Launderess versus Miele W1070 The Continuing Saga

[launderess]

Funny innit?

Supposedly Miele ended production of W770, W1065, W1070, and similar model series by 1989. But both Crouzet programmer/timer one has are marked " 07 AVR "1992" Unless one's French is mistaken that is 7th of April 1992.

Can understand why Miele would continue to lay in supply of parts after production ended. But these timers are all original to washers, not replacements far as one can tell.

Here's another thing...

Miele service has purchase date of washer in their system as 1/1/1989. That's New Years Day, and nothing would be open even back in 1989 to purchase an appliance. We received unit second hand late 1990's or early 2000's, cannot recall.

MieleUSA did tell us some time ago sales of W1070 and W1065 along with matching dryers didn't end until 1994. Indeed one could find sales adverts from 1991 for machines in question. https://books.google.com/books?id=c...YSF0QHf8IH4AQ#v=onepage&q=Miele W 1070&f=true

Am thinking because W1070 and W1065 were special models adapted for sale in North America, production ran longer than in Europe. There obviously were newer models for Germany and other European markets.

In 1995 Miele sought a waiver from DOE for their W1918, W1903 and W1030 washers.

https://www.google.com/books/editio...dq=Miele+W1918&pg=PA42555&printsec=frontcover

Without said waiver Miele couldn't sell those washing machines in USA I believe. Without anything new to replace W1070 and W1065 those washer may have remained in production and thus for sale in USA longer than their European cousins.

German spares website list end production date for W1070 and W1065 as 1994.[this post was last edited: 9/26/2021-04:44]

 

[launderess]

Don't have way to upload videos.

But here is W770 going though its paces. Gives you an idea of how timers on these washer go.

 

[foraloysius]

According to the text under the video, the washer in that video is from 1983.

One can only speculate why they were so much longer made for the American market than for the European market. Or is the end of production date a theoretical one as a date to start counting for the end of production for parts availability?

Fact is that the successory line to the W765 etc. (as those models were named in Europe) appeared on the market in 1989. Because I hoarded Miele brochures from that time, I have binders full of Miele brochures with that new line of washers and dryers. lol

My Miele W715 (see my photo album) was from 1991. It was a machine not only with Hydromatic, but also with Novotronic. Novotronic was something new on that series.

Perhaps Miele opened a new production line for the new series so it was possible to manufacture the old series longer? Did they do that because they wanted to introduce the new series step by step? We can only guess.

 

[launderess]

Having to petition federal government for a waiver, and then wait for a response meant Miele wouldn't have a washing machine in USA market in 1995 besides W1070 and W1065. How deep a supply Miele USA had of those washers at end of 1994 or in 1995 one does not know. There may have been machines sitting in Germany that could have been warehoused awaiting shipment as well.

Miele was granted an interim waiver from DOE later in 1995, which was made final in 1996.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-1996-03-19/html/96-6569.htm

Virtually all German spare sites one has trawled for parts to fit W1070/W1065 say production ended in 1994. This while their various cousins ended in 1989 or so.

 

[foraloysius]

Thank you, interesting reading material! It looks like Whirlpool didn't like the Miele competition.

I guess Miele wasn't in a hurry to introduce these new models. So, can I assume that Miele didn't sell washers on the North American market for a few years?

 

[gizmo]

Cream sherry?
I would have thought an occasion such as this would have required celebrating with the dowager Lady Ursula's gooseberry wine.

 

[launderess]

"It looks like Whirlpool didn't like the Miele competition."

Probably not, but cannot see why Whirlpool would be so upset. Miele then, before and still now is really a niche part of laundry and other appliances market here in USA.

I mean it isn't as if Whirlpool doesn't or didn't then build front loading washing machines in Europe. Whirlpool owns Hotpoint, Bauknecht, and Indesit, all European brands.

Cannot tell from research so far when Miele started sales of W19XX models and matching dryers in USA exactly. Know they were on sale by 1996, but cannot pin down when they arrived.

Just because Miele stopped producing W1070 and W1065 in 1994, doesn't mean stocks vanished overnight. Years after W1918 W1903 and other 19XX models ended production one could find NOS machines lying about spare. One thus assumes same happened with W10XX and even the odd W770 and W765.

When asked a salesman why a lone W1918 was sitting on sale floor for months after model was discontinued (may have been more than a year), his response was that dealers had to purchase Miele appliances from MieleUSA, so the things couldn't be returned easily if at all. By contractual agreement prices were set by MieleUSA and dealers had little to nil wiggle room.

Usually when an appliance model is discontinued usual practice on this side of pond is to reduce price if it doesn't sell. Longer it sits sitting deeper price chops until it goes.

Sometime in 1980's through 1990's it was Asko, Creda, Bosch and Miele battling it out to bring European front loading washing machines to USA.

Since Miele W1070 and W1065 are 120v/208v-240v at 60hz they were useless outside of North America. Miele wasn't going to ship unsold machines back to Germany for a host of reasons. First being due to voltage and frequency differences they were basically useless.

Miele obviously orders huge amounts of parts when it commissions things from vendors. One wonders if this April 1992 was last batch of timer/programmers ordered from Crouzet. Since they are 115v/60hz couldn't be used on other Miele washers or dishwashers.

 

[launderess]

@ Gizmo

Ohhh, we're a little sauce box this morning aren't we! *LOL*

Find cream sherry rather soothing yet dignified.

"It's ok, leave the bottle".

 

[statomatic]

Well done, glad you sorted it out.

 

[launderess]

Merci beaucoup!

Won't claim total victory until run one or more full cycles to see how timer behaves.

Once that is finally sorted need to fit new hot water solenoid valve.

Alas while one is dreading the thought, that motor needs to come out for checking and probably replacing brushes. That is going to be an adventure.

It's of no use calling Miele USA for service call because am sure they will give "you're machine is old, obsolete, stop bothering us...." response. This and or "we don't do such repairs in field, your washer will need to be taken to New Jersey, work done, then sent returned. All at cost to you including parts, labor, and transit".....

 

[stricklybojack]

.
You may be able to get the motor rebuilt. I follow a lot of car repair guys on YouTube and they get around non-existent and/or impossibly expensive parts by finding shops that can still rebuild almost any starter, clutch, pump, etc.

 

[launderess]

Did one load yesterday evening

Everything seems to work as it should, so that bit is sorted for now hopefully.

But motor sounds like a 747 taxing down runway.

Noticed this noise before several years ago (2012 IIRC), and even called Miele tech to have a look. Thought it might be rear bearings going or something. Tech said noise was normal and "fine", but I still have my doubts.

 

[eddy1210]

Very happy to hear the good news, your 1070 lives on!

 

[launderess]

Thanks Eddy!

Couldn't have done it without your help and rest of the lads.

Very much appreciated am sure...

While had front of machine open took a peek to see what there is inside cabinet.

With only that limited view things looked rather well; no signs of rust or water being slung at back of tub that could possibly indicate tub bearings going.

Was a mercy didn't actually purchase NOS timer motors thinking they were issue. Never occurred to one that mechanical timer/programmer could wear out. But there you are then....

Truth to tell don't use W1070 that often, preferring either of the AEG Lavamat machines for routine daily washing. Modern machines with better control of motor and tub movements show up some of faults in older machines like this Miele.

Like fact Lavamat washers spin after main wash and each rinse for "Normal Cottons/Linens". Think it makes a world of difference when it comes to rinse results.

For those unfamiliar with Miele W1065 and W1070 Eddy has some great videos up on his YT channel.







Among minor quibbles is fact these washers do not cope well with excess froth or even too much water at extraction. Where modern machines will stop or slow down spinning, pump out excess water or froth, then ramp things up again, not these Miele washers.

Machine will slow down spinning while continuing to pump, but if timer is set to advance, it will. This can often mean poor extraction or rinsing results.

Interesting thing is (you can see this in Eddy's videos), rather than sending all that excess froth or water cascading down glass, much of it seems to remain between tub or somewhere.

Owners manual for these washers suggests loading less than full capacity when doing loads of absorbent items like toweling and so forth.

In common with other older three dial European washers, these Miele machines offer a wide range of custom programs. Only thing they will lock out is doing Woolens at any temp above 40 degrees C. Otherwise pretty much sky is limit. Can do a "boil wash" of delicates. My AEG washers only allow two temp choices for "Delicates", 30 and 40 degrees C.

 

[launderess]

@stricklybojack

Have no doubts finding someone to rebuild or otherwise work on big Miele washer motor, this even if had to crate the thing up and send it off somewhere.

Issue is getting that cast iron behemoth of a motor out of washer, then putting it back.

In a marvel of German engineering Miele designed these washers to be totally serviced two main ways; top and front. Getting motor out of washer is majority of battle. Once that is done rest is comparatively simple

 

[launderess]

Maybe normal sounds?

Washer sounds like this when spinning....

 

[askolover]

My Asko has always sounded like a jet taking off since day one bought new. 

 

[henene4]

This machine should have an open bottom, right?

Be careful not to throw your back out.
Get a person to help.
Put some blankets down and tilt and lay on the left side.
Should make things way easier.

I think that the early Novotronic designs just were not easily converted to a different voltage AND frequency.

So they waited a while until they figured that out.

Same weirdness I always thought: There were never any home Novotronic machines with brushless motors.
On the other hand, there were professional machines with brushless motors, but always of the older Novotronic designs with push buttons, not the clocks ones.

 

[ozzie908]

@launderess

If memory serves the main wash motor is an induction type and the brushed motor does the spin, You can if your nimble enough swap out the brushes without removing the motor. Its not easy but can be done. You will know when they have worn down as it will continue to wash but when the timer says spin it will just come to a stop.

Reason they are such a size is its basically 2 motors in 1 its why they go on so long they were built to last in those days ....

Good luck and do let us know how it turns and big claps for sorting the timer yourself a big pat on the back for that one...xx

 

[launderess]

Thanks for suggestions and comments lads!

Think what will do first is get service plate off, then have a look at motor while room is dark and it is in spin. If see sparks, that is clear indication brushes need changing then will have to plot next move.

Otherwise since have two AEG washers, the Maytag wringer and Hoover TT am spoiled for choice washing machine wise. Truth to tell have let Big Bertha sit more unused since AEG Lavamat arrived, then when AEG/Electrolux toplader came she got even less use.

Truth to tell prefer way more modern European washers rinse over older machines. The Miele only does a short pulse spin after third rinse. One full but short follows after fourth before final rinse. Depending upon detergent used and other factors often feel things aren't rinsed very well.

You can see in video posted @R32 getting at motor from bottom seems far easier for either removal or changing brushes.

In any event cannot do anything until obtain extensions for my ratchet set or another with longer reach. So that's me for you.

@ozzie908

Yes, these older Miele washers were built to last. In theory they are like commercial units then and some still now. Virtually everything can be replaced or rebuilt and machine kept going thus indefinitely. There are tons of videos from Europe where DIY and hobbyists have done just that. Even rear bearing replacement is doable if one has proper tools and parts.

It just comes down to cost, best use of one's time, and sourcing of parts.

What toasts one's bread is thinking about how many W1070, W1065, W765 and W770 washers on this side of pond that were rubbished for want of simple repair.

Common thing is when tub stops moving in wash or rinse phase indicating brushes have gone. MieleUSA seems to just have told people "buy new" instead of just replacing the darned brushes.

That or MieleUSA gave customers a load of flannel about how techs do not change brushes or anything else to do with motor in field. Washer must be packed up, sent to Princeton, NJ workshops.....

It's same for rear bearings, suspension springs...

Newer Miele washers now have access panels on side and rear IIRC. Thus in theory swapping out shocks, motor brushes or even motor should be far easier.