Kenmore 80 Series (Year 2000) Neutral Drain Delicate

[blockeight88]

Hello,

I have purchased a "refurbished" Kenmore 80 Series washer from a local appliance shop. The unit is from the year 2000, per the model number and serial. The machine is in very good condition. I opened it up to clean and had my friend install a new lid switch.

Every time I set the machine to delicate, or extra slow it does a drain spin. I was told this is not normal. I then read that the machine may need to warm up or something, I am not sure. But on regular and heavy duty speeds it's fine.

Is this something to worry about?

To add, when it delicate it will start neutral draining for about 3 seconds, then make a loud clunk noise then spin/drain.

I have a 3 month fully covered warranty on the unit. However, I would prefer to gather some input from washing machine experts first.

 

[DADoES]

 
Neutral drain failure, of course, is not normal operation but it won't damage the machine.  It will cause improper release of fabric softener if the machine has a centrifugal, agitator-mounted softener dispenser and you use it ... softener will release when drain-spin pauses after 2 mins (the point at which spin would normally begin after neutral drain).

Contributing factors are

1) Thickened transmission oil.  Can be caused by age and/or operating the machine in a cold environment.

2) Worn neutral-drain components in the transmission.  A low-cost repair kit is available.  Requires pulling and opening the transmission which is a messy job but not difficult.  Draining and replacing the transmission oil during the repair (which is a good idea but may also be considered optional) takes care of that factor.

Both factors are more likely to cause neutral drain failure at slower agitation speeds, less-so at high speed, but all speeds (eventually) may be affected.

 

[blockeight88]

Thank you. I have the machine running now on regular and it just did it. Perhaps I'll have it serviced.

 

[DADoES]

 
Be aware that some (many?) servicers won't do the neutral drain kit, they replace the transmission instead which is more cost but hopefully your 3-months warranty would cover it.

 

[blockeight88]

I read that. So wouldn't technically replacing the transmission be better?

 

[DADoES]

 
Personally I'd do the neutral drain kit (but I can DIY it).  All "new" transmissions now may be refurbed by either Whirlpool or I've heard Corecentric is/has been/was doing them.  I've run across reports that replacements sometimes run noisier, it's a crapshot on that point.

 

[repairguy]

I’ve installed several new or rebuilt, however they come from whirlpool, direct drive transmissions over the past couple of years and every one of them was noisy.

 

[blockeight88]

I’ll just leave it then and use the downy ball. As long as it’s not hurting the machine. I tend to wash small loads, so maybe that’s contributing to it. Maybe I’ll run the machine in spin mode before actually starting the wash. Maybe that can help since it needs to warm up?

 

[toploadloyalist]

The same happens in Whirlpools of that time.

 

[blockeight88]

So if I wanted to replace the old transmission with a new one, that would fix the issue? I see this unit is brand new? Can anyone advise?

https://partsdr.com/part/3360629-transmission

 

[qsd-dan]

A complete transmission may be your only option now. Up until recently, $20 would get you an entire kit to rebuild these transmissions (Part# 388253A) but Whirlpool discontinued them and no aftermarket company that I know of has offered one yet. It appears that Whirlpool is aggressively trying to force these machines into the scrapyard so they can sell you a new one.

 

[blockeight88]

Thank you. So would I need any other parts, or would just the transmission in the link above cut it? I ask because the company I want to use for the repair does not supply parts.

So I am not sure if the transmission would include everything, such as the oil.

I know nothing about any of this.

 

[DADoES]

 
Oh my ... wasn't aware the neutral drain kit is gone NLA.  Sucks BIG TIME how many parts are going away.  Direct-drives were produced late as 2012 for the coin-op market.

Leastwise I have one neutral drain kit on-hand, unless maybe there's another stashed in one of the closets that I don't recall.

 

[DADoES]

 
Yay, I found another neutral drain kit.

Replacement transmissions are filled with oil, ready to install.  I didn't recall for sure if a coupler is included.  The photo at PartsDr shows the transmission half of a coupler on it, assuming that's accurate.  Your motor will have the other half already on it (and the rubber bushing to be reused), if a full coupler set is not included with the new transmission.

 

[repairguy]

I guess since it is close enough to me he 10 year mark since the direct drive machines have ceased to be built there will be a lot of NLA parts. I hate to see it as much as the next direct drive enthusiast but in this day and age I feel whirlpool was gracious to continue the parts as long as they did.

 

[maytag85]

Whirlpool is evil for discontinuing parts for the direct drive washers and like QSD-DAN said they are deliberately trying to force good machines into the scrap yard. Whirlpool clearly no longer cares about customers anymore and they only care about the gullible consumers and customers that don’t know any better. I feel bad for the repair techs who have to put up with this crap since the newer Whirlpool top loaders use the cheaply made transmission/gearbox in them that tend to crap out after 5 years of use and AW user Eurekastar has had to deal with the transmission crapping out in his newer Maytag commercial washer.

 

[repairguy]

Not “me he” should’ve been “the”

 

[whitewhiskers]

lots of rebuild kits available on eBay

There's a seller on eBay who is selling the kit 388253A for $25, free shipping, claims to have more than 10 available.

My 30 year old DD, my profile picture, seldom does a neutral drain after the wash cycle, but always after the rinse. It's all very random. I had assumed the fault was with the mechanical relays on the timer board, which have been a source of problems for many years. Now reading this thread I'm not sure.

What happens is the machine will proceed after a brief pause from wash agitation to a spin out of water which may last a minute. Then the machine stops, as if the lid had been lifted, then spin starts again for the normal time.

I keep thinking I should have a spare coupler on hand as spinning the basket with a full load of water must place a large strain on the coupler. But so far there haven't been any faults so things just keep going and going.

 

[blockeight88]

@ DADoES

So replacing the entire transmission will fix the neutral drain, correct? Do you know if this transmission is likely to be more noisy than the original, like other posters have stated above?

Also would this be the coupling set needed:

https://www.searspartsdirect.com/product/49rff5roqg-0026-110/id-3364003

 

[blockeight88]

So I ran my washer on heavy duty, then directly after did a regular/fast load and both times it neutral drained. Hmmmmm...

 

[combo52]

DD Washer Parts

DD washers were in production through 2017 in the 24 & 27" top load stack machines.

 

I would not buy a new transmission for a DD machine from WP, the last few we got were noisy and three failed in less than a year.

 

You are better off buying a RB unit from Core-Centric's or finding a good used one or trying to RB yourself.

 

John L.

 

[blockeight88]

Would you have a link for a refurbished one from Core Centric? All I am seeing is current washing machines, not parts.

 

[DADoES]

 
This online offering says it's a rebuilt by Corecentric.

3360629R Transmission

Also Amazon

What I heard in the past about new ones is that the casting molds for the housings (and perhaps some of the internal gears) are/were aged and getting a bit out-of-spec and WP didn't/doesn't want to invest in re-upping them.

The internal gears (except the spin gear) are metal (steel or cast iron) and don't catch much wear in the oil bath during operation so can run for years.  The spin gear is nylon/plastic and is included with the neutral drain kit.

You say that you're not mechanically-inclined so it may not be reasonable for you to try the refurb DIY (if you can nab a kit), although you may have some aptitude that you just haven't yet tested.  Perhaps a capable friend or family member?  There are videos on YouTube.

A tricky aspect is anchoring and supporting the transmission securely and level so the oil doesn't spill out when opening it and reassembling it.  It won't sit level by itself, need a workbench vise or some sort of support frame.

I would do it for you at cost of the parts and supplies ... but you and your machine are there and I'm here.

 

[blockeight88]

@ DADoES

I really appreciate your help, I do. I'm sure I can figure something out. I just want to be clear, make sure to avoid buying a new transmission, correct? I'm not likely to have issues buying the one you listed from Corecentric? Maybe a stupid question, but this would automatically include the neutral drain kit, right?

I'm learning as I go lol.

 

[DADoES]

 
Neutral drain parts are inside part/parcel of the transmission gearing and function.  An assembled transmission has them already installed.

(Note that there is a transmission version *without* neutral drain ... early direct-drive models prior to late 1984 did a spin-drain by design, no neutral.)

Couple videos covering how to do the repair ... the procedure inside the transmission, not details on pulling and replacing the transmission into the machine.

(Lorain Furniture - Eugene is a member here)

 

[blockeight88]

Thank you. While I would love to do it myself, I simply do not have that kind of skill, nor patience.

So servicing it would be my only option. Based on the input in this thread, the most practical thing to do is replace the transmission, due to the Neutral Drain Kit no longer being available.

 

[DADoES]

 
WhiteWhiskers post above referenced availability on eBay.  I find two seller accounts that may be the same source under different names.  I bought a couple items from one of them in Feb.  I ordered two more neutral drain kits this evening.

 

[blockeight88]

Do the rebuilt tranmissions by Corecentric run into any issues down the line? Or are they noisy like the WP ones?

 

[blockeight88]

Good news. I am getting the machine completely serviced free of charge. The place I bought it from will be installing a rebuilt transmission.

 

[jben]

There was no plastic gear in my ND kit

A month or so ago, my similar Kenmore 80 was doing a spin drain for the first one or two times during each use but then it would start doing the normal ND after that.

I elected to install a new ND kit and I've since ran four test loads and it has ND each and every time since then. I don't know if it was the ND parts or the fresh 90w GL-4 gear oil.

The ND kit that I purchased did NOT come with the replacement nylon/plastic gear. Maybe there are different kits or maybe I got some old stock kit. All the teeth on my old plastic gear still appeared to be in good shape.

My Kenmore will be transported 600 miles around the end of this month for use by my daughter. Hopefully it is now ready to provide dependable service for a few more years. I had previously purchased what I thought was a clean and nice Maytag SAV model back in October and it started leaking from center tub after only three months. That was before I started reading old threads here in the AW forums! I wish I'd started with a WP/KM DD to begin with but I just didn't know then.

I try and document on the back of the appliance (and other areas) what repairs I've completed so hopefully it might help someone down the road to know more of it's history. Of course that may no longer be much of a concern with the current 6 years and done manufacturing standards.