kds 18 poor cleaning

[epixstar128]

Hi i have a kds 18 supera that has never cleaned my dishes very well.
I cleaned out the water inlet valve which help a little. I have also ordered a new support. But have not gotten it in yet.
Is there anything i should. Look for to make this
Clean better

 

[toploader55]

WOW !!!

A KDS 18 that doesn't clean well ? That's Rare.

Check your filters so that they are not plugged. Is your water supply valve all the way on ?

Are the Spray Arm Nozzles clean ?

If you have a New Wash Arm Support on order, how did you know the old one is shot ?

stevet is needed for a consultation.

 

[machinehead]

An idea...

I've had a lot of problems on my own stuff (kds-17a) with the OEM support arms (bronze support piece that the hydrosweep rests on vs. plastic on the new designs.) what I found was, there are at least 2 designs of the support arm. One has the center peg closed over underneath (cast in presumably Bakelite or equivalent) and the other one was wide open. All this visible if you take the support off, flip it upside down and look underneath. Mine was open, and pump pressure with hot water over 30+ years loosened it up to the point it could float when running, going up about 1/4" under pressure. This jammed the hydrosweep up too high, creating too much tension for it to rotate freely under full water pressure. I found that by pulling up gently on the arm, stopping a cycle during washing, and attempting to move it. Not having any replacement support arms, I repaired and slightly modified the original. After at least 10 full cycles, so far so good! Water level is another biggie. However, this is only my .02 and Dr. Steve T. Is the KA authority. It's frustrating when the it'll-clean-everything machine doesn't quite do that. Good luck, hope you find the answers you need!

-Chris

 

[combo52]

Poor Cleaning KDS-18 DW

Actually this is THE MOST COMMON service complaint from customers on about any KA DW from the 15s-the 22 series.

 

KA DWs while very good machines overall were a little bit overly complicated and were much more often plagued by things going wrong that impacted their ability to clean well.

 

Most Common Problems,

1 clogged wash filter,

2 detergent dispensers that do not open [ often because of clogged wash filter or bad inlet valve, bad wash arm support or item stuck in drain valve ]

3 Bad inlet valve which allows insufficient water flow [ almost NEVER a clogged inlet screen ]

4 broken wash arm support and worn lower wash arm.

5 Item caught in drain valve holding it open or blocking a full drain, on 15-20 models

6 Bad Drain check valve on  21 and 22 models [ CV does not seal any longer which allows pump to pull air back into DW when washing and rinsing which greatly reduces water pressure especially in top rack ]

7 Bad-broken drain impeller in 15-20 machines that causes poor drain.

8 Hole in rubber tube going to top wash arm in 18-22 models, and feed spout for upper wash arm feed out of place or missing altogether.

 

 

There are also a large host of problems related to detergent usage and water temperature and condition that will affect ANY DW ability to do a decent cleaning job.

 

[rp2813]

Water temperature is the first thing I'd check.  It should be at 120 degrees or higher, and you should run the tap to get it up to that temperature before starting the dishwasher.

 

My sister got rid of a perfectly good KDS-18 because she said it didn't get anything clean and even spewed black particles onto the contents.  It was simply a case of her not using the machine enough (like almost never -- she's single) and that it needed a good cleaning and de-crusting from sitting unused so much of the time.  With her being 350 miles away, I wasn't able to do the work for her myself and save her the expense of a new dishwasher.

 

[epixstar128]

The top arm looks like it never moves. The brass ring in the support arm came out. I cleaned the inlet filter and the detergent cups open when they need too.

 

[epixstar128]

Pic of the support arm pin

 

[machinehead]

Hmmm

Yep, that's it. The older style that I have. Did you pull it out or was it already loose? On the kds-17a, the overall height of the pin in the support casting I measured at 5.400" inches. (Measured on a surface block with a height gage-- accurate to .001" on the gage, I'm a machinist by day). If it can move or wobble in the hole in the casting of the wash arm support, that's no Gouda. I applied some red loctite to the pin, after setting the height to match the other support arm that I had that wasn't broken. Be careful with that brass ring: snapped both of mine in half, even being extra gentle with them. Took 3 tries, but I made a replacement one that worked just fine. Sometimes that roll pin in the brass cone/funnel near your fingers in your picture loosens up and/or half of it breaks off, allowing the support "flute" (funnel? Column? Thingy?) to wobble and or move. Again, what I ran into o'er here on my stuff. May not be common...

 

[stevet]

Who is going to tell this guy to:

Get yourself a new wash arm support. Don't bother trying to fix it. You may be missing other pieces already. They are NLA but can be had thru members here or maybe on EBAY.

What you have experienced is actually very common as John Combo52)mentioned above. I can remember many years ago the pin on our KDS15 had loosened up and it was the type that was cast into the phenolic housing. I figured that I had nothing to lose by trying, so I heated the knurled section up and then just melted it into the housing. It worked for quite a while like that and the spare one I had bought stayed on the shelf until the original crapped out again. Later ones had a roll pin thru the bottom of the shaft and housing which did not really prove to be much better.

I am sure that John will have some spares in decent condition and f not, let me know and I should have one you can utilize.

 

[epixstar128]

It pulled right out i ordered of eBay part number
4162724 is that the correct support. Arm?
Will i have to replace the wash arm too?
I saw some older post for a conversion to a newer style support arm is there any part numbers to do that conversion.

 

[machinehead]

Better luck than me

I watched eBay for months and got nothing. Not by PN, not by various search terms, nothing. Had no choice but to fix what I had. I'm very glad you seem to have found what you were looking for. New and shiny is often where it's at in parts...

 

[epixstar128]

Hope its the right part spent 50 bucks on it

 

[stevet]

New style wash arm and support

I would highly recommend the new style wash arm as it makes the 4way Hydrosweep pale in comparison. I put one into my KDS18 years ago and it works much better that the original. It will pump the water higher up into the wash chamber and had often times flipped dishes in the upper rack.
I have posted pics on here a few times already and will repost them when I find them.

But the problem is that the cost of converting your machine with all the new parts will be very cost prohibitive. You should be able to use all the parts from a Hobart SR24 but will have to modify the strainer screen as the SR lacked the Kitchenaid style heating element in the sump and the strainer fit down into the sump and came up the sides of it. Really did a fantastic job of keeping stuff out of the pump but you would have to undo the welds on the strainer.

When I converted my machine back in the early 90's, they were still making the WM5 series and it came with a snap in curved section so I only had to take it apart to make it work.

I will check the prices for you or anyone who wants to go in that direction and you can buy the parts at any local Hobart office, but remember it may not be cost effective and you cannot put the new wash arm support on the old lower wash pump housing. They are incompatible.So you have to go all the way with all the parts or go home!

 

[epixstar128]

Cool thanks get me the info i will prob do that.
I work on hvacr for a living gets old working on your stuff when you get home

 

[maytaga806]

Maybe a new wash impeller, or maybe somehtings clogged in the wash arms. ALWAYS clean out the wash arms regularly.

 

[epixstar128]

Impeller looks good will wash out the arms

 

[stevet]

Hobart revised wash arm

Here are the pics of the single arm washarm and support that I installed in my KDS18. As you can see, the upper support has 8 screws versus the original 4 but the lower housing has the original 4 and will fit right on to the black motor support housing. You can still use your original coarse filter but have to change the fine mesh filter to work with the new wash arm.

The first picture is the lower and upper housings and the next is the wash arm. The schmutz in the corner is just garage dust and debris from when I turned the machin on its back. The white stuff on the heating element was a combination of our then 6gpg hard water and the finish tablets without the phosphates.Left that horrible white stuff on the element and inside glasses and such.

 

[stevet]

Next up: the washarm!

This is the original design of the wash arm used on the WM5 series and kind of carried over into the LX early series. The wash and the rinse arms came with the little rubber cleanout plugs at the end of the arms. At home they will last for years but in commercial applications, hi temps and harsher detergents would make them get all messed up and were often lost or tossed!
The new styles have done away with the caps. In fact, I even had an arm where I had a co worker weld covers over the openings so i did not have to worry about the plugs.

Also, note that the arm is retained on the support by a knurled nut and if you look closely, the hole pattern is exactly the same as the 4 way Hydrosweep arm so the cleaning patter is basically the same but with more pressure and a faster rotation speed.

 

[epixstar128]

Looks great do you have any of the pn by chance to do this conversion