Induction Electric Cooking

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toggleswitch

toggleswitch

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Joined
Apr 12, 2005
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Location
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Induction Electric Cooking- all the benfits of electric:
Fater, cleaner, safer,cooler

..and most of the benfits of gas:
Instant respose, Instant on and off (but still not visual.)

Said to be more efficient too.

(P.S.) (some?)IKEA inexpensive SS pots are magnetic and would work.

http://www.vikingrange.com
 
Couldnt find it on the website?

Induction must be making a come back. I think it was GE who introduced their Magnawave range to great fanfare back in the late 70's and write ups gushed about this new type of cooking plus the most important testimonial of all.. Cher had one LOL.
I remember seeing them demo'd at the Home Show, water a boiling whilst a Kraft Caramel sat unperturbed only inches away from the "burner". I guess most people though impressed weren't that willing to fork over the high purchase cost because it never really took off. After all inflation was rampant then. I can't remember if the Magnawave preceded GE's Versatronic with the microwave feature built into the regular oven.
Countertop induction hotplates are readily available in most Chinatown or Asian appliance stores from makers like Hitachi and Sanyo and aren't too expensive, handy little gadgets if you cook a lot or take to a cottage.
 
I have an induction cooktop and can't wait to remodel my kitchen to accomodate it. Jon (jetcone) has one in his kitchen and it's awesome! He had a GE 30" version a year ago and is now using a Kenmore model. Mine is a GE 36", found at the Habitat for Humanity Store and worked perfectly.

I love this method of cooking - completely clean, cooler, safer and more responsive than radiant. If you're frying something messy, you can lay a sheet of newspaper over the cooktop, fry away and when finished - roll up the newspaper and toss it out. Stainless/magnetic pans are required, my All-Clad is perfect but I'll still have to have one coil unit to use my Whirleypop!
 
Very interesting! Can anyone explain exactly how this works? Also does it produce a large electromagnetic field around the unit while it's on? (This could be a risk of frying computer memory devices nearby.)
 
At one time there was concern that the induction cooker could generate a feild strong enough to disrupt a pecemaker-pacemakers are better sheilded now.Would be a worry though.There is a warning sign posted at the tx site I work at regarding pacemakers-that the RF here could disrupt them.The induction cooker works by a coil(the "burner")A RF energy is fed into the burner coil-that "induces" a current flow into a steel pan or one containg iron or steel.-and causing the pot to heat to cook your food placed into the pan.The induction stove works on the same principle as induction heater and furnaces used in industry to melt iron,steel,metal alloys,refining metal alloys(the induction generater can "induce" its energy into a "work coil" placed in the vacuum chamber -the coil is around the crucible of the material to be melted)Semiconducter manufacturing uses induction heaters to melt silicon and germanuim for semiconducter making.Another household example of an induction heater is the newest Braun electric razor cleaner used with their newer shaver-instead of a fan blowing across the razor head after the cleaner is pumpted thru it- a minature induction coil induces RF energy into the shaver head to heat it and cause it to be dried.The in duction cookers and heaters work on the "transformer principle" the pan or pot is a secondary winding -in the case of industrial heaters-the work coil induces energy into a crucible or metal to be heated or melted.Its a fascinating process-industrial heaters can generate megawatts of power.Also these are used to heat crucibles used in synthetic gemstone manufaturing-ex Cubic Ziconia and synthetic rubies and Beryl "cats-eye" stones.
 
Safety

IMHO-

Microwave ovens were well feared/revered when they came out. I'm still not sold on their safey. However the benefits they provide seem to outway the perceived/actual risk. They are used for 4 minutes at a time. Everyone has one. Literally even my grandmother! Basically now they say just don't stare into one... so where do we now mount them? Over the stove at eye-level. Go figure.

Just as with cell phones (called "Mobile" elsewhere) there is a 3 watt max. limit because they are KNOWN to fry the brain.
A woman has her purse. But for a man, pants (trouser) pockets fry your .. uh the next generation... the jacket pocket is near one's heart and the belt hook probably fries the kidneys. Still, everyone has one....

Now I'm guessing here, But I think Europe has lotsa induction cooking, and the healty risks of RF and EMF (electo-magnetic fields) is accepted as real there. Here there is COMPLETE denial that there is such an issue but we still don't use induction. I'm so confused. LOL

Listen, if you live in a brick house there is no (solar and environmental, natural) radiation for years, then it is given off faster when "full" Live in a glass house and get it all along the way.

Most of the world would NEVER eat or allow the additives and artifical colors in food the US does. Not to mention prservatives and pesticides.

So I REFUSE to worry about induction cooking. In my own littel simple world the pan absorbs it all and turns it into heat. The automatic shut off when no pan is present is enough of a safety feature to me!
 
I don't worry about the EMF RF feilds either-In my work as a radioman I am exposed to RF feilds almost daily.Even climed on "hot" AM broadcast towers to fix the tower light box on the tower.Had the AM medium RF going thru me and was radiating just like the tower!You just put the wood ladder at the tower base and climpb on-Now this is not allowed by OSHA.When I was done on that tower-just jumpted off when I got to the base.Even "played with" the RF at small stations-one 250W station was fun to play with the RF.Like I would hold a flourescent bulb in one hand and touch the station tower with the other-and light the bulb-same as with OA2 gas regulator tubes-they lit nicely!I don't have fears of the induction cooker-just mentioning some folks were concerned-I did have GREAT respect for RF feilds from FM and VHF and UHF TV-those can fry you internally just like a microwave-same with high powered satellite uplink transmitters-in fact these have a warning light on the top of the dish warning people it is energised and radiating.I also used the RF feild from an FM isocoupler to "light" a flourescent bulb so I could work on a base mounted tower lighting box-a "cordless" trouble light!You could feel your hand "heat up" if you put it in that feild.Also was interesting to slide a flourescent bulb along the transmission line to observe the high RF voltage points from the standing wave ratio-the antenna at the time had high VSWR.Fried a couple of transmitter tubes.-and caused the isocoupler to arc over-tripping the transmitter off-would have to reset it.
 
Needless to say, most of us around here should never try messing with high-powered RF systems; we don't have Tolivac's training & experience to do it safely.

Okay, so induction cooking sounds like a good idea, with heat being generated in the material of the cooking vessel itself (rather than on the burner). From what I read on the website (thanks, Toggleswitch) seems to me that the energy savings vs. conventional electric cooking comes in terms of rapid heating of the vessel, and lack of "waste heat" after the element is turned off. That is, you don't get the lag times of conventional electric elements, so the energy waste due to those lags is eliminated. And, as a direct result, you get the responsiveness of a gas cooker in terms of adjusting the heat level quickly.

Here in California, much of our electricity supply is dependent on natural gas, so any electric cooking is in effect gas cooking one step removed. Over time that is going to change as the natural gas supply peaks along with oil. Those problems will (hopefully) be solved by building more nuclear and wind power.

I didn't have time to check the manufacturer links, so I'm still wondering: what is the cost of a 2-element module, or even a 1-element free-standing unit?
 
Despite "playing with" the low powered RF-the high powered stuff can fry you.I do have a RF burn scar from a time I did get careless.Getting burned by Medium wave AM is worse than being burned by fire.The RF cauterizes the nerves in the wound-you don't feel it when you get burned.After a few days or so when the nerve grow back-it then hurts a lot.The RF switcher I got my hand too close to was in a 10Kw AM station.You had to manually clip the dummy to the Tx you wanted to test.After that a RF swiching contactor was installed right away so no one else would get burnt.I am not "magnetic"-yet. Just wonder if I will die from some strange disease.I also carry a cell phone as well.I did that work under old rules-under new saftey regs the towers have to be denergised and grounded.Even a denergised ungrounded tower or antenna is VERY dangerous.The voltages they can collect can be lethal.I would not get on any towers that were in 50Kw AM arrays.These are lethal.Thats why those tower feilds are fenced and warning signs posted on them.Thats been an FCC and OSHA rules for years.I don't climb towers anymore-the box was about 8ft and another was about 20ft up.You can spot AM towers in the fenced feilds-the tower rests on a ceramic "base insulator" and the guy cables have insulators in them(if they are steel rope)So the guys won't pick up the energy from the tower and "reradiate" it spoiling the systems pattern.also the AM tower guys are now made of a plastic rope material called "Phyllistran"I don't know what the plastic in it is-but can be as strong or stronger than steel rope-and just as sunlight resistent.The FM (or rarely TV) antenna isocoupler is an RF isolation transforemr allowing the FM transmitter to safely feed an FM antenna mounted on an AM tower.since the tower is "hot" with the AM RF from the AM transmitter-the isocopler keeps the AM out of the FM xmiiter and vice-versa.The FM antennas are side mounted and have many individual antennas on them known as "bays" to get the apprioate antenna gain and pattern.TV asntenna are top mounted on towers-mostly the tower is just for the TV antenna-looks like a "stick" mounted on the top-Low band(Ch2-5)) have large elements called "batwings" that are the antenna elements.Me and my friends have become antenna and tower spotters-neat to try to indentify them.
 
HoHo-Tolivac-love reading about this stuff.

I also haven't seen these induction ranges for a while; thought to myself they would be the way to go. Can you or anyone else also tell me what happened to the electric ranges with the European style "hob" rather than the coil? I have only seen a few of these around and apparently they are not being sold anymore. I liked the way these looked.
 
HOBS

WP & KA & Magic Chef had them here... for about 5 minutes

If your think an ordinary (in US) coil is not quick & responsive.. .you should see these cast-iron "Hobs" function.
(They were the euro-std for decades, I believe.)

I was told they have some massive heat-retention and that you would select your "final" deired heat setting at first and dare not move it. [Isn't most cooking done on "HI" (till something boils or sizzles) then "medium", then up or down from there? --but I digress.] I can see how hobs got annoying.

I have heard that you need to toss a wet towel over the hob to cool it quicky (I probably would not try this!!)

This may explain why smooth-tops (called vitro-ceram, elsewhere) caught on across the pond quite fast and is pretty std. in europe already.

I think sales of smooth-tops has finally out-paced cois in this county as of lately, as the price has fallen. If I may be so bold ..I think this is possible because (at least some) of US manufacturers us SCHOTT-Ceran (German) "Glass"
 
Re: Asian and Portable induction cookers

Quite powerful at 2800 wts to say the least. That's the first thing I thought of: ideal for use at buffets especially during sunday brunch cooking all those omelets. The one I go tto (ok I admit at the "Holidome") uses those little bottled propane burners and I guess that they could be dangerous not only from fire but fumes. I used to see those hobber stoves by Kenmore (made by someone else) quite a bit at those mom and pop grocery stores in the rural areas-around here most have a grill and deep fryer as well. Since I never used one I didn't know the pros and cons of them. Thanks for sharing-David
 
De Dietrich Induction hob (europe)

I have an induction hob (cooktop) from De Dietrich wouldn't swap it for any other form of cooking it's far more responsive and powerful than gas.

You need to use Stainless steel (good quality) or cast iron (enamel) cookware. The thicker the pot base the more even the cooking temprature!

Hob specs:
Model: DTI309X
Size: 90CM wide
Touch controls (at front of hob in glass)
Cooking zones:
Front Right: Power 3200W (23CM diameter)
Front Left: Power 2200W (16CM diameter)
Back Right: Power 3200W (23cm diameter)
Back Left: Power 3200W (23cm diameter)
Extra large zone: 3600W (28 CM)
Power levels per zone: 15
Presets: 5
timers: 5

Safety: cookware sensor, temprature limiter, anti-overflow, control lock, Automatic Stop system, Residual heat indicator.

Total power consumption 10,800W (intelligent power management prevents you from going above this by turning down one zone as you turn up another!)
Connection: 2 circuits: 1x32A + 1 x 16A 230V 50Hz
OR: 3-phase 4-wire 400V 50Hz connection.
 
3-phase 4-wire 400V 50hz

Is this normally found in residences in your neck of the woods?

Is it:
hot to hot = 400V ???
hot to neutral =230v ???

"Ova Hiya"
120/208v 3-phase 4-wire is usually commercial.
120/220v single phase 3-wire is usually residential.
277/480v is usually for commercial lighting and hard-wired loads (but not outlets /powerpoints)
 
3 Phase

In AU we have 3phase 500V 63A, its just a big roung plastic connector, about 7cm in diameter. This would be used for big welders, lathes, compressors, large objects like that.

Quite often you push the plug in and screw it on.

its not the Norm, but its not unusal in a residential setting, especially as Ducted A/C becomes more popular, that runs on 250V 3phase power.
 
Thanks Nathan

I'm guessing that "Ducted A/C" is "Down Unda" for "Central Air Conditioning?" and maybe electric resistance heat?

What's pitiful is that apts in NY City (sick of hearing that yet?)were allowed 'till recently (and maybe still)to have ONLY 110/220 40a main service, assuming of course that cooking was gas and heat and hot water are lanlord-supplied gas or fuel-oil. [All of which are pretty standard.]
 
European supplies are pretty much all 3 phase originally. 4 wires run either along the road overhead (becoming much less usual) or underground (usually) 3xphases(hots) and 1 neutral.
Each home, typically, takes one phase + neutral. Each house taking a different phase to spread the load.

If 3-phase is required it's only a matter of hooking up a 4 wire rather than a 2 wire supply.

230V 50hz from phase to neutral.
400V 50hz from phase to phase.

3 phase is used for large domestic (fixed) appliances like stoves, ovens and even some washers and dryers! However, it varies from country to country.

Also, you may find that he panel is supplied with 3 phase, and all of the final circuits are provided with phase+neutral 230V except for perhaps the stove.

3 phase tends to be more common in residential settings in continental europe than in the UK for a variety of reasons e.g. the use of Air Conditioning and more powerful heating systems.

The UK will tend to run 32 or 45A single phase circuits to stoves etc where as in France you might find a smaller 3-phase hook up capable of delivering the same power.

In terms of safety, 3-phase is generally used only for fixed appliances and in the countries where it is common place the wiring regs sorrounding it are extremely strict.

Also, any outlet (regardless of wheather it's single of 3 phase) is required to be protected by an RCD (GFCI) once it's rated less than 32Amps.

Are you sure it's 500V 3-phase in Australia?

The original european standards:

All of Europe (including Ireland) 220V single phase 380V 3phase.
UK : 240V single phase / 415V 3-phase.

That was harmonised to 230V single phase / 400V 3-phase.

I would have assumed that Australia tended to follow UK trends and would have used 240/415 moving to 230/400. Given that it's a pretty small market and being out of step with Europe would seriously limit the range of appliances and industrial 3-phase equipment available.
(EU (CENELEC) standards tend to be mirrored in almost all countries that use 220-240V 50hz just as US NEC standards are generally mirrored in countries using 110-125V 60Hz systems)
 
US Power Supply

Sounds mighty familiar except we now use a 3-wire supply (minimun)to all residences with hot to neutral 110-120v. This voltage is for most light and general-duty plug-and-cord connected loads and lighting.

220-240V is used for high-wattage (heating-type) appliances --> A/C, central heating, hot water heaters, stoves, dryers (where all but the smallest electric dryers are 5,000+ watts, 30a)

Air-conditioners are available from 5,000 to 14,000+/- Btu/h (one to three room units) for 110-120v. More powerful units are (10,000 Btu/h & up (2 rooms and larger) and use 220-240v.

Most appliances except refrigeration can handle 208V that is seen on 3-phase systems without a problem. Refrigeration, however needs to be rated for 208v (and slightly less) or it won't start either during normal periods or during voltage-reduction brown-outs when our supply grid is overwhelmed due to demand.
 
I've never really come across a brownout situation over here. The voltage's always pretty rock solidly stable.

I get the impression that because of heavy public investment into the power grids in europe, they do tend to be a tad more stable and not quite so over-stretched.

Although, that's starting to change!
 
In the 70's

In the US during the energy crisis we had so many brownouts that Frigidaire started stocking a new part and number for their 1-18 washers, it was an add on capacitor to help level out the voltage drop if the machine kicked into spin/drain during a brownout!! I have seen many 1-18's retrofitted with the capacitor placed in the control consol beside the timer.

We still have wild voltage fluctuations, and I have had to put line conditioners on all my embroidery machines at work to keep the supply level for the electronics.

jet
 

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