Is There a FL Washer Available in the U. S. That Heats Wash Water to 206 F?

[gredmondson]

My son, who has been so impressed with the stain removing ability of the Miele washer I have that heats the water to 206 F in the "Sanitize" cycle, wants me to fine him the same washer. When I went online to check out the temperature for current Miele washers, the highest temperature I see is 158 F. Is there a washer available in the U. S. that heats water to a higher temperature?
George

 

[launderess]

IIRC Some Models of Asko Still Do "Boil Washes"

But require 220v connections.

Used Miele washers from the 19XX series that can do uber-hot washes pop up often enough on eBay, CL or similar places. Your challenge is often finding one locally or being able to arrange payment and shipping if far.

 

[Iowegian]

What is it with the thought that to get laundry clean it has to be boiled?

Does that come from the African tribes that used to boil bones and skulls to make wartime garb?

What would happen to a pair of Levi's at 206F? Would they shrink, or do you buy two sizes larger to compensate for what the German wonder-washer does to them?

 

[mattl]

Well some of us like hot washes for some items.  No way would I give up my FL with a built in heater.  Stuff comes out SOOO much cleaner with less chemicals using it.

 

[launderess]

Historically boiling was part of the wash day when laundry was done mainly by hand. It was used mainly on whites and colourfast items and followed soaking, soaping, and rinsing.

Boiling served several purposes:

It opened textile fibers to allow any trapped dirt, soil and more importantly soap from the previous soaking and soaping to be released from textiles. Subsequent rinses in hot water carried the muck away.

Boiling destroyed vermin (lice, fleas, bedbugs, etc..) that were all to common then.

It helped whiten and keep whites bright, especially after oxygen bleach (sodium perborate) was discovered and eventually made it's way into the first laundry "detergent" Persil.

Boiling also provided a measure of disenfection in times before modern antibiotics when simple infections could and did kill, especially infants and children.

And so and so forth.

On this side of the pond routine boiling of laundry started to wane as mechanical washing machines became common, and more homes had plummed hot water. Long as one had access to hot water that was >140F to about 160F that was fine to activate the soap which was used for cleaning and subsequent hot rinses would carry away the loosened muck.

If we remember the five main basics of good laundering practice (water amount, time, water temperature, mechanical action, and chemical action), we know the increase in one affects a decrease in others and vice versa. Boiling had the affect of lossening soils without all that beating, scrubbing and other harsh hand washing techniques. However with the advent washing machines to provide mechanical action (usually far more gentle and what was done by hand),hot water temperture could decrease.

American housewives, commercial laundries and so forth also took to and still vastly prefer chlorine bleach for stain removal/fabric whitening. LCB does not require "boiling" wash temps and does it's work quite well in normal household hot water (120F to 140F), so again boiling just wasn't necesssary.

OTHO in much of the UK and Europe boiling held sway and as early washing machines began to be introduced housewives and other consumers made it cleart they wouldn't choose a washer that couldn't do a boil wash.

Early Miele and other washing machines simply had a fire box under the wash tub. Later after electric power became widespread and technology advanced washing machines were built with internal electric heaters.

Part of Europe's love of boil washes has to do with Persil, the first oxygen based laundry "detergent", and the aversion on the other side of the pond to chlorine bleach for laundry use.

Sodium perborate needs water temps at or >140F to really become active. However starting the wash at those temps not only shocks textiles but sets some stains and soils. Hence the famous "profile" wash. Cycle starts with cold water (to prevent setting of stains), moves on to warm (better soil removal and once enzymes were introduced allowed them to work), then finally hot to boiling (to activate the oxygen bleaching agents for whitening, stain removal, etc..).

 

[Iowegian]

Are you sure?

Surgeons wash their hands in water that's about 100F, and they can have their fingers in parts of your bod that you probably can't even name.

More isn't always better, especially when the thought process only covers one variable.

Temperature, time, agitation, detergent efficacy, water quantity. All 5 make a difference. If you want to hang your hat on just the first, then that's fine by me.

But I hope you cook your dinner at no less than 700F, because temperature is the most important thing, right?

 

[arbilab]

[rolleyes]

I get perfect results at 120F and extra time/100F prewash as required. It is definitely possible to pay more if one feels it needed. But one may be paying for feeling more than for cleaning. And at 206F vs. 120F the price is substantial unless someone else pays your utilities.

 

[Iowegian]

Yep, arilab, if more temperature were better, then the Europeons would be building pressure-cooker washers like Colonel Sanders uses to cook chickens.

206F wash at atmospheric pressure (29.92 in Hg) is nothing compared to 350F wash at more pressure (like 45.00 in Hg). Hotter the better, until the fabric bursts into flames.

It's like watching "Top Gear" on BBC America, where the obnoxious host (Jeremy someone) talks about how many "torques" the Mercedes AMG63 has.

 

[dj-gabriele]

Guys, think that a machine (even the old ones) doing a wash at 95°C, just 5 degrees short of boiling temperature at sea will use on average 1,6-2,5 kWh of electricity, compared to the most efficient top loading machine ever done to perform a warm/warm cycle at 40° it's a saving of over 60%.

Plus not all the loads are boilwashed. As Launderess said it's reserved for colourfast and white cotton and linen textiles.
Most of the cycles are usually done at 40°C or 60°C with a growing tendency towards 30°C or cold washes (that are just gross in my opinion) because of the green tree-hugging mentality.

But I say to you, even using a cheap detergent, a boilwash will get rid or ANY kind of stain, even the worst! While to accomplish the same result at 40°C you have to use a superb quality detergent coupled with a stain softener additive and a soak, and maybe bleach (be it oxigen based or clorine based).

In the end if you're lucky you end up using more than twice the chemicals used for a boilwash and the net gain is negative! You end up using more resources than simply boiling the stain away.

Also regarding longevity of clothes routinely boiled I must say I have in regular use linens (made of real linen) that are as much as 100 years old and many others are approaching 60...

 

[mrboilwash]

There also seems to be a cultural difference in terms of clothes and laundry on this side of the pond.

To me clothing means anything you wear that others can see like shirts and pants. Clothes get a much cooler treatment, most people seem to prefer warm water.

I associate laundry with things like sheets, towels, underwear, tablecloths and so on.
Anything white or colorfast that might be shared between family members and white underwear qualyfies for a boil wash.
In other words there is fashion and household linen.

Unfortunately current Mieles on the US market only run on 120 Volts, thus cannot provide a super hot wash. Good luck with finding a good substitute !

 

[neptunebob]

Well, I'll try, I might have to duck and run though...

Boiling clothes: My mother tells me of when she grew up during the depression, her mother had 12 kids and lived on a farm in Kansas and she would fire up the wood stove and put on a big pot and boil clothes like jeans and shirts and T shirts along with any underwear. It was the only way to get Kansas soil and cow manure out and to remove the odors with the soaps they used at the time. It had to dangerous around the kids, and they were not allowed in the kitchen. Even Levis were boiled.

As for the surgeons and their handwashing, they try to use 120 degree water but the disinfectants they use are quite strong and they do wear latex gloves. This might be considered bacterocidal, but not sterilized but the gloves are sterile and that seems to be enough. The scrubs they wear, after being washed, are also put through an autoclave cycle that sterilizes the fabric. I will have to look up to see what JCAHO says about this, I am sure they have a procedure.

When handwashing, the time also matters: Health care and food service workers are supposed to wash their hands in the time it takes to sing "happy birthday". Surgeons scrub for longer and up all of their forearms too.

The USDA considers an internal temperature of 140 degrees Fahrenheit safe for most cooked foods and recommends 160 degrees for meats like pork. It the temperature inside that matters, which is why you see restaurant managers with those little thermometers in their shirt pockets, they are supposed to check the cooked (and chilled) foods.

 

[mikeklondon]

Bed-Bugs / Lice

Hi all I understand Bed-bugs are now once again are a big problem, could this have something to do with lower and lower temps???????????????????. I love me Miele and its 60 / 75 / 95 c

 

[tomturbomatic]

Iowegian, I think you are getting a little bothered about wash temps. Historically, high temperatures were used to bleach cotton before chemical bleaches. We have a mill in Savage, MD that made sails from Revolutionary days and one of their milestones was the installation of the "superheater" a boiler that allowed them to bleach the sailcloth white. It was quite a place and there are still remnants of the site of the dam as well as the concrete and brick pier in the river where the turbines converted the motion of the rushing water to turning belts that went into the factory to run the looms that made the sailcloth.

High water temperatures, raised gradually during washing can give great results. Boiling of white laundry as a part of the operation was also done long ago to remove traces of soap which, if left in the fabrics, would cause yellowing during ironing. Because of the bleaching action of very hot water, you would not wash colors at high temperatures. I can tell you from watching the laundering process in the home of my father's mother that water was heated to boiling in a wash boiler on a stove and then bailed into the washer, so it was not too terribly long ago that water well over 180F was used in this country for laundry. Of course properly pretreated and soaked whites were washed first, then colors as the water cooled during the morning. From your comments about Levi's, you sound unfamiliar with buying 501s larger to allow for shrinkage, putting them on out of the washer and wearing them until they dried for the shrink-to-fit look.

 

[jerrod6]

forgot about the 501s

Wow I forgot about 501's, that's all I would ever wear.  Washed them hot, put them on wet and walked around until they were dried.

 

I guess they still make them so maybe I will give them a try again as long as I can find them in my waist size which sadly is about  29 inches. Hard to find men's pants in this size anymore.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

All I can say  is that I had to use the boilwash while using FL's with the cycle for whites, and this is what most owner of Front loaders (the majority) here in italy  do when heavy soiled whites  or colorfats occurs,  this is to get laundry something nearer being clean and spotless, otherwise they would not...

Chlorine bleach was widely used in Europe till recent years when  specifically formulated whitening oxy additives and stain additives have been brought over and replaced some of the bleach use, a proof showing it are the machines that in recent years almost lost the use to have a bleach dispenser while in the past indeed was very common, usually in european front loaders  the automatic bleaching cycle was made during the second or third rinse in cold water before final rinse...

In case of very heavy soiled  items  some machines manufacturers suggested to have a prewash with bleach only as bleaching cycle prior to wash in warm water, many machines infact do prewash with warm water....40°c-
Boiling process of laundry always been very common in the past when laundry was done by hand, as it reduced the mechanical action needed to get stuff clean... but this is obvious....

This technique got lost time after time in USA after the advent of washing machines that provied the  results even without boiling procedure........

From many users of european FL's  machines  in europe is believed that to get a high soiled white load "clean" a boilwash is the only thing that would be  capable to do the job.....and yes they're right. Of course hotter water provides cleanest laundry.

In all machines an hot  wash for whites it is still the "key" for  a good spotless result.

 Agitator  machines on average  require water less hot, unfortunately in the modern days some people looks like claim to have very  heavy soiled  whites clean with water heater and water  coming setted to 104 F°,  hard almost impossible task,   a proper temperature for an avrage top loader white wash would be around  130 F° -150F , I have a  130F° 140 F° water income at my house and our  white laundry always been spotless and sparkling white,   you will never need a boilwash with an  average agitator washer, then there're washers and washers of course......  that  is why in USA, Canada, Mexico, Brazil,  India and certain other countries using agitator machines boilwash is  just  considered not necessary, for some europeans always used to Front loaders indeed a boilwash for whites is a custom, they have to have the use of boilwashes for these reasons  and they  look at it as a essential thing that actually  is for the machine type they use......that is also a reason why many Europeans does not look good at agitator american machines  only because they believe laundry would not get clean if it does not  do a boilwash .....how many times this matter ran across the website...countless times......

Also, others  facts that find their reson in common used  habits, beliefs  and peculiarities of historical periods  etc made of the self heating and boilwash common in Europe and certain countries, as for ex the fact of UK machines having double fill while german ones not....
Or also earlier british agitator twin tubs including an heater and a setting to boilwash...
But talking about FL washers reaching 206 F° In USA you might want to check at this website having some european washers, they will work on 220 volt and some only support 50 hz, maybe others will also support 60hz.....

 

 

[launderess]

Bed-Bugs / Lice

Depending upon who you believe the increase in bed bug infestation has to do with increased ease and access of world travel, and or increased "thrifting", "dumpster diving" or otherwise bringing things home that aren't new and or found on the streets.

One of the first places to report bed bugs here in NYC were hotels. This lead "experts" to think that the critters where coming in and being spread via travellers and their luggage/clothing.

Next we started seeing them in persons homes/apartments and when questioned many reported having "picked up" things off the street or at resale shops such as furniture, mattresses, bedding etc.. (those of a certain age remember our mothers screaming at us never to do such things because "you don't know where it's been or what you'll catch), but apparently that has gone out of the window out of necessity or couldn't care less.

Soon we started seeing/hearing of bed bugs in theaters, coffee shops, clothing stores, and pretty much everywhere else persons went.

 

[launderess]

@Iowegian

One did not say temperature was the only thing which mattered, but repeated the common accepted theory of good laundry practice that if one increases that parameter the others can be lowered.

Truth to tell temperature plays just one part in "santitising" laundry. Chemical and mechanical action play important roles however when speaking of temps say >140F the main thing going on is removal of *germs* from textiles and keeping them suspended in wash water. Thus they are drained away, perhaps most alive and well, but never the less they aren't on one's laundry which is what most care about.

Temperature is also not a very accurate way for sanitising laundry alone because various germs, moulds, bacteria, etc are killed at different temps held at different time lengths. The easiest E Coli (usually found in fecal matter) is killed at temps of about 160F held for ten minutes IIRC. However there are various yeasts and other germs that require temps at 180F or above to be killed.

This topic comes up often enough both here and in the world at large and for those either connected with healthcare and or have any experience/knowledge of the matter it really is moot. Aside from some serious infectious diseases such as smallpox no major outbreak of disease as ever been attributed to properly handled soiled then clean laundry. There are probably more pathogens growing on many computer keyboards, mouses, toilet seats, bathroom surfaces (including shower curtains, sinks, faucet handles and door knobs), yet so many Americans worry about their laundry being "disinfected". [this post was last edited: 10/15/2012-22:53]

 

[iheartmaytag]

Bed bugs

What I have read the main reason for the resurgence of bed bugs is the removal of effective insecticides from the market.  There was even a recent petition to allow DDT for limited usage.   EPA denied the request.  Other less effective insecticides are at risk of immiunity by the critters, and hence--if you thrift, boil, steam or freeze the hell out of it.   

 

I refuse to purchase used furniture of any kind at a thrift, but there has recently been a case where New retailers were infested with what they blame on imported goods.  Any clothing or bedding item I purchase new or used is immediately washed on the hottest wash the fabric can stand and dried on the highest temp or hung outdoors in the sun. 

 

Also the germophobe/vacuumaholic that I am vacuum at least once a day, sometimes more.  Beds get vacuumed at least weekly (have you ever seen dust mites)  YUCK!!!

 

And thanks Laundress, as I wipe my keyboard with Lysol wipes.  Cell phones--nasty, nasty things, lots of germs. 

 

 

[gredmondson]

I found these older Miele models in Burlingame . . .

W1966, W4842, W1215

I think they all are not current stock, and that at least one of them boosts the water to 190 F. The warehouse salesman of Atherton Appliance told me that these were floor models, or mis-ordered, or returned models. He also said that it was possible to get a machine that listed for $2000.00 for $500.00. Is this too good to be true?

I do know that my machine, W1203, will take out underarm discolorations from white T shirts, and that white dress shirts that had turned gray from going to a commercial laundry, came out sparkling white after a run through the "Sanitize" cycle with a prewash and planty of Persil and OxyClean.