kenmore bd trans swap questions

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John,

Intersting question! You have worked on a lot of older machines than I have, and and thus you may be aware of more Tee bearing designs than I am (for example, the one you mentioned with a set screw - I've never seen one of those). That said, here's what I can tell you:

The oldest machine I've worked on in great detail is a 1960/1961. It had the non-set-screw bronze bearing with the retainer ring/C-clip underneath it. That machine showed signs of work, so the gearcase may not have been original. It did have a keyway on the agitator shaft for the drive block vs. splines. The newest machine that I recall in detail having the bronze bearing was a 1967 Kenmore 70, which I rebuilt including bearings in 1991. I remember that one well because I had only seen plastic tee-bearings prior to that one and remarked about it.

Most of the machines I worked on in the early 90s had the black plastic tee bearing which fits on the same C-clip as the previous bronze. These would all have been 1970s models. I remember one in particular very well as I installed the black bearing upside down, which looking back was funny...but not so much at the time. I suspect that these came about with the fast brake design in 1971, however I am not certain. Everything I saw from then until the second half of the 70s had the black bearing.

It wasn't until a 1978 model, or so, when I discovered the beige/ivory colored plastic tee bearing with the retainer ball. If that is right, that would coincide with the evolution of the short centerpost. I don't know if the two are connected, but until I got used to securing those retainer balls in place with a dob of grease, I was forever cursing them because they fall out, sometimes at the most inopportune times...they work great though when you know how to use them properly.

So, I'd say bronze until the late 60s or so, black plastic until late 70s, and the light plastic thereafter.

As to the shaft configurations, I do know that some of the mid 70s machines only accomodated the C-clip and had no holes for a set-screw or ball. Learned that one the hard way too because I went to do a gearcase swap and didn't have all the right parts one time. That flippin' clip/retainer ring was a pain trying to marry onto the agitator shaft until I learned how to do it. If memory serves this was a standard capacity 1976 built Kenmore. I don't think machines were made very long this way however (with just the clip only). I have a carbon copy of that machine again now - it might be an interesting thing to check sometime.

You brought up an interesting thought though with this, as it relates to Duke's machines. Duke...if your tee-bearing on the 1972's transmission is black plastic, you won't need the retaining ball and your machine never had one originally. When you said something about the missing ball, and it being a possible replacement transmission, I just assumed you had a newer gearcase with the light colored bearing and never considered that the '72's original gearcase would have the black plastic one. If it does, then both transmissions should have the same retainer clip and you'd be golden to use either tee bearing in either machine. ALSO, if that is an original '72 gearcase, then you may have had the same spring and clip on both machines to secure the rear-facing side of the basket drive yoke/plate. Big hands don't fit in there well, I know, but to get the right spin, you must re-secure that pin in the groove on the support shaft. The belt gets in the way...

I was complaining to Andy in April at Kevin's wash-in, while working on his 1966 Lady K, that these springs were a pain, and his installed properly, the first time, lol. I've sent those springs flying across my garage in trying to fenagle with them, so be mindful of that. I usually use a flat bladed screw driver to compress the spring a little, and needle nose pliers to insert the cotter pin.

Gordon
 
Tee bearings

Thanks for all the input Gordon, I do know that the black plastic Tee Bearing did not appear until around 1970 and before that ALL WPs had the steel collar with the set screw and a bronze bearing sitting on top, there were no [awful] retaining clips before the black plastic tee bearings.
 
I used the set screw retainer collar and the bronze bearing. The tee bearing on the 72 was black but there was no clips I assumed there was a ball cause there was a place i thought was for it, but soon realized it was just where the set screw for the collar goes. As for the spring I mean the little bastard with the cotter clip. both transmissions had the same hook up for that I just couldn't get it on. It's on there but not very well. Gonna try and get a friend of mine with tiny hands to help me.

I'm pretty sure that the transmssion from the 72 was a replacement nothing was held together very tight, braces were missing, clips that should be there wern't, and you could tell someone before had gone to great lengths to remove the pulley from something, but since it slid right off when i did it i doubt it was that transmission.
 
John,

I'll defer that to you about the original bronze bearing, even without Duke describing something similar. I sure don't remember a set screw, but it sounds like they were there on those I worked on. I'll pay more attention to the next one! You've worked on too many more of the older ones than I have.

I am betting that few liked the retainer clips with the black plastic bearings? I was always surpised that the clips stayed engaged in the groove with all the weight and forces on them -- such a thin piece of steel for the work it was doing.

Gordon
 
Funny story about the basket drive retainer clips we discuss

One of the machines in my current collection is a 1986 Kenmore 70. It is not a machine of notoriety, but I've rescued this same machine from scrap twice, once in 1993 and again in 2003. That secured it a place with me...

The machine was only 7.5 years old when I got it in 1993, in very nice shape, and it would have gone within a day to the scrap yard had I not grabbed it and five others. I was surprised at the time that a used appliance store let a seven year old belt-drive out of their clutches, as these were instant sellers on the floor as long as they were in nice physical shape and not avocado, etc.

I got it home, then I knew why they didn't want it. Outside of a tub leak, the later designed yoke retainer clip, which replaced the spring and cotter pin as discussed above, had cracked and come out of its snapped position on the support post. This allowed the rear side of the basket drive yoke to flop around. It eventually came completely off the support post, and was riding pivoted, above it, side to side as much as the limited play would allow. Other than a sluggish spin like Duke described, the moving parts of the clutch plate and brake drum etc. would rub on this yoke, thrashing it around, etc. That yoke is not meant to move around, that's for sure.

Doesn't sound so remarkable, but the machine made sounds I had never heard before, and have not since. Since the yoke is under some pressure, especially during operation, and is heavy gauge steel, it was making some incredible racket which reminded me of a muffled gun shot or the sound of a shoed horse trotting on a cement paved street.

This is one of those repairs that is really satisfying, because you get instant gratification as the problem thus forth was fixed with no funky sounds.

I sold the machine soon after and it did laundry for 9 or 10 years for a newlywed couple who went on to have two babies before the machine developed centerpost seal failure. I'd have liked it to serve longer, but it made it longer than its original term by 25%. The buyers called me and asked if I wanted it back.

In 2009 I re-sealed it and refreshed a thoroughly nasty spoiled transmission which had been full of water, among other work. The water in the gearcase evaporated in the six years previous, but left this unholy black molasses like goo in the gearcase. I use it now fairly regularly. My best memory of this washer though is that broken tiny plastic clip which rendered the whole machine useless....

Gordon
 
finally got it. used a screw driver to open the top of the spring a little, put the spring clip on in the middle and wound the sprng on. also found that slow spin was probably actually because I didnt tighten the motor all the way back down after tensioning the belt.
 

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