I'm having to move and will only be able to take one set of laundry appliances with me. currently I have a 72 lady k washer that I've had to patch the tub and will no longer stay balanced but the mechanics are fine, and a 66 lady k set that everything is perfect except for the transmission is dead in the washer. My question is what all am i going to have to go through to change the transmission? I've looked for a write up but haven't found one yet. Also even though everything electrical was fine when i last used the 66 now a year later when I turn it on it'll fill and all but when the motor is supposed to start it just hums and all the speed indicator lights turn on.
kenmore bd trans swap questions
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1966_mustang
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Hey Man your LOCAL!!! WOW... I have done this transmision swap on a 1966 WP. It is not terribly tough...
Need to take the Inner tub and Agitator out first...
Then you will need a nice sturdy low table to turn the machine up on its front so you can get to its under neath....
Are you good at working on cars??
I could come over one weekend to help..
Need to take the Inner tub and Agitator out first...
Then you will need a nice sturdy low table to turn the machine up on its front so you can get to its under neath....
Are you good at working on cars??
I could come over one weekend to help..
Transmission "transplants" are certainly possible. I have been witness to one and heard stories of quite a few others. It is fussy, exacting work to say the least. The first part that can be difficult is getting the old transmission out. On one hand, I pulled the transmission out of a 1965 700 a while back and only needed wrenches and a rubber mallet. Earlier this summer I watched someone try to remove a transmission and that involved a torch, hack saw, a lot of swearing and liquor!
And then you never know what you're going to find once you start pulling things apart. Hopefully one of the baseplates is in overall good condition. Then there's the spin tube and the two center post bearings...Also the 1972 Lady K is going to have the Quiet Pak belt, pulleys and motor mount. I honestly can't say if you can transplant a BD transmission with the "Quiet Pak" into a machine designed for a standar transmission. John, Gordon or someone who has experience much of this than I have can certainly weigh in here and correct anything that is suspect in my thoughts.
And then you never know what you're going to find once you start pulling things apart. Hopefully one of the baseplates is in overall good condition. Then there's the spin tube and the two center post bearings...Also the 1972 Lady K is going to have the Quiet Pak belt, pulleys and motor mount. I honestly can't say if you can transplant a BD transmission with the "Quiet Pak" into a machine designed for a standar transmission. John, Gordon or someone who has experience much of this than I have can certainly weigh in here and correct anything that is suspect in my thoughts.
redcarpetdrew
Well-known member
I don't mean to ask a silly question, but...
How do you know it's the transmission and not something possibly less hectic?
RCD
How do you know it's the transmission and not something possibly less hectic?
RCD
Transmission compatibility
Duke -
The transmissions are definitely compatible between the two Lady Ks, however if this were my job to do I would be aware that the transmission in the '72 may not be in complete re-usable shape, AND as stated by others above, is not an entirely simple procedure for a novice.
My first recommendation is to get a Kenmore or Whirlpool produced repair manual, which will outline the removal and re-installation procedure. You should have one of those anyway if you're going to rely on a belt-drive washer. Then, remove the agitator in the '72, or at least try. Do the same, or at least try, in the '66 as well.
Both the '72 and the '66 are, at least in well used machines, prone to having rusted-on agitators, which will be very difficult to remove. The 72's can be taken out with the aid of an Agitamer, however if stuck, this will often reveal very rusted agitator splines, meaning the shaft cannot be re-used, and thus rendering the transmission useless unless you have a new agitator shaft. The '66's agitator cannot be removed with an agitamer, not in my view anyway, and if REALLY stuck, can only be removed by breaking it out with a large screw driver or similar. You'd have to use another agitator other than a Roto-Flex at that point unless you have access to a spare.
If you're lucky enough to have one or two agitators that will come off their splines by pulling, you're doing well. The swap job after that isn't that bad, however as Mark was eluding to, transmissions that have worn themselves into place need considerable coaxing to get out, as spin tubes can wear grooves onto the agitator shaft, and the centerpost can wear grooves into the spin tube, thereby clamping everything together in ways they weren't when assembled at the factory.
If you get to the point that the '72's transmission is going to go into the '66, also as mentioned above, the quiet-pak drive pulley on that transmission must be removed in favor of the '66's or similar pulley. All four pulleys (Motor, pump, basket drive, and transmission) must all be for the same belt, either way.
Start with trying to get out the agitators and see what you have at that point, then we can re-group.
Gordon
Duke -
The transmissions are definitely compatible between the two Lady Ks, however if this were my job to do I would be aware that the transmission in the '72 may not be in complete re-usable shape, AND as stated by others above, is not an entirely simple procedure for a novice.
My first recommendation is to get a Kenmore or Whirlpool produced repair manual, which will outline the removal and re-installation procedure. You should have one of those anyway if you're going to rely on a belt-drive washer. Then, remove the agitator in the '72, or at least try. Do the same, or at least try, in the '66 as well.
Both the '72 and the '66 are, at least in well used machines, prone to having rusted-on agitators, which will be very difficult to remove. The 72's can be taken out with the aid of an Agitamer, however if stuck, this will often reveal very rusted agitator splines, meaning the shaft cannot be re-used, and thus rendering the transmission useless unless you have a new agitator shaft. The '66's agitator cannot be removed with an agitamer, not in my view anyway, and if REALLY stuck, can only be removed by breaking it out with a large screw driver or similar. You'd have to use another agitator other than a Roto-Flex at that point unless you have access to a spare.
If you're lucky enough to have one or two agitators that will come off their splines by pulling, you're doing well. The swap job after that isn't that bad, however as Mark was eluding to, transmissions that have worn themselves into place need considerable coaxing to get out, as spin tubes can wear grooves onto the agitator shaft, and the centerpost can wear grooves into the spin tube, thereby clamping everything together in ways they weren't when assembled at the factory.
If you get to the point that the '72's transmission is going to go into the '66, also as mentioned above, the quiet-pak drive pulley on that transmission must be removed in favor of the '66's or similar pulley. All four pulleys (Motor, pump, basket drive, and transmission) must all be for the same belt, either way.
Start with trying to get out the agitators and see what you have at that point, then we can re-group.
Gordon
i have had the agitator and inner drum out of the 72 already everything was pretty clean on that machine it had just been stored with water in the tub and outter tub rusted away. i corrently have the agitator off the 66 but havent tried to get the inner tub out shouldnt be too hard just have to get the inner tub to stop spinning.
1966_mustang: yeah I am very good with cars. and any help would be great
redcarpetdrew: I had a thread on here earlier and the general concensus was it was screwed it never fully engages agitate itll sometimes work if it sits for like 20 minutes or if you yank on the agitator at just the right time.it also never locks the agitator either so it liked to try to agitate during the spin
kenmoreguy64: I already have both agitators out. I was lucky both just popped off.
1966_mustang: yeah I am very good with cars. and any help would be great
redcarpetdrew: I had a thread on here earlier and the general concensus was it was screwed it never fully engages agitate itll sometimes work if it sits for like 20 minutes or if you yank on the agitator at just the right time.it also never locks the agitator either so it liked to try to agitate during the spin
kenmoreguy64: I already have both agitators out. I was lucky both just popped off.
1966_mustang
Well-known member
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ruked,
If your good with cars then replaceing that transmission will not be that tough. The key is bening able to have the Wash sit on a table on its front where you can get to the underneath really good....
There are plenty of NEW rebuilt transmissions out there from what I can tell... about 150 bucks..
If your good with cars then replaceing that transmission will not be that tough. The key is bening able to have the Wash sit on a table on its front where you can get to the underneath really good....
There are plenty of NEW rebuilt transmissions out there from what I can tell... about 150 bucks..
currently I need to save as much money as I can, also I dont really want to trash the 72 since it works but i wouldnt feel right selling it cause of how jurry rigged it is. so im justifying parting it out as a reason to junk it especially since everything on it mechanically seems like new.
I'm gonna try in a couple of hours to get them up on a tableand start cleaning and looking at all thats involved.
I'm gonna try in a couple of hours to get them up on a tableand start cleaning and looking at all thats involved.
Duke -
There is no need to put the machines on a table. I have done every bit of work like this with the machine laying on the floor, usually on its front. Always put a pad (I use old bathroom rugs) under the machine. This is the vantage point that WP and Sears service manuals are written from, however if you can get a machine elevated on a table, it might be easier on your back doing the work standing up vs. sitting.
What color is your '72? I might be interested in some parts from it if you go that route.
Gordon
There is no need to put the machines on a table. I have done every bit of work like this with the machine laying on the floor, usually on its front. Always put a pad (I use old bathroom rugs) under the machine. This is the vantage point that WP and Sears service manuals are written from, however if you can get a machine elevated on a table, it might be easier on your back doing the work standing up vs. sitting.
What color is your '72? I might be interested in some parts from it if you go that route.
Gordon
Changing a WP BD Washers transmission
You DON'T need a table to do this just lay an old blanket on the floor and lay the washer on it. You also do NOT need to remove the washers basket to change the transmission, the transmission pulls out independently from the basket drive assembly and unless you are doing a complete mechanical restoration the less stuff you disturb the better.
You DON'T need a table to do this just lay an old blanket on the floor and lay the washer on it. You also do NOT need to remove the washers basket to change the transmission, the transmission pulls out independently from the basket drive assembly and unless you are doing a complete mechanical restoration the less stuff you disturb the better.
well.....that was easy got the trans out of the 66. took me all of 15 minutes. has a very easy to understand way of mounting which i wished car manufactures could understand. poor thing smells aweful and is coated in oil and dirt. least when it came out there were no signs of leaks or of anything such as that. so we should be good to go once im able to flip the 72 over.
heres the old transmission in all its faded glory. now just need to figure out what to do with it. noticed when taking this picture that the agitaton cam arm is in agitate but the plunger isnt down. gently* tried to persuede it to engage but it wont move least i now can be certain its definetly the trans.
* with a hammer
* with a hammer
well, got the other transmission out. took no time at all as nothing was in tight im pretty sure its had its transmission either out or replaced. only thing keeping me from throwing it together now is the t bearings on the machines are way different the older one has a collar and a bronze bearing and the new one just has a plastic bearing. I understand there should be a retainer ball on the plastic one but its long gone. would i be better off using the original collar and bearing off the 66 or should i try to find the bits to use the plastic one.
Tee bearing
Use the older one, it is completely interchangeable.
Use the older one, it is completely interchangeable.
i did use the old one. new transmission is in, working great. only issues now are I dont have the spring on the spin clutch pivot all the way (the little one with the spring clip retainer, big hands just couldnt do it) and I think cause of that spins a little weak. I had done what I had read on one site and loosened the mounting bolts, then put it in spin ,and tightened back. that helped but still just seems sluggish.
Duke -
You say you used the old bronze T-bearing? If so, what did you support it with on the new shaft? Did you take the support collar off the old agi shaft? The tee-bearing cannot rest directly on the gearcase cover and work properly. It would need the collar from the old shaft to hold it up. Some newer transmissions don't have both a groove for the collar and the hole for the support ball. Thus, if there is no support for the tee-bearing, you will have a sluggish or non-spin condition as you describe.
Look in the crevaces of both washer cabinets, and in the oily areas of the newer gearcase cover, especially in the far corner where the spin cam rides - they sometimes conceal the new T-bearing ball very well. If the '72 was spinning properly before, the support ball should be around somewhere. You can assure that the t-bearing ball is held in place in the agitator shaft with a little dab of grease if you can find it - that way it won't fall out again. If you got the tee-bearing on correctly, this is a mute point and you can ignore these two paragraphs...
As to the spring, I am not sure which one you're talking about - the two-inch or so long spring that runs between the clutch plate and the edge of the gearcase is essential. Needle-nose pliers are the best way to go in installing this. Sounds more like you're referring to the white plastic retainer clip that holds the other side of the clutch plate to the post on the gearcase -- this is also essential. If the original '66 basket drive had a spring and cotter pin to hold these in place on the support post, and the '72's had a white plastic clip, that clip should be able to be transplanted onto the old clutch plate. If this clip cracks or breaks, which they do sometimes in handling, you'll need to replace it. This will also cause a poor spin condition.
If memory serves, some factory replacement trasmissions have accomodations for both types of tee-bearing support and can work with both types of clutch plate clips? I am not 100% sure about the clips. The white plastic snap clip is easier to work with than the old spring and pin, but either way, these must be engaged securely for the machine to spin properly.
Good luck!
Gordon
[this post was last edited: 9/11/2012-05:25]
You say you used the old bronze T-bearing? If so, what did you support it with on the new shaft? Did you take the support collar off the old agi shaft? The tee-bearing cannot rest directly on the gearcase cover and work properly. It would need the collar from the old shaft to hold it up. Some newer transmissions don't have both a groove for the collar and the hole for the support ball. Thus, if there is no support for the tee-bearing, you will have a sluggish or non-spin condition as you describe.
Look in the crevaces of both washer cabinets, and in the oily areas of the newer gearcase cover, especially in the far corner where the spin cam rides - they sometimes conceal the new T-bearing ball very well. If the '72 was spinning properly before, the support ball should be around somewhere. You can assure that the t-bearing ball is held in place in the agitator shaft with a little dab of grease if you can find it - that way it won't fall out again. If you got the tee-bearing on correctly, this is a mute point and you can ignore these two paragraphs...
As to the spring, I am not sure which one you're talking about - the two-inch or so long spring that runs between the clutch plate and the edge of the gearcase is essential. Needle-nose pliers are the best way to go in installing this. Sounds more like you're referring to the white plastic retainer clip that holds the other side of the clutch plate to the post on the gearcase -- this is also essential. If the original '66 basket drive had a spring and cotter pin to hold these in place on the support post, and the '72's had a white plastic clip, that clip should be able to be transplanted onto the old clutch plate. If this clip cracks or breaks, which they do sometimes in handling, you'll need to replace it. This will also cause a poor spin condition.
If memory serves, some factory replacement trasmissions have accomodations for both types of tee-bearing support and can work with both types of clutch plate clips? I am not 100% sure about the clips. The white plastic snap clip is easier to work with than the old spring and pin, but either way, these must be engaged securely for the machine to spin properly.
Good luck!
Gordon
[this post was last edited: 9/11/2012-05:25]
Tee bearings
Hi Gordon, what years did WP use which Tee Bearings ? I am familiar with all the different types of coerce but don't remember the exact year they used which. I do think that all agitator shafts had a hole drilled to accommodate either the original style with a set screw or the last style with the steel ball and white plastic bearing. I would have thought that they were not using the ball style in 1972 yet, but instead the black plastic bearing with the clips below. John
Hi Gordon, what years did WP use which Tee Bearings ? I am familiar with all the different types of coerce but don't remember the exact year they used which. I do think that all agitator shafts had a hole drilled to accommodate either the original style with a set screw or the last style with the steel ball and white plastic bearing. I would have thought that they were not using the ball style in 1972 yet, but instead the black plastic bearing with the clips below. John
