KDI-17a

[tinkerer]

Hi,
I'm on to my next problem with this machine. The fill and drain cycles work but the wash cycle is very short and the rinse is non-existent. I hear the wash arm going around at the beginning of the wash cycle but, during the rinse cycle, all the machine does is fill and drain. The wash arm does not spray/rinse the dishes. Is this a malfunctioning timer?

HELP!

 

[toploader55]

Not an Expert... But

I would say that is a timer issue.

Stevet would know for sure

 

[bmr6969]

my guess would be ......

you may have a bad drain silinoid

 

[combo52]

Bad Drain Valve?

Or possibly something caught in it holding it slightly open, when this happens the water will be pumped down the drain before the valve opens for drain.

This was a fairly common problem on KA DWs when these machines were still around in large numbers.

John L.

 

[tinkerer]

I just installed a new drain valve, checked the inside of the machine and all the drain hoses so I doubt that's it. If it's a timer issue, can I buy a new timer that will work in a KDI-17A?

 

[bigalsf]

Hi, does the machine fill up at all? To check press the Full Cycle button. The machine will first do a short fill (about 30 sec) and then immediately drain (about 60 sec). Then the machine will fill for the first pre-rinse (about 2 min). When you hear the fill valve shut off open the door & check the water level. It should be up almost covering the top portion of the filter screen. If this is not the case then your fill valve is not working right. If the water level is correct, then let the machine continue & listen carefully. As soon as you don't hear the washing action happening when it should open the door & check the water level. If the water level is too low later in the cycle you could have a problem with three things:
1. Your fill valve solenoid is overheating & not working later in the cycle when it's gotten too hot (not very common)
2. Your timer is bad.
3. The water level control is not operating correctly (there is a small pressure switch connected to the sump area by a small rubber tube (front left side of sump). It is designed to stop the flow of water if there is too much in the tub. If the tube connecting the switch to the tub gets clogged it can cause the switch to operate shutting off the fill valve.

The solenoid is easy to check...just touch it (carefully & with the machine off!) If it's super hot that's the problem.

Refer to the service manual you downloaded to see how to disassemble the water level control switch components so you can check the tube (careful this tube can become brittle with age).

If it's a timer I think I have one, which you can have. Keep us posted.

 

[combo52]

Intermitent Inlet Valve Coils

Were actually a pretty common problem on DWs of this age, best test is to force the DW to fill 5 or 6 times in a row to see if the valve keeps working, if the valve is still orignal it would not be a bad idea to just replace it, they are still available from WP pt# 4170000

John L

 

[tinkerer]

New timer or fill valve? HELP!

Okay, here's what's happening:
Soak/Prewash cycle: fills to ~ 1/2" above top of filter, drains, brief wooshing (which I hope is the washer arm
rotating).

Wash cycle: Refill, wooshing for approx 4 min., no drain, water is ~1/2" above top of filter.

Rinse: Drain, no fill, drain again at 3/4 point in Rinse cycle: water level is slightly over top of sump pit.
There is no wooshing at all.

Dry cycle: drain opens and water level drops to bottom of sump.

What's going on here? Remember that I replaced the drain valve. I have a new fill valve which I have not installed but is this a timer problem?

 

[stevet]

Time for timer???

Does the machine do the same thing regardless of the cycle you selected? Electrically, it uses alll the same sets of contacts throughout the "full" cycles and adds a few extra duties when using the soak cycle. But even so, they way it sounds during your description above, it would indicate a bad timer which is missing making connections at the right time. The machine should never retain the water between a rinse and a wash and vice versa. And the inconsistent or no fills during the rinses don't look good either. Now if it works perfectly in the Normal cycle, then you may have a program switch problem. But I would definitely start looking for a timer and maybe a switch too.

 

[tinkerer]

I will skip the Prewash/Soak cycle and just try the wash. That's the way my family always used the machine because we always cleaned the plates pretty thoroughly before putting them in the machine. But someone here told me that you should always run it through all the cycles. Is this correct?

 

[combo52]

KDI-17A

You should always use the full cycle for full loads, the shorter cycles can be used for small loads of glasses, dusty dishes etc.

Pr-rinsing oils, sugars, and food acids [ orange juice, tomato products and salad dressings containing vinegar ] off the dishes before running the machine can easily cut the life of the DW in half and is not recommended by ANY DW manufacturer.

John L.

 

[DADoES]

KDI-17a Timer Sequence

 
The full sequence of the timer is 60 minutes.  I may not have the duration correct for all of the wash & rinse periods and dry but the sequence of actions is correct per my memory of our KDI-17a.

Prewash/Soak section
Line Purge
- fill for 1 minute
- drain for 1 minute
Prewash ¹ ²
- fill for 2 minutes (detergent dispenser opens)
- wash for 3 minutes
- drain for 1 minute
PreRinse
- fill for 2 minutes
- rinse for 2 minutes
- drain for 1 minute

Wash section
- fill for 2 minutes (detergent dispenser opens)
- wash for 9 minutes
- drain for 1 minute

Rinse section
Rinse 1
- fill for 2 minutes
- rinse for 2 minutes
- drain for 1 minute
Final Rinse
- fill for 2 minutes
- rinse for 4 minutes
- drain for 1 minute

Dry section
- pause for 5 minutes
- dry for 17 minutes (blower fan runs)
- pause for 1 minute

OFF

¹ When Soak cycle is selected, the Prewash changes:
- fill 2 minutes
- wash 1 minute
- pause 13 minutes
- drain 1 minute

² When Rinse Hold is selected the Prewash changes:
- fill 2 minutes
- rinse 1 minute
- pause 2 minutes
- drain 1 minute
The remainder of the timer sequence the machine does nothing - the timer advances to Off at the "normal" rate, turning every minute.

 

[tinkerer]

Next test

Why does pre-washing dishes shorten the life of the dishwasher? Or, do you mean starting it at the Wash cycle shortens the machine's life?

THE NEXT TEST:
I started the machine on wash. It filled, the washer arm turned for about 4 minutes with the water 1/2" above filter. Then I heard the timer ticking away (occasionally making little crunching sounds) for the rest of the cycle with nothing happening until it drained just before the start of the Rinse cycle.

Nothing happened during the Rinse cycle except for the drain valve opening and closing. No filling, no washer arm movement.

Then, on the the dry cycle. The heater and blower work during these cycles.

 

[washer111]

Pre-Rinsing your dishes is incredibly bad for your dishwasher (as John mentioned) AND your dishes. 

 

The chemicals, all very harsh, alkaline products, are circulating with nothing to "attack," such a food soil. When they can't suspend the food soil, they will begin to attack your dishes, resulting in etching and destruction of nice dinner sets. 

As for the dishwasher, all the parts inside the machine will be "attacked," resulting in the destruction of seals, racks, porcelain and so forth. 

 

So don't do unless you have a vermin problem or some other pressing excuse that isn't just out of habit. The KitchenAid machines are MORE than capable of cleaning the dirty dishes of most people. Some can make too much soil, but you have to be making lots of icky, glue-like foods for that to occur. 

 

[combo52]

Washer111 on pr-washing dishes

Very well put.

 

[tinkerer]

Do I need a new timer?

Thanks for that clarification.

THE NEXT TEST:
I started the machine on wash. It filled, the washer arm turned for about 4 minutes with the water 1/2" above filter. Then I heard the timer ticking away (occasionally making little crunching sounds) for the rest of the cycle with nothing happening until it drained just before the start of the Rinse cycle.

Nothing happened during the Rinse cycle except for the drain valve opening and closing. No filling, no washer arm movement.

Then, on the the dry cycle. The heater and blower work during these cycles.

Do I need a new timer and where would I find one?

 

[combo52]

KDI-17A DW Timers

You need a new timer, KDC and KDI-17 KA DWs had more than their share of timer problems, lots of burned and loose terminals and contacts, if you find a genuine KA-WP timer they even come with a few new leads to replace the wires going to and from the selector switch that most often burned up. Also before going on a search for a timer I would remove the selector sw and see if it has any loose or burned terminals, if so look for a SS also.

John L.

 

[tinkerer]

Where to find a timer

Hi,
I looked at the exploded diagram in the KDI-17a manual and found the Main Timer Assembly,
Part #C-115403 but can't find it anywhere on the internet. Does anyone have any idea where I might find one? Is there a nother part number that I could substitute?

When you say I may need a new Selector switch, do you mean a part associated with the push buttons?

Thanks,
T.

 

[stevet]

Newer part number

The timer number you stated above was changed to 4161395. See if you can find one with that number. Maybe that guy who had all the timers for sale on Ebay a few weeks back still has them. Someone on here should be able to provide the link and you can check with him.

Good Luck
Steve