Kenmore 80 Series (Year 2000) Neutral Drain Delicate

[combo52]

DD Washer Parts

DD washers were in production through 2017 in the 24 & 27" top load stack machines.

 

I would not buy a new transmission for a DD machine from WP, the last few we got were noisy and three failed in less than a year.

 

You are better off buying a RB unit from Core-Centric's or finding a good used one or trying to RB yourself.

 

John L.

 

[blockeight88]

Would you have a link for a refurbished one from Core Centric? All I am seeing is current washing machines, not parts.

 

[DADoES]

 
This online offering says it's a rebuilt by Corecentric.

3360629R Transmission

Also Amazon

What I heard in the past about new ones is that the casting molds for the housings (and perhaps some of the internal gears) are/were aged and getting a bit out-of-spec and WP didn't/doesn't want to invest in re-upping them.

The internal gears (except the spin gear) are metal (steel or cast iron) and don't catch much wear in the oil bath during operation so can run for years.  The spin gear is nylon/plastic and is included with the neutral drain kit.

You say that you're not mechanically-inclined so it may not be reasonable for you to try the refurb DIY (if you can nab a kit), although you may have some aptitude that you just haven't yet tested.  Perhaps a capable friend or family member?  There are videos on YouTube.

A tricky aspect is anchoring and supporting the transmission securely and level so the oil doesn't spill out when opening it and reassembling it.  It won't sit level by itself, need a workbench vise or some sort of support frame.

I would do it for you at cost of the parts and supplies ... but you and your machine are there and I'm here.

 

[blockeight88]

@ DADoES

I really appreciate your help, I do. I'm sure I can figure something out. I just want to be clear, make sure to avoid buying a new transmission, correct? I'm not likely to have issues buying the one you listed from Corecentric? Maybe a stupid question, but this would automatically include the neutral drain kit, right?

I'm learning as I go lol.

 

[DADoES]

 
Neutral drain parts are inside part/parcel of the transmission gearing and function.  An assembled transmission has them already installed.

(Note that there is a transmission version *without* neutral drain ... early direct-drive models prior to late 1984 did a spin-drain by design, no neutral.)

Couple videos covering how to do the repair ... the procedure inside the transmission, not details on pulling and replacing the transmission into the machine.

(Lorain Furniture - Eugene is a member here)

 

[blockeight88]

Thank you. While I would love to do it myself, I simply do not have that kind of skill, nor patience.

So servicing it would be my only option. Based on the input in this thread, the most practical thing to do is replace the transmission, due to the Neutral Drain Kit no longer being available.

 

[DADoES]

 
WhiteWhiskers post above referenced availability on eBay.  I find two seller accounts that may be the same source under different names.  I bought a couple items from one of them in Feb.  I ordered two more neutral drain kits this evening.

 

[blockeight88]

Do the rebuilt tranmissions by Corecentric run into any issues down the line? Or are they noisy like the WP ones?

 

[blockeight88]

Good news. I am getting the machine completely serviced free of charge. The place I bought it from will be installing a rebuilt transmission.

 

[jben]

There was no plastic gear in my ND kit

A month or so ago, my similar Kenmore 80 was doing a spin drain for the first one or two times during each use but then it would start doing the normal ND after that.

I elected to install a new ND kit and I've since ran four test loads and it has ND each and every time since then. I don't know if it was the ND parts or the fresh 90w GL-4 gear oil.

The ND kit that I purchased did NOT come with the replacement nylon/plastic gear. Maybe there are different kits or maybe I got some old stock kit. All the teeth on my old plastic gear still appeared to be in good shape.

My Kenmore will be transported 600 miles around the end of this month for use by my daughter. Hopefully it is now ready to provide dependable service for a few more years. I had previously purchased what I thought was a clean and nice Maytag SAV model back in October and it started leaking from center tub after only three months. That was before I started reading old threads here in the AW forums! I wish I'd started with a WP/KM DD to begin with but I just didn't know then.

I try and document on the back of the appliance (and other areas) what repairs I've completed so hopefully it might help someone down the road to know more of it's history. Of course that may no longer be much of a concern with the current 6 years and done manufacturing standards.

 

[stan]

Matt

Thats good that a tech is coming from the place you bought it from !
I have replaced the neutral drain on my 80 series a couple of years back.
What’s a little confusing to me, is that yours dose it’s neutral drain on regular and heavy. But not when set to delicate?
The first thing I thought of as a read your problem, was that you may have a bad timer?
It will be interesting to know when the trans is replaced (fresh ND included) if that solves the problem?
Keep us posted, as inquiring minds want to know.

 

[qsd-dan]

If thick gear lube is a contributing factor to skipping a neutral drain, perhaps using thinner weight oil such as 80/90 or even 75/90 may be a remedy.

Is there any yellow metal parts in these transmissions? If not, any conventional/synthetic GL5 lube should be ok.[this post was last edited: 4/24/2021-04:30]

 

[blockeight88]

UPDATE: I had a tech look at the machine and he believes it's a bad timer. He told me that the timer basically talks to the transmission and this is why it's slipping. So we'll see if that fixes it.

 

[combo52]

Reply #32

This should be fun, The problem you describe is a bad transmission.

 

Ask the tech if you can keep the [ bad ] timer you might need it in the future.

 

John L.

 

[blockeight88]

We'll see. I believe someone else pointed out it may be a bad timer in this thread.

 

[DADoES]

 
Functioning of the timer can be confirmed by observing the operational sequence.

1) The motor should turn off briefly (5-ish seconds) as the timer turns from the last increment of both the wash or rinse agitation period to the drain increment.

2) Drain (neutral mode, no spin or agitate) for two minutes.  If there was the motor pause as the timer turns but spin-drain occurs (either immediately or it engages before another motor pause occurs), then the problem is the transmission not the timer.

3) Another brief motor pause as the timer turns from drain to spin (which allows the neutral drain components in the transmission to release into spin mode).

Check that the proper motor pause sequences occur on both the Ultra Clean/regular cycle and on the Permanent Press cycle.

The motor/transmission runs in one direction for agitation mode, the reverse direction for spin mode (and neutral drain).  Agitation resets the transmission into neutral drain mode.  The next time it runs in the reverse, the set neutral drain parts hold the transmission from spin mode.  Pause the motor, neutral drain releases, start it again in the same reverse direction and spin occurs.  From this point spin will continue to occur immediately every time the motor/transmission runs in the same reverse direction ... unless some agitation happens first (the motor/transmission runs in the other direction, 10+ seconds should be enough).

 

[blockeight88]

^ Well according to that, it would appear to the be transmission. But the guy said the bad timers can cause the transmission to slip and do a spin drain. Mine also has no issues whatsoever doing a neutral drain on Heavy Duty and regular. It's just that damn delicate setting.

 

[DADoES]

 
The timer controls when the motor runs and whether it runs clockwise or counterclockwise.  The timer has no electrical connection into the transmission.  Nothing is electrically connected to the transmission, it's a purely mechanical device that is run by a physical linkage to the motor.

 

[ozzie908]

DADoES

Would you explain in terms I will understand how the neutral drain works please is it by weight ie when its drained enough water out it will spin or is timed for so long ? I really do not comprehend how it knows when to spin. As you know most FL over here work via a pressure switch and I do recall a Hotpoint top loader we had would not spin until a solenoid was activated so it had a electric link.

Thank you so much Austin

 

[DADoES]

 
Neutral drain is completely a mechanical function inside the transmission.

The spin gear is not driven in agitate direction.  There are weighted and spring cams and levers in the transmission that set during agitation and function to lock the spin gear from turning when the motor first changes to the reverse direction after an agitation period ... when neutral drain begins.

The cams and levers release when the motor stops after drain.  The spin gear then is driven when the motor restarts in the same direction (reversed from agitation) for spin, and the spin gear is driven.

A cam and gear on the agitate shaft also shift one way or the other to engage or disengage agitation, depending on which direction the motor & transmission are running.