Integrated look appliances

[dj-gabriele]

A question for the guys in the Americas/Australia/Africa/Asia but for the interested European too!

I have noticed in the years that many of your appliances aren't integrated in the kitchen cabinets but are all free standing and I was curious to know how did this habit came up.
It feels completely different from Europe (my direct experience goes for UK, Italy, Germany, Sweden, France) where most appliances are integrated.

Around here having a not integrated stove is considered most of the times as having a cheap unit or a cheap replacement, unless one goes for outrageously expensive free standing professional models, same but on a less extent goes for the refrigerator, most of the time it it built-in unless one goes for a replacement or "American" style side by side unit.
Also when it comes thinking about dishwashers I almost never seen one that had the same panels of the kitchen but most are either white, black or stainless steel, even if they're integrated in the cabinets. Around here is commonplace to disguise the unit as a cabinet so all the controls are hidden.

That was just a thought and I think it would be a nice idea to discuss our different habits!

 

[mielabor]

Hmm, I may have an odd collection of friends, but I estimate that 80% of them have NO integrated appliances!

 

[panthera]

different approaches

Gabriele,
That is a good question. My kitchen here in Munich is a mixture of built in washer, dishwasher, dryer and hob with very non-integrated over-size refrigerator and cupboards/shelves.

I had the luxury of building it to fit my needs, and the prevalence of 59.5mmx60mmx820mm appliances here made it easy, fast and inexpensive.

In the US, cupboards tend to be roughly the same depth as in Europe, but appliances are frequently a good bit deeper. Dishwashers are the only major exception, unless you get into the far more expensive integrated-look systems. Appliance heights vary quite a bit in the US and because most American appliances put the controls on a vertical level above the appliance, our style of building a series of cupboards and frames, then just sliding things in and out is not possible.

Americans with space for it, frequently put an island in the middle of the traffic flow in the kitchen. This island will integrate a sink, dishwasher and frequently, hob. Can work, usually just a place to bump your elbows.

A well done separate unit kitchen can be beautiful and functional. A poorly done integrated unit reminds me of those hideous German wall-spanning units in 'Eiche-rustikal'...hideously obsessive-compulsive.

It's an irony that integrated units in the US are very expensive and free-standing the norm, whereas here a free-standing kitchen is going to cost a fortune and integrated is the standard.

It is far easier to keep an integrated kitchen spotless than the open style, my best of both worlds would integrate the preparation-clean up areas (sinks, garbage disposal, trash compactor, dishwasher) and leave the cooking and baking and microwaves free form with lots and lots of counter space for plug in appliances like mixers and waffle irons. Everything would be easy to pull out for cleaning, the biggest drawback of the non-integrated solution - I'm the only one with the strength to pull out the refrigerator and stove to clean behind every few weeks at my parents' house.

I read an American textbook on housekeeping written in the late 1940's awhile back. It showed pictures of integrated kitchens and mentioned that the Europeans were now adopting the American 'Chicago' standard. Any idea what that was? It sounds as if the integrated idea was very much planned in the US but never realized on a large scale.

 

[toggleswitch2]

For a great deal less money than a built-in (ntegrated/fitted) hob and oven, one can buy a full-sized (30 inch 75+/- cm) free-standing range/stove/cooker.

a built-in wall oven tends to be 24" for gas (60cm), 27 inches for electric (68.6cm) and now some 30" electrics, so as you can see there is not one standard cooker size at this time in this country.

Ditto refrigerators. They vary from 24 inches (60cm) to 36 inches (90cm) in width. Since bigger is always better *COUGH* the "I have more capacity then other brands" game meant the units became deeper and deeper, until consumers relaized it looks like hell in the kithcen to have a big sloppy box.

Even our washers and dryers were not standardized in size, but 27 x 27 was a sort of std. Wow with front-laoders playing the size/capacity game we'll see where that std. ends up.

To me the fitted Euro kithcens look far too sleek and cold for my taste. But then again Europe burned all of its wood in the 1400s as fuel. I haven't see too much wood in kithcens there. Perhaps sopmeone can correct me! Here in areas outside major cites kithcen cabintery tends to be wooden and or "country" style.

BTW I think we tend towards larger ovens in that our North American Thanskgiving holiday "requires" a dictated menu including a large roast trukey.

So in summary one can get a bigger oven that is self- cleaninga for less money and no intallation / size problems with a free-standing single-piece range/cooker than two separate fitted units.

 

[toggleswitch2]

According to Consumer Reports magaizine (like the UK's "Which")

Cooktops/hobs are $800 to $1,200.
Wall ovens (30") are $1,400 to $2,400.

A one-piece free-standing range can be found for $400 and up. So you see, here is a big reason why two-piece fitted installations (hob/cooktop and wall-oven)
may not be popular here

Ditto a "dual-fuel" cooker with both gas and electric heat sources. Here they are a fortune. From what I have seen in Europe there is no premium for this "specialty" item.

 

[danemodsandy]

One of the Reasons...

...For free-standing appliances here in the U.S. is that there are not the standards I think you have in Europe. In America, many people have had the experience of having a built-in appliance wear out, and finding that no replacement of comparable size is available. It is very expensive to have cabinetry altered, and the results are often unsatisfactory. I personally avoid built-in appliances like the plague for this reason. The sole exception is dishwashers, which do come in a standard size, but the manufacturers are beginning to fool with that, creating stuff that will be very hard to replace later, when the same manufacturers have changed their product size once again.

 

[foraloysius]

"To me the fitted Euro kithcens look far too sleek and cold for my taste. But then again Europe burned all of its wood in the 1400s as fuel. I haven't see too much wood in kithcens there. Perhaps sopmeone can correct me!"

Toggles sweety,

We didn't burn that many trees! LOL! In the seventies the oak kitchens came in vogue overhere and goodness I don't know how many of them were sold. My mother still has a seventies oak kitchen. Personally I hate those "cosy" kitchens with arched panels.

Here's an example. The fridge is probably behind the big door.

 

[hoover1100]

I'd say most people I know have a mix

In general, the only appliance that seems to be almost always built in is the oven and hob in most kitchens here. The rest tend to be freestanding. You do see quite a lot of intergrated fridge freezers and dishwashers but I wouldn't say they make the majority.

I'd imagine the main reason why intergrated appliances are less common in the US is the popularity of very large ranges and refrigerators, a lot of the "American" style fridges we get here are actually the "compact" or "slimline" models in the U.S. I think american cabinets are typically larger than ours too.

It does seem to me that intergrated dishwashers are far more common in the U.S. than here, I only ever see built-in or portable models, none that just slot in under the counter like ours.

Personaly I prefer to have all freestanding appliances, even the cooker. I like them to be on show

Matt

 

[sudsmaster]

Louis,

That oak cabinetry wouldn't look so bad if it were just plain, and refinished in a natural (light tan) tone.

I remember a certain fondness for the muted dark oak/brass/fern motif of the 70's... the classic "fern bar" look. Complete with an "art glass" (Tiffany clone) hanging light fixture. It was a reaction to the hard edged "plastic" look of the 60's, I think.

Never did care much for the false fronts on things like dishwashers and fridges, though. To my mind it makes a kitchen look kind of boring.

 

[washmeup]

My kitchen

The only appliance I have show is my stove. The sub zeros and the dishwashers are all integrated.

View attachment washmeup++10-4-2009-15-02-21.jpg

 

[DADoES]

Appliances should be visible. If I'm working in someone else's kitchen, or someone else is working in mine, there shouldn't have to be a search effort to locate the appliances.

 

[dj-gabriele]

Hey, that's really interesting! I never thought that there wasn't a standard size for built-in appliances! Right last week at my parents we popped out our old oven (from 1979) and put the last model in without trouble at all, even the electric cable was on the same position (but this could have been chance).

Also I can't believe how expensive are integrated appliances in the USA! To spend that much we have to get a premium brand like SMEG or Miele! If you go for IGNIS(Whirlpool) or Indesit, hobs start at as little as 100€ (140USD)! And cheap (static, non self cleaning) ovens start at 130€ (190USD) also from IGNIS... I've just discovered that Whirlpool group has the cheapest prices, not that I'm ever going to get anything from that brand after the bad experiences, but still it's a surprise! I thought that the cheapest stuff was made by Indesit but it costs almost twice! (let's stop my digression now)

Also about gas ovens with electric grill: here they start at around 250/280€ (370/410USD)(GLEM, that specializes in gas ovens and Indesit) they cost a little more than a basic oven but compared to MOL ovens are a little cheaper and very cheap compared to TOL models. Many have stay clean liners too and several models also have rotisserie and forced air cooking.

Again, it the USA, if there's no standardized height, how do you fit the appliances along your counters if you have to change, say the stove? Does at least the line of the same vendor stay the same or does it vary within the models?

 

[jeffg]

We certainly do have a standard height for kitchen countertops and built-in ovens. It's 36".

 

[toggleswitch2]

Centimeters are approximated. There are 2.54cm (actual) per

Agreed.

In addtion, lower kitchen cabinets are 24 inches deep(60cm). Upper cabinets are 12 inches deep(30cm).

Kitchen cabinets come in 30 inch (75 cm), and 42 inch (107cm) heights.

Their widths are available in 3 inch increments (7.62cm) rather than Euro standard of 5cm. (about 1.97 inches). The 42 inch hight cabinets go right up to the bottom of an 8 foot (standard) ceiling height (2.44m). The 30 inchers get mounted a foot below the ceiling, sometimes under a false soffit.
Similarly for safety and fore-prevention there must be 30 inces between the hob/cooktop and the bottom of the cabinet (or hood or microwave oven) that is above it.

There is no singular standard size for appliances, except dishwashers of 24 inches wide and just under 36 inches height (where height is adjustable by a few inches).

 

[toggleswitch2]

fire-prevention, that is!

 

[panthera]

I, too

notice enormous price and quality differences between the US and Europe.

A built-in induction hob with one 'traditional' resistance burner can be had for less than 400€, not on sale.

Quality, technology and design are all light years ahead of the dreary junk offered for many times the same price by Whirlpool and GE in the US.

Now, I do realise that our 230V standard makes an awful lot of difference in price and technology - my little 2Kw induction hot plate has a cord coming off it which is thinner than you'd need in the US for an appliance running .8Kw. Often, extra capacitors, etc. can be forgone completely.

I also understand that it is easier to mass produce new things when you know your potential customer can just slot out the old and shove in the new, even if there are 60 years between the original layout and the replacement.

Still, this doesn't come close to explaining the differences. Could it be that the weird inch (15 inches to a feet and four feet to a quart or something like that) and provincial market has left room in the US only for domestic producers and the very elite like Miele and Bosch?

You see the same thing with cell phones rates. The Americans pay enormously more than the rest of us for considerably worse service.

Maybe it is just that we have real competition here in Europe and the Americans don't.

Jeff, my darlin' takes me to several hundred houses every year in the US. That 36" standard is observed more in abeyance than fact. Sadly.

 

[danemodsandy]

Standards:

I did not mean to refer to standard working heights, but rather, standard overall sizes. Built-in ovens, cooktops, and refrigerators can be whatever size the manufacturer wants them to be. Ovens are the easiest; their width is usually either 24" or 27". But their overall height (how tall the oven is, not its working height) can vary a lot - and the width can vary too. Considering that ovens are the most built-in of built-in appliances, size mismatches can cause a lot of problems when a new oven is needed. Cooktops are the same - you have a cutout in the counter sized for a particular make and model, and it can be a pain finding another to fit that cutout. At the very least, you have to find one bigger, so the cutout can be enlarged, because you cannot, as a rule, make it smaller. It is possible to find appliances that work in existing cabinets, don't get me wrong. But is is usually a pain in the glutes to do so, because manufacturers keep messing with their sizes, and that's what different here from Europe.

What is most difficult here is if cabinetry must be altered to fit a new appliance. In most places, finding a craftsperson who can do a good, reasonably undetectable job of alteration - cutting cabinets or adding to them, and finishing the final result to match the rest of the cabinets' finish - is no easy job. I used to be heavily involved in food, cooking and kitchen remodels, and I've seen more than one built-in oven replacement morph into a total remodel of the kitchen.

 

[panthera]

Sandy,

You'll not have an easy time finding a competent craftsman in Europe, either.

To be honest, it's probably easier to find a good one in the US right now.

This is why so many Europeans stick to the standards - you can pick up the cupboards and frames to slot the appliances into at IKEA or an big box warehouse and know they will integrate just fine with the Euronorm from 19xx.

What puzzles me is that it seems our European standards are based on research done in the US in the early 20th century which, for some reason, was kicked to the curbside. Planned obsolescence?

And why the precipitous drop in quality? I've had the pleasure of being under the skirts of enough thumpers to know that at least until the late '60s, American products were just as good as our European goods (which, today, are also built in China, just to "A" standards and not "C"). Why do Americans put up with it?

 

[danemodsandy]

Keven:

Americans are very fashion-conscious, and very conditioned to accept advertising messages. Two recent examples are the rush to stainless appliances and the rush to front-loaders.

Stainless appliances are undeniably handsome, but they are the worst possible choice for family use, because they show every fingermark and smudge. Doesn't matter - people see stainless in the ads, and that's what they want. I know more people who are wretchedly unhappy with their stainless reefers, because of the impossibility of keeping them clean around kids. But did they think that issue through before choosing a fridge? Nope!

Front-loaders are sold here as a "green" choice; that message is trumpeted so loudly these days that it is seen as irresponsible to buy anything else. And it is true, today's front-loaders can deliver impressive water savings. What's wrong with that is that many front-loader purchases are replacing perfectly serviceable top-loaders - and it takes more energy to build and deliver a new appliance than that appliance will ever consume in its working life. Also, the shoddy design and construction standards of many new front-loaders will mean that they'll have to be replaced within only a few years, necessitating the creation of yet another appliance. Most people here don't think energy-saving issues through to that extent - if they see an Energy Star logo, they're conditioned to think that the issue has been handled for them.

Many front-loaders here are having incredible problems at five or six years old; here's a link to a Kenmore with a terminally corroded spider and a plastic outer tub scored nearly all the way through by poorly designed screws in the stainless drum. But hey, it was an Energy Star appliance, right?

None of my observations here apply to members of this list - people here choose their appliances consciously, after doing some real research. I'm talking about the majority of Americans who get their "information" from advertising.