all over the place. When it started to drain, I noticed how LONG it took to drain...like 20 seconds. I'm thinking, wow, even my Duet doesn't take that long to drain water so this used way more water than even my Duet.

I'm not sure what AI does in laundry. I havent' read up about it but I would assume it can learn? Although I don't know if it knows that a user used too much detergent, only chooses one rinse... would it then say "Hey wait a minute, we need to rinse again" Something a human might not be able to eyeball.. I don't know
 
Mark, what you are describing the rinse for Normal cycle--and is the first rinse if extra rinses arre selected. I've watched this rise sequence and it leaves a lot to be desired as the only rinse because it doesn't fully drainafter the initial sequence of the rinse. It adedss more water and rinses and then drains. And there's lot of detergent left behind. Always add at least one extra rinse. This is actually my least favorite cycle to use for regular types of loads.
 
Can confirm, my 2018 WM4370 does the exact same thing you described. I swear it uses more water on the rinse than my 2014 Whirlpool WFW72.

I myself also add an extra rinse to most loads. Smaller loads however, I just opt for the 1 default rinse.

If I recall correctly, Maytag Neptunes also did a version of this during the final rinse.

On my 2014 Whirlpool i'd usually fill the detergent cup anywhere from line 1 to line 2 for larger loads. On my LG, most of the time I use a tablespoon and good god does that clean up like nobodies business.

With regards to the Whirlpool Alpha platform, I think it stopped being produced either late 2018 or mid 2019. After this point these models were replaced by "What to Wash/How to Wash" front loaders from Whirlpool.

Personally, I felt that the Alpha platform front loaders were superior to the newer ones. They seemed to operate so much smoother.

Alpha Series:


What to Wash/How to Wash:


FYI, it's not a 1-1 comparison but it's the closest I could find.
 
Bob-

It's my least favorite also. You described it perfectly.

Mark, you have a lot to learn about new LG washing machines.
Bob and myself have the same model machines. I know what cycles I like and dislike, and Bob knows what cycles he likes and dislikes, and fairly sure we agree on some things cycle and option wise.
Until you can understand how AI works, you'll be overwhelmed by the concept of it and its actions. It's not for everyone.
 
Bob - it wasn't the normal cycle. I kind of remember you talking about that... this was the jeans cycle... And it spun/spray rinsed before the actual rinse started.. I'm not sure what you mean by "doesn't fully drain after the first sequence of the rinse" I'm guessing you mean after the interim spin, when it starts filling with water...nothing gets drained at all? Am I confused? It sounds like you're saying it should drain part of the rinse water in the first rinse? Had this person chose extra rinse which I always would choose anyway.. I guess it would have just been a regular rinse... I will never EVER use any cycle without extra rinse... I'm so used to my duet doing a total of 3 rinses that's what I would shoot for...I'm not sure what that clakety sound is during the interim spin before the rinse

and that whirlpool Kirk Posted...that was like Bob said... boring watching paint dry compared to the LG... I really really hope the new whirlpools aren't as bad as that... Kirks videos... I'm really surprised there wasn't soap loaded and bubbles everywhere... all the videos I've watched of Kirk's washers he always uses way way WAYYY to much soap.

 
Mark- Jeans cycle is 1 one many "downloaded" cycles, that you can ONLY access from your phone, and is 1 of some renamed cycles. AI can't be turned off, with only a few acceptations. Why does it do that sequence with some cycles? Email LG and ask.
 
 
<blockquote>If I recall correctly, Maytag Neptunes also did a version of this during the final rinse.</blockquote> Referring to spinning up a bit during the final rinse to swirl water around the drum and boot, I believe that was a revision added in response to complaints of gunk in the tub boot.  Early models didn't do it.
 

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