Is it just me or was the Speed Queen design a fairly generic design back in the day?

[whirlpool862]

Back in the day, a lot of washing machines that weren’t from the big three (GE, Whirlpool, Maytag), used similar parts to Samsungs. The Amanatags did and the older 1990s Amanas. Both had Speed Queen designs.

And there are some other brands I can’t recall that used the design. It seemed to be the most generic design there was, followed by the WCI Frigidaire design. The older Norge units had the same agitators as the WCI Frigidaire units.

 

[Chetlaham]

My honest opinion is that milk stool designs with plus sized transmissions are superior to the big three but were very poorly executed and overly cheapened resulting in the bad publicity history tells us about.

Raytheon designed and built one of the best washers ever but the original design never really caught on and wasn't improved upon.

 

[whirlpool862]

My honest opinion is that milk stool designs with plus sized transmissions are superior to the big three but were very poorly executed and overly cheapened resulting in the bad publicity history tells us about.

Raytheon designed and built one of the best washers ever but the original design never really caught on and wasn't improved upon.

The Speed Queens are good machines. The Amanatags that used a similar platform were problematic.

For some reason, the other companies never seemed to get that design right.

 

[Chetlaham]

The Speed Queens are good machines. The Amanatags that used a similar platform were problematic.

For some reason, the other companies never seemed to get that design right.

To much cheapening I think. The Maytag performa was the epitome of that. There is only so much cost cutting and poor implementation before any good design becomes just awful. Think if the Maytag Dependable cares had seals that all failed after 5 years. We'd all be talking awful of a design the Maytag Dependable Care was.

 

[qsd-dan]

Think if the Maytag Dependable cares had seals that all failed after 5 years. We'd all be talking awful of a design the Maytag Dependable Care was.

That briefly happened when Maytag switched to the triple lip seal until they ironed things out. The older design used from 1956-1995 was much better. One could switch out the A4298 seal for a couple of bucks, slap it together, and run it another 30+ years without having to replace the boot seal and metal mounting stem. Those in the know were doing this early on when the triple lip seal first came out and was problematic.

 

[whirlpool862]

To much cheapening I think. The Maytag performa was the epitome of that. There is only so much cost cutting and poor implementation before any good design becomes just awful. Think if the Maytag Dependable cares had seals that all failed after 5 years. We'd all be talking awful of a design the Maytag Dependable Care was.

The Performa was a Norge-based washer. The Amanatags had the Speed Queen type build to them and they started with “SAV”. The Performas start with “MAV”.

The pumps on those machines also were garbage, they’d go out frequently and make a loud noise. The seals and thrust bearings weren’t good either. The tub bearings often failed prematurely causing bearing failure. The norgetags and Amanatags both were problematic.

 

[phillymatt53]

That briefly happened when Maytag switched to the triple lip seal until they ironed things out. The older design used from 1956-1995 was much better. One could switch out the A4298 seal for a couple of bucks, slap it together, and run it another 30+ years without having to replace the boot seal and metal mounting stem. Those in the know were doing this early on when the triple lip seal first came out and was problematic.

Let me ask this...
How come my 39 year old A482 machine, after all these decades, has never had seal issues or leaks.
When I was in it last month to oil the pump bearing, I inspected the whole underside mechanicals, and pulled the agitiator to inspect things.
Bone dry everywhere, no leakages, no rotten rubber, nothing.

 

[whirlpool862]

Let me ask this...
How come my 39 year old A482 machine, after all these decades, has never had seal issues or leaks.
When I was in it last month to oil the pump bearing, I inspected the whole underside mechanicals, and pulled the agitiator to inspect things.
Bone dry everywhere, no leakages, no rotten rubber, nothing.

That’s a dependable care, NOT a Norge or Amanatag

 

[whirlpool862]

Let me ask this...
How come my 39 year old A482 machine, after all these decades, has never had seal issues or leaks.
When I was in it last month to oil the pump bearing, I inspected the whole underside mechanicals, and pulled the agitiator to inspect things.
Bone dry everywhere, no leakages, no rotten rubber, nothing.

The dependable cares didn’t get seal failures as much.

 

[Chetlaham]

The Performa was a Norge-based washer. The Amanatags had the Speed Queen type build to them and they started with “SAV”. The Performas start with “MAV”.

The pumps on those machines also were garbage, they’d go out frequently and make a loud noise. The seals and thrust bearings weren’t good either. The tub bearings often failed prematurely causing bearing failure. The norgetags and Amanatags both were problematic.

Its tragic because if they made the design a little bit better it would have been like Speed Queen today: solid and dependable.

 

[Chetlaham]

The dependable cares didn’t get seal failures as much.

Personally, I think, Maytag should have never sold another agitator top load washer except for the Dependable Care.

 

[whirlpool862]

Personally, I think, Maytag should have never sold another agitator top load washer except for the Dependable Care.

True. They should’ve never made the Neptune either. The Neptune’s had massive bearing and control board failures. The top load ones were much worse, they were so bad that they are extremely rare to find in use or even for sale.

Most of them broke down, even lightly used ones. The boards kept failing, as well as the plastic transmission and the bearing.

 

[phillymatt53]

When you get to the point of long term reliability...
And widespread satisfaction...
WHY would you want to change a tried and true design?

 

[whirlpool862]

When you get to the point of long term reliability...
And widespread satisfaction...
WHY would you want to change a tried and true design?

Because of cost cutting. Other manufacturers made the Speed Queen design seem horrible, when it was not a bad design.

I don’t think any of the Amanas were actually made by Alliance, but the older ones were essentially just Speed Queens with a plastic outer tub.

 

[Chetlaham]

True. They should’ve never made the Neptune either tbh.

It helped do them in. But personally the Norge/Performa/Magic chef washers took the cake. I remember people literally talking about how their new Maytag washers were leaking and filling up the house with smoke. People literally quipping out loud "Maytag is junk, I will never buy another Maytag" I remember telling them not all Maytags were bad, that the Dependable Cares were "real" but people just gave me an odd look.

Sadly, Maytag I don't think had a choice. It was either winding down production gradually until the front load HE market snuffed out all Dependable Care sales down the road or release junk products sooner and get gobbled up by a competitor.

People were ignorant. They choose capacity and cost over all else. Whirlpool won that market and everything else fell by the wayside. If everyone was like me people would have looked at the direct drives and said "nope", looked at the model Ts and projectile vomited, then promptly purchased a dependable care when they see the simple all metal design with a history of lasting 30 years. Some feedback would have improved the agitator for better cleaning sure, but the rest would have stayed them same. Around 2008 Maytag would've started releasing HE top loads that changed the deep rinse to a series of spray rinses. Possibly 3 solenoid water valves. However all else would have been the same except perhaps some extended warranty free of charge.

 

[whirlpool862]

It helped do them in. But personally the Norge/Performa/Magic chef washers took the cake. I remember people literally talking about how their new Maytag washers were leaking and filling up the house with smoke. People literally quipping out loud "Maytag is junk, I will never buy another Maytag" I remember telling them not all Maytags were bad, that the Dependable Cares were "real" but people just gave me an odd look.

Sadly, Maytag I don't think had a choice. It was either winding down production gradually until the front load HE market snuffed out all Dependable Care sales down the road or release junk products sooner and get gobbled up by a competitor.

People were ignorant. They choose capacity and cost over all else. Whirlpool won that market and everything else fell by the wayside. If everyone was like me people would have looked at the direct drives and said "nope", looked at the model Ts and projectile vomited, then promptly purchased a dependable care when they see the simple all metal design with a history of lasting 30 years. Some feedback would have improved the agitator for better cleaning sure, but the rest would have stayed them same. Around 2008 Maytag would've started releasing HE top loads that changed the deep rinse to a series of spray rinses. Possibly 3 solenoid water valves. However all else would have been the same except perhaps some extended warranty free of charge.

Norgetags were absolute junk. Those pumps were a MAJOR failure, I had no idea since I’m new to washing machines. The pumps also would commonly make a grinding or squealing sound. The seals and bearings also were awful. Bearings failed within like 2 years on those.

Also, the direct drives had similar capacity to model-T’s, BOTH WERE 3.2 to 3.5 CU FT, some people just preferred to the look of the GE. THE GE’s didn’t have larger capacities necessarily.

People often value aesthetics over reliability. When someone says “this washer looks nice” they’ll want to buy it.

 

[whirlpool862]

It helped do them in. But personally the Norge/Performa/Magic chef washers took the cake. I remember people literally talking about how their new Maytag washers were leaking and filling up the house with smoke. People literally quipping out loud "Maytag is junk, I will never buy another Maytag" I remember telling them not all Maytags were bad, that the Dependable Cares were "real" but people just gave me an odd look.

Sadly, Maytag I don't think had a choice. It was either winding down production gradually until the front load HE market snuffed out all Dependable Care sales down the road or release junk products sooner and get gobbled up by a competitor.

People were ignorant. They choose capacity and cost over all else. Whirlpool won that market and everything else fell by the wayside. If everyone was like me people would have looked at the direct drives and said "nope", looked at the model Ts and projectile vomited, then promptly purchased a dependable care when they see the simple all metal design with a history of lasting 30 years. Some feedback would have improved the agitator for better cleaning sure, but the rest would have stayed them same. Around 2008 Maytag would've started releasing HE top loads that changed the deep rinse to a series of spray rinses. Possibly 3 solenoid water valves. However all else would have been the same except perhaps some extended warranty free of charge.

Also, if Maytag made H.E. washers they would probably be awful. I’m glad Whirlpool bought them out.

Maytag’s Neptune TL was their H.E. washer, and if they attempted a VMW type design or a HydroWave design they’d probably be just as bad. And likely, they’d just push out more Neptune TL’s.

 

[Chetlaham]

Because of cost cutting. Other manufacturers made the Speed Queen design seem horrible, when it was not a bad design.

I don’t think any of the Amanas were actually made by Alliance, but the older ones were essentially just Speed Queens with a plastic outer tub.

It was a superior design actually. Superior to the DD. But things like high stress parts were cheapened giving out prematurely. Speed Queen took a horrible execution and turned it into a great product. After looking at the insides of my Speed Queen while changing the water valves everything was bone dry and no flung oil about.

Consumers looking for machines with similar capacities and features but buying the ones at the lowest cost is what did the market in. The only way you can get manufacturer A to be $10 cheaper than manufacturer B is via slight cost cutting. And because manufacturer B does not want to fall behind they cheapen their own product just to match or go slightly lower than A. This at first brings up sales for anyone who lowers their price, but, in the end its a down hill race that just results in junkier and junkier products ending where we are today. All machines are of an identically sucky design that is unlikely to last beyond 5-7 years without a major repair.

There is also the fact that raw material goods have gone up over the years, so to keep costs consistent you have to fund a way to use less and less material per machine.

 

[whirlpool862]

It was a superior design actually. Superior to the DD. But things like high stress parts were cheapened giving out prematurely. Speed Queen took a horrible execution and turned it into a great product. After looking at the insides of my Speed Queen while changing the water valves everything was bone dry and no flung oil about.

Consumers looking for machines with similar capacities and features but buying the ones at the lowest cost is what did the market in. The only way you can get manufacturer A to be $10 cheaper than manufacturer B is via slight cost cutting. And because manufacturer B does not want to fall behind they cheapen their own product just to match or go slightly lower than A. This at first brings up sales for anyone who lowers their price, but, in the end its a down hill race that just results in junkier and junkier products ending where we are today. All machines are of an identically sucky design that is unlikely to last beyond 5-7s without a major repair.

There is also the fact that raw material goods have gone up over the years, so to keep costs consistent you have to fund a way to use less and less material per machine.

The Amanatags had a good design but they were cheaply made. Maytag was never known for making good H.E. washers so I’m glad Whirlpool bought them out.

If Maytag made H.E. washers they’d probably make a modern called “Neptune TL II” or something that would fail prematurely. I’m also sure Maytag may have out like a Speed Queen TR style design on their Amanatag or they’d make a knockoff VMW.

 

[Chetlaham]

Also, if Maytag made H.E. washers they would probably be awful. I’m glad Whirlpool bought them out.

Maytag’s Neptune TL was their H.E. washer, and if they attempted a VMW type design or a HydroWave design they’d probably be just as bad. And likely, they’d just push out more Neptune TL’s.

You kidding? Take a late 90s / early 2000s dependable care that already has the re-designed fill flume water entry system, change the deep rinse to a series of spray rinses on the EM timer and presto you have my version of an HE top load machine.

 

[Chetlaham]

Norgetags were absolute junk. Those pumps were a MAJOR failure, I had no idea since I’m new to washing machines. The pumps also would commonly make a grinding or squealing sound. The seals and bearings also were awful. Bearings failed within like 2 years on those.

Also, the direct drives had similar capacity to model-T’s, BOTH WERE 3.2 to 3.5 CU FT, some people just preferred to the look of the GE. THE GE’s didn’t have larger capacities necessarily.

People often value aesthetics over reliability. When someone says “this washer looks nice” they’ll want to buy it.

My understanding is the super capacity model T could fit more than the direct drives, at least that is what I saw in adverting literature.

 

[whirlpool862]

You kidding? Take a late 90s / early 2000s dependable care that already has the re-designed fill flume water entry system, change the deep rinse to a series of spray rinses on the EM timer and presto you have my version of an HE top load machine.

That can be good actually. Same for if Whirlpool made an H.E. version of their direct drive that way instead of switching to VMW. In fact, whirlpool actually did this for their stackable units.

 

[whirlpool862]

My understanding is the super capacity model T could fit more than the direct drives, at least that is what I saw in adverting literature.

Actually, no all the Model Ts are 3.5 cu ft max, some direct drives are too. Sure, many modern machines (like the super size VMWs) can fit significantly more clothes than the direct drives. I can’t find a Model-T that’s more than 3.5 cu ft, although I can find HydroWaves that are 3.9 cu ft.

The large capacity GE’s were the Harmony’s, not the Model-T’s.

 

[Chetlaham]

Also, if Maytag made H.E. washers they would probably be awful. I’m glad Whirlpool bought them out.

Maytag’s Neptune TL was their H.E. washer, and if they attempted a VMW type design or a HydroWave design they’d probably be just as bad. And likely, they’d just push out more Neptune TL’s.

Says who? All you need to is changed the notches and drive teeth on the timer drum and you have a HE top load washer. Anyone can do this, even Maytag through their supplier.

 

[Chetlaham]

Actually, no all the Model Ts are 3.5 cu ft max, some direct drives are too. Sure, many modern machines (like the super size VMWs) can fit significantly more clothes than the direct drives. I can’t find a Model-T that’s more than 3.5 cu ft, although I can find HydroWaves that are 3.9 cu ft.

The large capacity GE’s were the Harmony’s, not the Model-T’s.

I thought DDs were 3.2 cu? Either way its moot because model T could not wash any load other than a small load set on a small water level.

 

[whirlpool862]

Says who? All you need to is changed the notches and drive teeth on the timer drum and you have a HE top load washer. Anyone can do this, even Maytag through their supplier.

Maytag could’ve done that. All the manufacturers could’ve made H.E. versions of their old designs. That’s what Speed Queen did with their TC5.

 

[Chetlaham]

That can be good actually. Same for if Whirlpool made an H.E. version of their direct drive that way instead of switching to VMW. In fact, whirlpool actually did this for their stackable units.

Whirlpool had the best spray rinse system ever made, they recirculated the water via a simple solenoid valve.

 

[whirlpool862]

I thought DDs were 3.2 cu? Either way its moot because model T could not wash any load other than a small load set on a small water level.

The plastic drum Model-T’s were 3.2, the stainless ones were 3.5. Some direct drives were larger than others. I believe some direct drives had 3.5 cu ft capacity. The direct drives came in a wide range of sizes. Most of the model-T’s are 3.2 and 3.5 cu ft. The Model-T’s were larger capacity for the cheapest models only.

 

[Chetlaham]

Maytag could’ve done that. All the manufacturers could’ve made H.E. versions of their old designs. That’s what Speed Queen did with their TC5.

Yup! That how I would have done it.

 

[Chetlaham]

The plastic drum Model-T’s were 3.2, the stainless ones were 3.5. Some direct drives were larger than others. I believe some direct drives had 3.5 cu ft capacity. The direct drives came. in a wide range of sizes.

Were those 3.5 cu direct drives the one with those slim King Size agitator?