KitchenAid KDTE554CSS: Dishwasher With A Suds-Saver

[frigilux]

Or more accurately, a rinse water-saver.  The new model ($1700) saves the final rinse water in a slim tank attached to the side of the dishwasher for use in the pre-wash of the next cycle.  KA claims residual detergent in the final rinse water will discourage mold/bacteria growth.  However, if another cycle isn't run within 72 hours, the tank is automatically drained.  The system cleans itself once every 30 washes by automatically adding 30 minutes to a cycle to flush the tank and lines.

 

The new machine is receiving a limited roll-out and is not yet featured at their website, but KA is expected to add the AquaSense Recycling system to more models this spring. It first debuted in Europe a couple of years ago.  So far the biggest problem has been customers believing something is wrong with their machine since they don't hear the initial fill.

 

 

[this post was last edited: 10/18/2013-23:26]

 

[logixx]

It's Whirlpool's take the Water Management Bosch introduced five or more years ago. Miele holds patents on a very similar system. Makes me wonder why Bosch didn't have the tank patented in the first place - I mean, no one could have cutlery drawers until Miele's patent expired, but these storage tanks are already catching on. Maybe some other company had it before?

I wonder how much these KitchenAids use? Bosch and Bauknecht both state 6 liters for two washes ans two rinses.

 

[whirlcool]

Is there an option not to use this feature on these machines? I think you would be prerinsing with cold water.

 

[foraloysius]

Most European dishwashers have a cold water connection. No problem with prerinsing what so ever. As a matter of fact I would prefer it that way. Cold water is better for protein, nothing gets burned on.

 

[washer111]

Cold Water Pre-Rinse/Wash

I don't think it really hurts. Even if you have an incoming temperature of 120ºF (48ºC), with the low water usage of these machines, it is unlikely you will get more than around 10ºC on top of your room temperature. 

For example, if I set the DishDrawer to display the reading from the temperature sensor and start the machine, the machines starts at around 24ºC (75ºF). With 120º water on tap, the machine only about a 10º "raise" to around 34ºC (93ºF). I don't think that will bake on Proteins, and is a great place to start with enzyme detergents. 

 

But I think "Suds-Saving" is a good idea. Lets the machine completely rinse the dishes after washing. Only trouble is the energy standards test won't take advantage of this feature if they take the machine out of its box, set it up for a test and run it. It will only work for subsequent washes - so perhaps the machine will come with a "Your mileage may vary" sticker!

 

[frigilux]

I was startled to discover most dishwashers made after 2011 had a main wash temp of only 100-110 degrees.  We are used to 120-140 degrees fahrenheit in the main wash.  Now, it's the final rinse water that is heated to 140-150 degrees on most machines.  A sanitize option often heats the rinse water beyond that--155-160 degrees.

 

It still strikes me as counterintuitive to allow such a cool main wash, but am frequently reminded that new enzyme-laden dishwasher detergents actually work better at 100-120 degrees since the enzymes are deactivated at temps above 120.

 

I just have to accept that lukewarm is the new hot in both washing machines and dishwashers.  I cling to the hope that Steam, Allergy, and Sanitize options will survive in front-loaders.  That way I'm guaranteed an internal heater for those loads in which nothing but hot water will do.

 

I have no problem with the idea of recycling water to pre-rinse dishes.  It will be interesting to see how the machine fares in Consumer Reports' tests. The dishwasher in my house runs at least once a day, so AquaSense Recycling would be put to good use.

 

I'm putting money aside for a new dishwasher sometime in the next year to year-and-a-half.  Have had my sights set on a Bosch, but if this KitchenAid gets the nod from CR, I may have to reconsider.

 

[mrb627]

Well, I think...

We are witnessing an idea whose time has come. I would be very surprised if this didn't start popping up in front loaders too.

Malcolm

 

[logixx]

Fagor has such a washing machine. Its tank holds 8 liters of rinse water. Fagor also has dishwashers with that technology - seems more common than I thought. Whirlpool's Green Kitchen concept imagines a dishwasher with such a tank that is preheated by the heat given off by the fridge/freezer.

 

[logixx]

 

[retropia]

I wonder if the tank on the side reduces interior capacity, and if so, by how much?

They claim that the presence of some remaining detergent in the rinse water will help to prevent mold growth in the tank. However, that implies there might be some leftover detergent on the dishes, also, and I'd prefer to not have any leftover detergent on my dishes.

Make mine a double-rinse model, please....

 

[launderess]

Commercial Dishwashers Have Been Saving The Final Rinse

Water for years. Some have tanks IIRC, but most simply do not drain that water. Why do domestic DW units have to reinvent the wheel?

 

[Ultramatic]

 

 

<span style="font-size: medium;">Fagor has just declared bankruptcy. </span>

http://www.euronews.com/2013/10/17/spanish-consumer-appliance-giant-fagor-files-for-protection/

 

[frigilux]

Launderess-- I think the water must be drained away in order for the dishes to dry. Those big commercial Hobart units rinse at very high temps; then the doors are lifted, the rack is pulled out, and the dishes flash dry. I once worked at a local church kitchen with an under-counter commercial Hobart, but I don't recall whether or not it drained the rinse water.

 

[washer111]

Enzyme Effectiveness:

I think the ones used in dishwashing work quite acceptably through the 122º up to around 140º range. Of course, they may be more effective at the lower temperatures, but for some, cycles using those temperatures are for economy purposes and may not take as long. 

You'll find that enzymes are killed off by Chlorine in the wash water, as well as at "Sanitary" temperatures - although even on the hottest cycle I've got on my machine (158º Main-Wash, 150º Final Rinse), I still get detergent foam and I still get clean dishes. Its just certain other parts of the detergent will work better at these sorts of temperatures (Mainly oxygen bleaching agents).

 

I've noticed that when the European members here discuss their dishwashers, those machines are still intaking cold water and using a fairly powerful heater (around 1400w or so) to heat the water to 130º, 140º or 150º, like they have been for years. There is (of course) some variance in this depending on the cycle and machine. 

 

What I think the "issue" in the U.S. is would be the ever tightening restrictions on energy consumption. Even if you have the hot water connection, hot water "right there" for the dishwasher when it starts, you still have to heat it some after your initial "raise" I discussed before. The cooler you wash, the less you have to heat after this (especially true in U.S. machines where you are limited in heater wattage) - therefore you get lower energy consumption and "better" energy ratings from EnergyGuide. Plus, consumer and business get their tax rebate for building "better" machines (Even though those tax breaks must cost the US a fortune). 

 

[henene4]

Well, EU dishwashers have at least 1800W heater on all standard height modells. But as on washers, the trend is towards smaller heaters. Most Whirlpool washers with the smaller tubs and the dial on the right use 1.85kW in total, so about 1500-1600 for heating.

 

[jerrod6]

Residual detergent in the final rinse water? No thanks sounds like the thing isn't rinsing all that well.