Is there any real protection from power surges?

[vintagekitchen]

Well, I got hit today. There was a major thunderstorm in this area, and several transformer were apparently hit by lightning, as well as trees and branches damaging power lines. My electricity never went out completely, however, in a short space of time the power would dip down and almost go out, then bounce back up, then a surge would come through.

I protect items in my home with surge protectors, and not the cheap ones either, but apparently this was false security. After one of these "fits" during the storm, and the power dipping and surging repeatedly, the tv picture scrambled for a moment, then became unwatchable. The red green and blue convergence no longer line up at all, it's like watching bad 3D, without the special glasses.

When I saw what had happened, I quickly unplugged the refrigerator and air conditioner, and it seems so far that the only damage was to the tv, which is very frustrating, since it is a 54 inch rear projection in a wooden cabinet, with an entertainment center/ tv surround in matching wood. The nearest repair man still willing to work on these type tv's is 2 hours away, and while his price per hour and for travel is reasonable, it's not in the budget this month.

Is there no real protection from power surges? I feel cheated, I paid for the high quality power strip surge protectors, and none of them tripped, if they had the tv might still be functional. How do I protect my appliances and electronics?[this post was last edited: 7/10/2013-20:27]

 

[wayupnorth]

Power surges

I hope if I get a power surge I am home and can shut off computer, tv, etc and close windows, which are never open or turned on when not home. Regardless of the surge protector, I always run around and unplug them totally if its really bad or forcasted to be bad and NOAA radar says watch out basically. so far, so good after 18 years here.

 

[norgeway]

Darned if I know...

But I can tell you a true story of just how much lightning can tear up, my neighbors back home were asleep one morning about 45 or 50 years ago when lightning stuck their house, the fuse box was an old fashioned thing in the wall over their bed, the door blew open and all four of the glass fuses stuck in the wall on the other side of the room, almost like you shot them out of a gun...They told me they of course jumped up and started looking to see if the house was on fire, it wasnt but the freezer which was a great big then new Coldspot sat on a closed in poarch, when they opened the door they were almost overcome with black greasy smoke, the freezer took a direct hit, splitting the compressor wide open, when it was all over and they moved the freezer, there were holes in the concrete where each of the feet sat, about 6 to 8 inches deep and about the same size around,they never found the cord except for inch long pieces, the strangest thing was, the insurance company had the freezer rebuilt and a distant cousin still has it and its still running, now over 50 years old, the drip pan looks like you hit it all over with a hammer where the lightning hit it!and the feet are welded in place.

 

[DADoES]

 
I have my AV equipment on a Panamax power conditioner (NOT a battery backup) and haven't (yet) had any damage occur in all the years.

My computers are on APC battery units.

Washer, dishwasher, refrigerator are on typical surge suppressors.

 

[classiccaprice]

Huh!  My parents were always really careful with thunderstorms.  I can remember going  around the house and unplug the tv, stereo, computer and microwave whenever a big storm was approaching.  I still do this to a lesser degree to this day.  In the 70's my great-grandmother's house was struck by lightening.  She had one of those electric organs that were popular then and the keys were all blown off it.  

 

[danemodsandy]

I'm Trained....

....By years of dealing with Georgia Power, who will not spend a single unnecessary penny on infrastructure.

When I'm not home, air conditioners are both off and unplugged. So's the TV.

Back in the '80s, I lost my A/C, my refrigerator and my TV all at the same time due to a transformer going wonky - it cycled the power off and on quite a number of times in a short time, ending with a surge that sent blue sparks out of outlets.

Georgia Power's response? "Too bad, so sad." Not even my insurance company could budge them.

Feh.

 

[norgeway]

People dont realize...

On the other side of that transformer on the pole is 7200 volts with enough amperage to instantly fry whatever it comes in contact with...you included!!as with all mechanical things,problems can happen!!Those big metal towers you see thats upwards of 30,000 volts!

 

[vintagekitchen]

Sandy, I feel for ya..

The power company here is the same. Part of one of the old "rural electrification projects". Well I will say this, when they said the project was completed all those decades ago, they meant it! Upgrades and repairs which can in any way possibly be avoided, are avoided. That's why I use the surge protectors.

Situations like what you described with the transformers quickly cycling and damaging appliances are far too common in this area. A few years back the transformer at my grandparents house was going out, to the point it fried their tv and damaged several appliances, their power bill went through the roof from the wild voltage swings, and they had to deal with it for 3 months. The power company refused to do anything until it got so bad we could see sparks coming off the transformer at night.

2 years ago I lost my cable box, dishwasher, ceiling fan, and oven element due to a lightning strike to a transformer during a storm. I guess it's all part of electricity in rural areas, but I swear sometimes I think a generator would be less troublesome.

 

[norgeway]

One more story..

In my hometown of Lenoir NC, there are several small sub stations, in the early 70s one was struck by lightning, of course the power went out all over town, a good friend who is a Retired fireman responded to the call, their was a small grass fire which he put out, of course the power company was called, it just so happened it was a Sunday morning and the Supervisor for Duke Powers repair dept was on call so he went to see what could be done, the main breaker was tripped so he re set it, when he did the transformer exploded spraying boiling oil all over him, he lived a few hours but died from the burns,make no mistake,my Uncle who was an electrical contractor for 60 years has told me some stories that you wouldnt believe, electricity is a dangerous thing ,and one of these days our aging infrastructure will have to be re done.

 

[danemodsandy]

Kevin:

It's bad enough to do that to customers in a rural area, but Georgia Power is the major provider of electricity to freakin' Atlanta - a megalopolis of nearly six million people.

When I moved from Atlanta proper to its bedroom community of Marietta in '05, I went from Georgia Power to Cobb EMC. Life was instantly blissful, with the power steady as a rock.

Iowa has been pretty much the same. And this is the Midwest, where the storms can be awe-inspiring.

 

[washer111]

Whether or not you used a cheap surge suppressor, a couple of things come to mind:

~ When a surge hits the device at an "appropriate" trip voltage/amperage, there is a time delay between that voltage "hitting" the device, and the time for the device to divert excess capacity away from the main circuit
~ Some suppressors have higher clamping voltages - the voltage where excess power is diverted away from the line

I've attached the Wikipedia article for these devices below. What I would suggest in the future is you perhaps purchase very high-end equipment to protect the "most valuable" devices: This way, you (should) get a lower clamp voltage and perhaps better reaction time between a "hit" and power diversion.
That said, if expensive equipment offers better protection, I can't say if replacing those as frequently as lightning strikes in your vicinity would be viable against replacing stuff on the off chance the suppressor doesn't work exactly as it should...

Surge protector - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[xraytech]

We had a very nasty storm here this evening, I was at church conducting choir practice and we didn't know it was storming until the lights started dimming and the organ started sounding funky. I must say I couldn't flip that switch off fast enough. Hope the organ is alright.

Went to grandmas from there since it is only 1/4 mile away and the power there was only half voltage so I had to unplug the air conditioners and decided to sit through the storm on the veranda

 

[maytagbear]

This past Saturday........

the surge bar I have running my laptop, landline phone/answering machine, and modem........

The power supply/transformer/cord for my laptop died. The machine is fine, but.....

I was surprised and pleased that Radio Shack had a generic? one size runs most? transformer/cord, and the clerk was willing to open the package and see if it would start my computer---it did! Of course, the transformer/cord was 59.00 and tax, but better that than trying to come up with a new computer.

Usually, Ohio Edison/"First Energy'"s power is rather good, but for the time being, I am vigilant again about unplugging things.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[a440]

I have been hearing commercials from companies that offer whole house surge protection. These companies also talk about customers that get insurance deductions for installing these systems....
I just wonder how they work. Do they install one big protector in your power panel of your home?
Sounds interesting...but have not heard very much about it, and how it works.

 

[kb0nes]

Absolutely you can protect almost 100% from spikes and impulses. But its not as simple as just plugging in a surge supressor between your device and the wall. There are a lot of variables and unknowns in play here and you need an engineered system.

I'm not sure what caused your damage, you had brownouts (voltage dropouts) and maybe overvoltage events. Often the over voltage can be caused from inductive kicks from the transformers, especially big ones like the pole mounted jobs.

Sensitive items like computers need to be plugged into an uninterruptible power supply (UPS). A UPS has a large rechargeable storage battery and at the first sign of difficulty they isolate the load from the line and generate the AC power from the battery. This will allow the load to continue to function while being isolated from the hysterics the power on the line is experiencing. You will have a finite time on the battery but it would give enough time to properly shut down the computer etc. (many UPS's have a cable to the computer that will shut it down automatically). My rule with computers and UPS's is that ANY computer I care at all about will ALWAYS be on a UPS. If I don't mind losing that hard drive then maybe I don't care then. Side note all my UPS's are always the APC brand.

The surge supressors you mention are simply power strips that have solid state devices (MOV or Metal Oxide Varistors) in them that will conduct electricity when a certain voltage is reached. The idea is if the voltage starts to climb from a surge or a spike, the device will shunt the extra power to the neutral or ground line preventing the energy from reaching your device. These aren't a bad thing to have and they do work well, at least the decent ones. The Triplite Isobar brand is likely the best you can get and they have additional filtering in them that others lack. Note that these suppressors do NOTHING at all for power brownouts and sags. Bouncing power is the most common reason for failed or corrupted computer hard disks, you need a UPS for computers!

The best impulse suppressors wire into your power entrance panel (breaker panel). These have much greater surge current protection and they attempt to shunt the energy at the panel where it enters your home. Ideally these can be a first line of defense and your power strip suppressers can be the backup at your devices. The whole home models will protect everything in the home from spikes and overvoltages within the limits of their ability. Again they do nothing for any under voltage events.

Finally the last thing to keep in mind is that all connected lines need to be at a common ground potential. Its common to have your TV etc plugged into a power strip protector, but unless the cable entering the TV is also tied to the same ground at that point you are opening the door for dissimilar ground voltages and that can open the door for damage. Phone lines and computer network cables are other lines that can have differing grounds and cause the protection to be compromised.

I maintain a number of radio repeaters that are installed on various local water tanks. We have had direct lightnings strikes to our equipment and when its protected properly it never knows the antenna was just blown into pieces! See the attached photo for some damage found at one of my sites. Note there is steel that was vaporized next to that outlet. The equipment that was plugged in there is still working today

 

[arbilab]

Since lightning can do anything it wants and various utilities can be very sloppy about protection, your best coverage is low-deductible homeowners/renters insurance.

 

[alr2903]

Beware of "Land lines".

Phone lines as well as electric lines can be the culprit.  When we first moved into this house lightning zapped our modem and security system ( both connected to a "land line phone").  After we bundled phone internet and cable it has not happened again.  The phone line came into our house from across the street, the electric and "the bundle" both come in from the backyard.  I really believe the phone lines are in very poor shape. So many people have given up their landline to save money (who can blame them?) and rely totally on cellular. alr

 

[whirlcool]

About four years ago a surge knocked out the Kenmore dishwasher, stove & microwave we had. We contacted our insurance company and they made it seem all so easy. They told us just to get a letter from the power company that states we had a power surge on such and such a date and the insurance company would pay for the damage.

We called the power company and they said "We ain't admitting to nuthin'." Then they went on and told us to read the contract with them as we connect to their system at our own risk. And they didn't have any power meters monitoring our home so they couldn't tell us if we had a surge or not. So we ended up paying for new appliances.
We are in a somewhat rural area and our electrical system at the time was very old.
The power company said that it was installed in the 30's and hasn't been upgraded since.

But over the past few weeks they did upgrade the system. All new power poles and new wires. Even the wires for the underground electric in our area were replaced. This week the power company was hanging new transformers on the poles.

 

[tolivac]

The substation failure from the lightning strike-sounds like the "supervisor" that was sent out to solve the problem was not experienced-merely trying to reset a breaker on a system like that is DANGEROUS unless the transformers,breakers,and other equipment is tested-the lineman should test them with a Turns Ratio Tester-for the transformers,and a "Megger" for other items.At the plant where I work we do have "one shot" 4160V 3Ph circuit breakers for the transmitters,building LV power supplies.The Installer of our equipment mentioned we were the only customer that specified non remote resetable breakers.So when you turn the reset lever on our breakers----STAND TO THE SIDE-NEVER in front of the breaker-if a fault occurs-the force can blow the truck right out of the cabinet.and a 300 pound breaker truck hitting you won't make your day-along with the blast.The doors on the new switchgear cabinets are almost like bank vaults-but still stand to the side.Other systems installed by the contractor used remote reset-you are not at the breaker while reseting it.We had a power outage at our site several months ago-Duke Power-the protection built into the substation here is substantial--An insulator failed in our 4160V distrubution system-the substation switchgear also locked out the 4160V Cat genset.So the Duke power guys had to investigtate this-I did spot the insulator and pointed it out to them.The insulator was replaced-power restored.The sustation equipment even opened the 115Kv primary voltage to the substation.
For the pole pigs and other dist transformers-the neutral side of the transformer winding is grounded inside the transformer can-so if the rare event of a primary to secondary short in one of these it will blow the transformer primary fuse immiediately to prevent primary voltage from being fed to a LV circuit(208,120/240,480V)
For TOTAL power isolation-you would have to regenerate the power thru a motor gen set or a large invertor.The UPS is just that-a small invertor with a battery in it to provide power-originally UPS units were to power a system until a backup genset could be started and put on line.