KDS-58 Rack odd question

[jkbff]

SteveT,

When I put that wash arm support on, I stole it off of a KDI-58 that seemed to be in rougher shape than my KDS. The wash arm support on the KDI had been replaced because it seemed like it was a re-designed one from the one I took off my KDS...

The point of all of this was that there was a seal on the KDI's support and there wasn't an area for me to put the seal on my KDS... would this be part of my problem? Seal/gasket I guess.. A round piece of rubber which of course ripped when I lifted the support off the pump.

I ask because I checked the impeller when I replaced the support and felt for nicks etc, and didn't see a crack either.. (I'm used to working on direct air vacuums, so I thought I'd go through that part at least.)

I wished I would have taken pictures when I did all of this but I was so excited to get the wash arm going I just did it in a hurry.

By the way, Thanks for all the replies everyone!

--
Josh

 

[stevet]

You Need that gasket

The design of that wash arm support requires a square o-ring in the groove in the lower pump housing so you will need to get one. You can lose alot of water that way.

The part number for the seal gasket is 435544 available at Hobart.List is 2.40

Also, you should still remove the wash impeller and check it for any damage or if the vanes are worn. The original impeller was an open faced impeller and the newer style was a closed face affair with IIRC, 2 more vanes in it. It does need to be shimmed so you can maximize the pump pressure.
There are 2 different shim gauges.. one for the working ht of the shaft seal/drain impeller and the other sets the clearance for the wash impeller

The part numbers for them are 274690 wash impeller gauge 2.40
274691 seal working ht gauge 20.10
Both are available at Hobart.
So check further and let us know.

 

[jkbff]

OK, so I got my racks today.. ... They don't fit Mainly because all 3 said they had specs of 19.75" and none of them matched each other. One is 19 11/16" one is 19 1/4" and the last is 19 5/8".

 

All is not lost. I am going to bolt strips of acrylic as shims/rails for the racks to slide on... Hopefully my plan will work.. I just need to figure out a solution that won't rust or mold when its all together. I imagine sealing it or bonding it will be involved some how...

 

In the back of my mind I keep thinking I should just go get a few packs of those cheap flex cutting boards from walmart and cut strips and make layered support shims on the sides.. They'd be NSF etc... I think....

 

SteveT, I guess the reason I didn't think there was a gasket in the arm support was because I didn't see the one that was already there... The one that came off of the donated support was stuck to it, I presumed it went around the top part... So, there is indeed a seal there... I'll have to order the shims and get an impeller from you or some where at some point though because when I spun the impeller by hand it was rubbing on the housing on one side. 

 

[stevet]

Got your message....

Josh,
I just re-read your message and may have figured out your problem with the non turning lower wash arm as well as poor top rack results.

You said you had changed the wash arm support previously. Well, there IS a right and a wrong way to install it!

If you are one screw off in any direction you will not line up the channels for the water to go from the wash impeller up into the wash arm and will also cut down the amount of water going to the top arm. If you are more than one screw off in either direction, you will make it even worse!

But Despair not! The wash arm support is actually marked "FRONT" and should be facing towards the front when installed. If you line it up properly you will have a fully functioning pump.

Put the O-ring into the groove on the lower half and secure the top back down and give it a try. Let us know what happens.

As far as the impeller hitting the housing when you turn it by hand, you have to secure the lower half down with the screws from the top plus 4 spacer washers that would mimic the thickness of the top housing in order to determine if the impeller is actually hitting the lower housing. That is also the way you would do the clear and touch spacing on it. My guess is the impeller is fine and not touching and that you had that upper part installed incorrectly.

One last thing... Don't get worried if the "front" is not pointing directly dead front to the machine front. Sometimes the lower portions of the pumps were installed a bit off front and will make the top part seem out of alignment.

If you look inside the upper part and see how the water gets channelled in the lower part, you will see why it is so important to orient the top properly.

 

[stevet]

Off the rack isn't always what you expected

I also did not want to comment on you buying the new racks until you reported back if they fit or not.

William posted a picture of a glass compartmented rack in his machine and if you notice, it is very square in design. They are usually much closer to being a true "20x20" rack as the industry would refer to them. The peg and flat racks are dimensionally smaller than the glass racks and can vary in size from the various manufacturers. If you are still dead set on using a rack like that in your machine, you can find glass racks that can be custom built in that you can add or subtract sections to them to make them taller or shorter. They are usually held together with long stainless steel screws. I would stop in at a restaurant supply dealer and see what they have available.

You could conceivably get a rack like William has and use only the bottom section and then lay your pots and stuff right on to the rack and they would sit on the walls of the compartments. Also, if you are intending to have better scrubbing action, DON'T use the flat combination rack as it will reduce the water going thru it by well over 50%. I would take the peg rack and cut the pegs out of it and get full water action thru it.

And remember one other thing. If you intend to remove the upper rack so you can put stock pots into the machine, they will probably not come clean as you will have no way to stop the water from shooting out of the top manifold and will not get full pressure out of the lower arm,even with the upper rack in place. The lower arm will probably pump no higher than the China Guard so it may not reach high enough into a tall pot.

You could wash stock pots in the 10,11,12,14,15,16,and 17 series by removing the upper rack since all the water went thru the lower arm would pound against the top of the tank as a matter of design! That little constant rinse would have no bearing on the washing ability of the lower arms in the 16 and 17.

 

[toploader55]

Peg type rack

You can also purchase what is called a Open Cup and Bowl Rack

It has large openings to let maximum water pressure through. I use this rack for washing 5 gallon pails in the AM 14.

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/carlisle-rb14-blue-open-bowl-rack/271RB.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping&gclid=CMTx_fjckroCFYmf4AodpzIApQ

 

[jkbff]

I modified my rack tonight.. This was just as a test fit with some random parts I fould at the vacuum shop I work at but it turned out pretty well!

It looks like I need to clean my door... Also, I noticed a chip in the porcelain. What can I fill that with?

I put a few more pictures in the album but this is the one that is most on point! I was one nylon spacer short on this side, but have a parts order coming in with another tube of spacers. I've gotta finish the other two racks (the one with pegs and the combo open rack).
From AutomaticWasher.org

 

[jkbff]

OOO i need to finish my other racks.. LOL

I got wayy to busy wayyy to fast...

Stevet, did you ever get those part numbers for that arm conversion?

 

[toploader55]

flea bay

Little pricey though

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[jkbff]

Hrm. I hope that lasts until after I take delivery of my new lincoln... I'll have to grab that..

What a great find! thanks for posting that

 

[rustyspaatz]

You could try simply cutting all or most of the tines out of your existing rack, and coating the newly exposed metal nubs with dishwasher rack coating. Let it dry thoroughly before using again.

It might cost you $30+/-

 

[stevet]

Pricey??

Ed, good find on that Hobart kit. The list prices for those kits noted in the ad range from mid 500's to over 700 bucks!

Josh, if you really want to invest that kind of money into a machine, then you wil have a set up that will never wear out and will probably flip your dishes in the bottom rack and maybe even in the top one too! It does that in my KDS-18!

 

[jkbff]

And there's the magical phrase I was looking for!

"that will never wear out"

Lets not forget this is a KDS-58, so when I move, it goes with me... And truly, to me, it is a timeless piece

I'll get to this setup eventually.. I suppose if I am going that route though, I should find someone to do it for me so they can make sure everything else will fall under the 'never wear out' category.. Too bad there aren't any (as I haven't found any yet) kitchenaid collectors around here ... A second or third set of eyes never hurt anything. Think the Hobart guy makes house calls? LOL