Kenmore 80 Series (Year 2000) Neutral Drain Delicate

[stan]

Matt

Thats good that a tech is coming from the place you bought it from !
I have replaced the neutral drain on my 80 series a couple of years back.
What’s a little confusing to me, is that yours dose it’s neutral drain on regular and heavy. But not when set to delicate?
The first thing I thought of as a read your problem, was that you may have a bad timer?
It will be interesting to know when the trans is replaced (fresh ND included) if that solves the problem?
Keep us posted, as inquiring minds want to know.

 

[qsd-dan]

If thick gear lube is a contributing factor to skipping a neutral drain, perhaps using thinner weight oil such as 80/90 or even 75/90 may be a remedy.

Is there any yellow metal parts in these transmissions? If not, any conventional/synthetic GL5 lube should be ok.[this post was last edited: 4/24/2021-04:30]

 

[blockeight88]

UPDATE: I had a tech look at the machine and he believes it's a bad timer. He told me that the timer basically talks to the transmission and this is why it's slipping. So we'll see if that fixes it.

 

[combo52]

Reply #32

This should be fun, The problem you describe is a bad transmission.

 

Ask the tech if you can keep the [ bad ] timer you might need it in the future.

 

John L.

 

[blockeight88]

We'll see. I believe someone else pointed out it may be a bad timer in this thread.

 

[DADoES]

 
Functioning of the timer can be confirmed by observing the operational sequence.

1) The motor should turn off briefly (5-ish seconds) as the timer turns from the last increment of both the wash or rinse agitation period to the drain increment.

2) Drain (neutral mode, no spin or agitate) for two minutes.  If there was the motor pause as the timer turns but spin-drain occurs (either immediately or it engages before another motor pause occurs), then the problem is the transmission not the timer.

3) Another brief motor pause as the timer turns from drain to spin (which allows the neutral drain components in the transmission to release into spin mode).

Check that the proper motor pause sequences occur on both the Ultra Clean/regular cycle and on the Permanent Press cycle.

The motor/transmission runs in one direction for agitation mode, the reverse direction for spin mode (and neutral drain).  Agitation resets the transmission into neutral drain mode.  The next time it runs in the reverse, the set neutral drain parts hold the transmission from spin mode.  Pause the motor, neutral drain releases, start it again in the same reverse direction and spin occurs.  From this point spin will continue to occur immediately every time the motor/transmission runs in the same reverse direction ... unless some agitation happens first (the motor/transmission runs in the other direction, 10+ seconds should be enough).

 

[blockeight88]

^ Well according to that, it would appear to the be transmission. But the guy said the bad timers can cause the transmission to slip and do a spin drain. Mine also has no issues whatsoever doing a neutral drain on Heavy Duty and regular. It's just that damn delicate setting.

 

[DADoES]

 
The timer controls when the motor runs and whether it runs clockwise or counterclockwise.  The timer has no electrical connection into the transmission.  Nothing is electrically connected to the transmission, it's a purely mechanical device that is run by a physical linkage to the motor.

 

[ozzie908]

DADoES

Would you explain in terms I will understand how the neutral drain works please is it by weight ie when its drained enough water out it will spin or is timed for so long ? I really do not comprehend how it knows when to spin. As you know most FL over here work via a pressure switch and I do recall a Hotpoint top loader we had would not spin until a solenoid was activated so it had a electric link.

Thank you so much Austin

 

[DADoES]

 
Neutral drain is completely a mechanical function inside the transmission.

The spin gear is not driven in agitate direction.  There are weighted and spring cams and levers in the transmission that set during agitation and function to lock the spin gear from turning when the motor first changes to the reverse direction after an agitation period ... when neutral drain begins.

The cams and levers release when the motor stops after drain.  The spin gear then is driven when the motor restarts in the same direction (reversed from agitation) for spin, and the spin gear is driven.

A cam and gear on the agitate shaft also shift one way or the other to engage or disengage agitation, depending on which direction the motor & transmission are running.

 

[brisnat81]

Hey Austin,

There is nothing intelligent about it. The Drain period is a timer increment after the first pause and before the second.

After the second pause, the machine will spin, regardless of whether there is water in there or not.

Cheers

Nathan

 

[blockeight88]

Got more info:

The tech is saying timer intermittently does not pause between rinse and spin causing basket to spin before it drains.

 

[DADoES]

 
Have you observed that to be the case?

 

[blockeight88]

I haven't paid attention to the timer. I mean it completes the cycle on it's own. I don't have to intervene. Then again, I'm not a technician who specializes in these. Up until a month ago, I had no idea what was normal and what was not for these machines.

 

[combo52]

It Is Impossible For A Bad Timer To Cause Your Washer

Skip The Neutral Drain !!!!

 

If the timer skips the brief stop then the machine would NEVER spin you would be left with sopping wet clothes sitting in the bottom of the basket.

 

Your repair Tech is not very smart to put it nicely.

 

John L.

 

[blockeight88]

I have no clue on how smart he is lol. All I know is the place that does the repairs is very reputable in my area and he got excellent reviews. I know that does not indicate his skill level. He did say if the timer does not fix the issue, the oil in the transmission could be thick.

 

[DADoES]

 
This 5.5 hrs video is seven full cycles of an appliance dealer playing with a 1999 Kenmore 80 haulaway.  It has both bad neutral drain and a bad timer.  The timer doesn't run the motor during the drain increment on the Ultra Clean / Regular cycle for both wash and rinse, and (usually) not on the rinse drain on Perm Press.

Neutral drain fails majority of the time so it does a spin-drain at the spin increment.  Sometimes it runs neutral drain briefly then slips into spin.

Neutral drain starts working on two later cycles (4+ hrs period) which results in 1) neutral drain at the spin increment and no spin since there isn't a 2nd pause, and 2) neutral drain and spin both function properly.

Drain/spin periods on the seven cycles:
23:55
35:55

58:25
1:11:35

1:37:45
1:49:10

2:16:10
2:27:00

3:21:40
3:32:30

4:01:30 (spin fail)
4:12:55 (spin fail)

4:38:35 (neutral drain & spin both work)
4:52:25 (neutral drain & spin both work for PP rinse drain)

 

[blockeight88]

Well according to that video, it would appear my timer is fine. So in theory, once it's replaced with a "new timer" it should still fail to neutral drain when on extra slow, slow, or sometimes regular, correct?

 

[combo52]

Failure To To A Neutral Drain

Hi Matt, the problem your washer is having is a very common problem, it has been seen thousands of times, it is a transmission problem, It can NOT be caused by the timer.

 

As I stated in a post above a timer that fails to pause will only result in a load not being spun at all if the transmission was not faulty.

 

John L.

 

[blockeight88]

@ Combo52,

I know. The video posted above convinced me. I'm going to let the guy install the new timer and see for himself that won't fix it.

 

[stan]

Hi Matt

Keep us posted as to how this turns out after repairmen visits !

 

[ozzie908]

Thank you

To those who explained in terms I understood how the neutral drain works...

Makes perfect sense now !

Austin

 

[catlady4ever]

Blockeight88, thanks so much for posting this thread. It has turned out to be a wealth of excellent information. I have one of these Kenmore washers myself. Whole reason for buying it specifically was the extra slow speed for gentle washing of my bras. Long gone are my days of hand washing them in the sink. Arthritis made sure of that. This is such a wonderful site with people graciously sharing their knowledge and experience. Because of this particular thread, I now know what part(s) to buy as a backup as Whirlpool is no longer making them. My goal is to buy one more same make and model to the Kenmore 3 speed I have now while there are still some available but getting harder to find. They get sold by the time I call or text about them.

Speaking of "refurbished"... Holy cow, that is a wide open term depending on the integrity of the seller of the "refurbished" machine. I asked what specifically seller replaced or repaired and if he ran test loads in different settings to make sure the 3 speeds actually worked, or was it just cleaned (aka just flipped). One guy told me to go to Home Depot. Others just never responded. I have also just run into the flipper who offers a 30 day warranty but can supply nothing in writing regarding what that warranty offers. So it is really important to not be swayed by the term "refurbished."

 

[blockeight88]

I believe the neutral drain kit is back in stock.

https://www.searspartsdirect.com/product/yrp3ej684d-0026-110/id-388253a

UPDATE: Turns out, the timer was not the problem. I have ordered the rebuilt transmission by Corecentric Solutions and a new motor coupling for my machine.

Hopefully that will fix it.

Thanks to everyone for the input. I'll report back once the new transmission is installed.

 

[stan]

Hi Matt

So the technician tried a new timer, then decided that it needed a new transmission instead?
Is the same technician installing new transmission when it comes in?

 

[DADoES]

 
Back in stock ... so neutral-drain panic averted, at least for a while. 

But I wouldn't any longer buy parts from Sears.

 

[whitewhiskers]

re: I wouldn't any longer buy parts from Sears

DoAndroidsDreamOfElectricSheep, what's wrong with ordering parts from Sears? Does a candle that burns twice as bright burn half as long?

 

[blockeight88]

UPDATE: My transmission has been replaced with the one from Corecentric. It was a success. The machine now neutral drains on delicate without any issue. I notice it's actually much more quit than before. Thanks to everyone for helping me resolve this issue.

 

[stan]

Happy ending !

Hope u hung on to the old timer..repayment timers can expensive parts to get hold of.
IIRC they ain't making new Mechanical timers.

 

[blockeight88]

The timer wasn't replaced. The transmission was. The timer is original and works fine.