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Lawnmower advice needed.
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philr
Well-known member
While I do collect old 2 cycle mowers, I have to agree with John that their engines pollute a lot for such low power engines...
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Mowers.
It's been an interesting thread to watch. I've been checking in a few times per day. I cannot go vintage or cheap with a gas mower because of the hills. Here's the back-story.
My old mower was a Snapper Hi-Vac from the early 2000s. It was given to me by a friend who used it in his landscaping business until the engine was essentially blown to bits. I bought a new Briggs & Stratton overhead Valve engine for it because I could not afford the equivalent Honda engine. I also rebuilt the drive system, got a new Ninja blade, all four wheels, and a new handle. I should have just scrapped it and gotten a new one as the only part I didn't have to work on was the deck. I got the 190cc overhead valve engine and it could always be counted on to start on the 1st pull when cold, even after having sat all winter. My house had been abandoned for 2 years when I bought it (It's still very much a work in progress) and the grass was 4 feet tall. The Snapper went through it without skipping a beat and cut it all.
The problems were that it was heavy as lead. The new engine was huge and HEAVY! My hills are steep and it needed assistance to get going uphill but was better than anything else I have ever used before in similar situations. While it would start up easily when cold, once it was warm, forget it! I think some carburetor service would have fixed its starting problems. Recently, it was running well, but seemed to have limited power and would stall in thicker grass, which it had never done before. As I said before, I think some carburetor work would have set it right again.
When I bought my engine at my local Snapper dealer, I spoke at length with the guys at the parts counter on the pros and cons of different available engines. They told me that the hills would be a problem with the flathead engines because of oil starvation. The flathead engines were easier to service, but if I bought one, it would need more of it, especially with primary use on hills. I was also told that Honda engines run well, last a long time, seldom need service, but would be the most difficult to work on. I settled for the B&S OHV engine because the dealer told me that the OHV engine could better tolerate hills, was easier to service than a Honda engine, but would be more reliable than a flathead. It performed well, didn't drink oil, the carburetor always gave me trouble, but it drank gasoline like it was a V8.
At this point, I'm still leaning toward a Sanpper Ninja series with the disk drive system. I still have all of my Snapper accessories that could work with it. I've read some great things about Toro and some not so great things as well. Many of the Toro issues I've read about have been in regards to transmission failures. I'd consider Honda, if it was as good as a Snapper.
I like the concept of Electric, but have to have self-propulsion. I may even consider a battery powered mower, provided that it had the power to mulch and had a self-propulsion system as effective as the Snapper (rear wheel drive, variable speed, can start and stop easily many times in short distances). There are several abandoned houses in my neighborhood and I occasionally mow their lawns too to keep the local critter population at bay. Those yards are also hilly and in less than pristine shape. When I do mow them, the grass is usually 8 or more inches tall. I liked the Snapper because I could put the drive in slow and charge right in. The Snapper was a beast that could put its power to good use and could grind through just about anything. Is there a self-propelled electric mower that could do that?
I wish I knew who took my mower. I would like to introduce them to my wood chipper, and then my steep wooded ravine. (Yes, I really do own a steep wooded ravine and a wood chipper. I also have a very dark sense of humor.)
Here's the front of my house while I was having the roof replaced from the side with the most gentile hill, and oh look, there's my Volvo too:
It's been an interesting thread to watch. I've been checking in a few times per day. I cannot go vintage or cheap with a gas mower because of the hills. Here's the back-story.
My old mower was a Snapper Hi-Vac from the early 2000s. It was given to me by a friend who used it in his landscaping business until the engine was essentially blown to bits. I bought a new Briggs & Stratton overhead Valve engine for it because I could not afford the equivalent Honda engine. I also rebuilt the drive system, got a new Ninja blade, all four wheels, and a new handle. I should have just scrapped it and gotten a new one as the only part I didn't have to work on was the deck. I got the 190cc overhead valve engine and it could always be counted on to start on the 1st pull when cold, even after having sat all winter. My house had been abandoned for 2 years when I bought it (It's still very much a work in progress) and the grass was 4 feet tall. The Snapper went through it without skipping a beat and cut it all.
The problems were that it was heavy as lead. The new engine was huge and HEAVY! My hills are steep and it needed assistance to get going uphill but was better than anything else I have ever used before in similar situations. While it would start up easily when cold, once it was warm, forget it! I think some carburetor service would have fixed its starting problems. Recently, it was running well, but seemed to have limited power and would stall in thicker grass, which it had never done before. As I said before, I think some carburetor work would have set it right again.
When I bought my engine at my local Snapper dealer, I spoke at length with the guys at the parts counter on the pros and cons of different available engines. They told me that the hills would be a problem with the flathead engines because of oil starvation. The flathead engines were easier to service, but if I bought one, it would need more of it, especially with primary use on hills. I was also told that Honda engines run well, last a long time, seldom need service, but would be the most difficult to work on. I settled for the B&S OHV engine because the dealer told me that the OHV engine could better tolerate hills, was easier to service than a Honda engine, but would be more reliable than a flathead. It performed well, didn't drink oil, the carburetor always gave me trouble, but it drank gasoline like it was a V8.
At this point, I'm still leaning toward a Sanpper Ninja series with the disk drive system. I still have all of my Snapper accessories that could work with it. I've read some great things about Toro and some not so great things as well. Many of the Toro issues I've read about have been in regards to transmission failures. I'd consider Honda, if it was as good as a Snapper.
I like the concept of Electric, but have to have self-propulsion. I may even consider a battery powered mower, provided that it had the power to mulch and had a self-propulsion system as effective as the Snapper (rear wheel drive, variable speed, can start and stop easily many times in short distances). There are several abandoned houses in my neighborhood and I occasionally mow their lawns too to keep the local critter population at bay. Those yards are also hilly and in less than pristine shape. When I do mow them, the grass is usually 8 or more inches tall. I liked the Snapper because I could put the drive in slow and charge right in. The Snapper was a beast that could put its power to good use and could grind through just about anything. Is there a self-propelled electric mower that could do that?
I wish I knew who took my mower. I would like to introduce them to my wood chipper, and then my steep wooded ravine. (Yes, I really do own a steep wooded ravine and a wood chipper. I also have a very dark sense of humor.)
Here's the front of my house while I was having the roof replaced from the side with the most gentile hill, and oh look, there's my Volvo too:
Well, I think the writing on the wall has been evident for some time now. Two stroke motors are on their way out for a number of reasons. Even for hand-held stuff like weed eaters. I happen to have a Ryobi four stroke weed eater which can take a number of attachments, including a mini tiller and a pole chain saw. I've gotten a lot of use out of it, and the motor seems pretty reliable and powerful. The only big problem I've had is with the linkage between the power unit and the various accessories. I have a replacement part for the power unit part of the linkage that one of these days I'll install to resolve that issue.
A while back an Australian company called Orbital had a patented technology to allow for direct injection of 2 stroke motors which was supposed to make them much cleaner and more efficient. However it doesn't appear that the technology has made it into any products. Either they sold it to a big firm (like GM) that buried it, or the tech still wasn't clean enough for the EPA.
That said, my chain saw (Poulan) and my hedge trimmer (Echo) are 2 strokes.
A while back an Australian company called Orbital had a patented technology to allow for direct injection of 2 stroke motors which was supposed to make them much cleaner and more efficient. However it doesn't appear that the technology has made it into any products. Either they sold it to a big firm (like GM) that buried it, or the tech still wasn't clean enough for the EPA.
That said, my chain saw (Poulan) and my hedge trimmer (Echo) are 2 strokes.
I have a 2004 Snapper Hi Vac self-propelled mower with a 7.0 horsepower engine and electric start. It is always used in the mulch mode. It looks similar to this one (found online).
Having used a neighbor's new Toro toward the end of last season, mine is crude by comparison. The Toro mulches much finer and cuts more evenly. It was also easier to maneuver around trees. It wasn't quite as loud as the Snapper and it vibrated less.
My next mower will definitely be a Toro. I'm with Nick on this one.
Having used a neighbor's new Toro toward the end of last season, mine is crude by comparison. The Toro mulches much finer and cuts more evenly. It was also easier to maneuver around trees. It wasn't quite as loud as the Snapper and it vibrated less.
My next mower will definitely be a Toro. I'm with Nick on this one.
turboace
Well-known member
Stihl 4-mix
I just got a new Stihl backpack blower. It uses Stihl's new 4-mix technology. See link. It uses 1:50 oil gas mix like a two stroke, but is a 4-cycle so it has very low emissions and all the power and torque of a two stroke. It's pretty cool, you don't smell like two stroke exhaust after using it and it's much quieter than a two stroke. Not sure if anyone has a mower using this or similar engine yet.
www.stihl.com
I just got a new Stihl backpack blower. It uses Stihl's new 4-mix technology. See link. It uses 1:50 oil gas mix like a two stroke, but is a 4-cycle so it has very low emissions and all the power and torque of a two stroke. It's pretty cool, you don't smell like two stroke exhaust after using it and it's much quieter than a two stroke. Not sure if anyone has a mower using this or similar engine yet.
The STIHL 4-MIX® engine: lightweight power | STIHL
Compact and powerful with a lightweight design that is easy to maintain. Discover the innovative STIHL 4-MIX® engine.
Dave--- My Snapper Hi Vac doesn't like to start when the engine is warm, either. It takes 55 minutes to mow my lawn with the self-propel set at the slowest speed. I always have to make sure not to let the engine shut off halfway through the job or I'm screwed, LOL.
It seems that now it doesnt matter if it is new or old but this new gasoline of today seems to gum of up everything in a motor if its not run frequently. I always use a stabilizer in the tanks of my mower, snowblower, weedwacker, boat motor etc. and they always start.
everythingold
Well-known member
the new stuff is shit
1968 law boy. Everyone envies it. Everthingold
1968 law boy. Everyone envies it. Everthingold
Without researching it further, it sounds to me like Stihl's "4 mix" approach is another solution to the oiling problem that small, lightweight 4 stroke motors without oil pumps can have when their position is expected to be in any number of orientations. Ryobi resolved the issue with a somewhat ingenious oiling system that uses,as I recall, a hollow crankshaft and/or hollow connecting rod. Obviously this isn't an issue with a lawnmower engine which is always pretty much top side up and bottoms side down, so a simple sump and splash lubrication works just fine.
2 stroke motors can be run in any position because the lubrication is in the fuel, and I guess the crankcase is part of the fuel intake path. As I recall the crank bearings in a 2 stroke are roller instead of plain bearings, which also makes lubrication and oil pressure less of an issue.
2 stroke motors can be run in any position because the lubrication is in the fuel, and I guess the crankcase is part of the fuel intake path. As I recall the crank bearings in a 2 stroke are roller instead of plain bearings, which also makes lubrication and oil pressure less of an issue.
twintubdexter
Well-known member
It only figures that you ask for advice on something like a lawnmower and you discover there's dozens of members that are experts. I bought the Outdoor Power department for the hardware chain for about 2 years. Even though the company was under the Sears umbrella so anything branded Craftsman was totally out of my control I still didn't know half as much as I learned reading this thread. Very interesting.
Replacing batteries in cordless mowers-Batteries Plus is a good place to try.For my Greenworks mowers--their website sells replacements or the Lowes place can get them.They take the old ones for recycling.I also have a neighbor that repairs those battery powered riding shopping carts used at various stores-I can get batteries from him.At both places the old batteries-Duds are recycled.Lawnmower theft-I have had two mowers taken from my garage-A nice Kee mower-it was hard to start-but worked well 5 Hp B&S motor.A Toro Recycler mower.Really liked that mower.A new one of that was HORRIBLE-cheap plastic parts that broke.And it had a hard to start motor.Sold it to a neighbor.Haven't seen it.Hope he isn't mad at me.The Ego mower looks nice-sounds interesting.Where do you get them?don't know of any place in Greenville that has them.Guess another to add to my cordless mower collection.So far none have been stolen yet.
I also use a Toro Personal Pace set to the mulching mode. It works great, goes up and down the steep hill with no problems and I don't have any problems making it turn on a dime. Provided the grass is dry and not too long, it mulches very well. This will be its 5th summer in use.
Gary
Gary
mrb627
Well-known member
Well...
I had such a horrible experience with a 'Yard Man' mower from Lowes that I couldn't wait to get rid of it. Replaced it with a Honda from HD and was in mowing heaven. Of course, all my yard work is outsourced now, so I have no idea what rates high on the market.
Malcolm
I had such a horrible experience with a 'Yard Man' mower from Lowes that I couldn't wait to get rid of it. Replaced it with a Honda from HD and was in mowing heaven. Of course, all my yard work is outsourced now, so I have no idea what rates high on the market.
Malcolm
Narrowing it down.
Here are two of the mowers I'm looking at:
Honda
http://powerequipment.honda.com/lawn-mowers/models/hrx217hya
It's $799 on Honda's website, but $699 on Home Depot's website. It has a hydrostatic drive system and Honda's 190cc engine. Honda is having a special which is a free 1 year warranty extension (6 year warranty). Would the Honda 190cc engine be any quieter, more powerful, lighter weight, or fuel efficient than a Briggs & Stratton 190cc OHV engine?
Snapper:
http://www.snapper.com/us/en/push-mower/ninja#specifications
It's $549 with a 3 year warranty. It's got the disk drive system and has a Briggs & Stratton OHV engine.
The third possibility, and it is a distant one, would be a self propelled battery-powered electric mower. The key is that the self-propulsion has to be variable speed and at least as good as the Snapper's disk drive system. My lawn is all steep hills. I also mow some neighboring lawns of abandoned houses which can be anywhere from 6: to 4 feet tall. My old Snapper wasn't phased by that.
Honda vs. Snapper. Which one is best? Is the extra 3 years of warranty and performance difference worth the $150.00 price differential? Is there a battery-powered Mower that would be viable?
Fire away:
Dave
Here are two of the mowers I'm looking at:
Honda
http://powerequipment.honda.com/lawn-mowers/models/hrx217hya
It's $799 on Honda's website, but $699 on Home Depot's website. It has a hydrostatic drive system and Honda's 190cc engine. Honda is having a special which is a free 1 year warranty extension (6 year warranty). Would the Honda 190cc engine be any quieter, more powerful, lighter weight, or fuel efficient than a Briggs & Stratton 190cc OHV engine?
Snapper:
http://www.snapper.com/us/en/push-mower/ninja#specifications
It's $549 with a 3 year warranty. It's got the disk drive system and has a Briggs & Stratton OHV engine.
The third possibility, and it is a distant one, would be a self propelled battery-powered electric mower. The key is that the self-propulsion has to be variable speed and at least as good as the Snapper's disk drive system. My lawn is all steep hills. I also mow some neighboring lawns of abandoned houses which can be anywhere from 6: to 4 feet tall. My old Snapper wasn't phased by that.
Honda vs. Snapper. Which one is best? Is the extra 3 years of warranty and performance difference worth the $150.00 price differential? Is there a battery-powered Mower that would be viable?
Fire away:
Dave
I cant compare the Honda Engine to the B&S engine, but I can compare the Honda Engine you are looking at to the commercial model with the Cast Iron cylinder sleeve and its much much lighter.
Betweeen 3 houses I run a fleet of 4 Honda Mowers, 3 have the Domestic engine as in the model you're looking at on a 19" base and 1 has the commercial engine on a 21" base. The 21" model is the only one with Powerdrive.
I'd find a local dealer that'll let you take the Honda for a test drive. We've got this one http://www.lawnmowers.com.au/Commercial_Lawn_Mowers/HRU216M2 and we find that its great in straight lines, but its a bear to take around curves, there is no Diff so getting it to deviate from straight ahead takes a bit of strong arming. The mower is also incredibly heavy by comparison so that's something else to consider on steep hills.
The other three mowers are variants on this one http://www.lawnmowers.com.au/Domestic_Lawn_Mowers/HRU19M1, the domestic engine is great, always easy to start, and it plows through heavy wet 8" Buffalo grass without choking.
The big disappointment we've had with the newer models in the narrow discharge chute. For some reason they changed from a full width exit chute that never clogged, to a narrow chute that is about 1/3 the width of the back of the mower. If you're mowing in the wet, you need to have the High lift blades fitted and make sure that you step backwards before releasing the handle and engaging the blade brake. Otherwise the discharge chute clogs and you need to clear it with your hands. In dry grass it works fine, but we bought the first newer design model during a wet spell and spent a lot of time with the dealer before it was working in a fashion that we were happy with
From a reliability perspective, we've never had an issue with any of them. Changing the blades is a PITA, you need to take the blade disc off to do it, and that is a challenge without an air gun. I attempted once to change the blades at home and could never get them tight and balanced. In the end I gave up and trundled it off to a dealer to get them to finish the job.
Betweeen 3 houses I run a fleet of 4 Honda Mowers, 3 have the Domestic engine as in the model you're looking at on a 19" base and 1 has the commercial engine on a 21" base. The 21" model is the only one with Powerdrive.
I'd find a local dealer that'll let you take the Honda for a test drive. We've got this one http://www.lawnmowers.com.au/Commercial_Lawn_Mowers/HRU216M2 and we find that its great in straight lines, but its a bear to take around curves, there is no Diff so getting it to deviate from straight ahead takes a bit of strong arming. The mower is also incredibly heavy by comparison so that's something else to consider on steep hills.
The other three mowers are variants on this one http://www.lawnmowers.com.au/Domestic_Lawn_Mowers/HRU19M1, the domestic engine is great, always easy to start, and it plows through heavy wet 8" Buffalo grass without choking.
The big disappointment we've had with the newer models in the narrow discharge chute. For some reason they changed from a full width exit chute that never clogged, to a narrow chute that is about 1/3 the width of the back of the mower. If you're mowing in the wet, you need to have the High lift blades fitted and make sure that you step backwards before releasing the handle and engaging the blade brake. Otherwise the discharge chute clogs and you need to clear it with your hands. In dry grass it works fine, but we bought the first newer design model during a wet spell and spent a lot of time with the dealer before it was working in a fashion that we were happy with
From a reliability perspective, we've never had an issue with any of them. Changing the blades is a PITA, you need to take the blade disc off to do it, and that is a challenge without an air gun. I attempted once to change the blades at home and could never get them tight and balanced. In the end I gave up and trundled it off to a dealer to get them to finish the job.
danemodsandy
Well-known member
A Suggestion:
Whatever you get, here's a tip I learned the hard way:
Get a good-quality bike lock and lock the thing down. This keeps it safer from thieves, and also from family/friends "borrowers."
Seems like overkill, I know. But as I can tell you from having my last garage broken into, without the mower getting stolen, it's not really.
Whatever you get, here's a tip I learned the hard way:
Get a good-quality bike lock and lock the thing down. This keeps it safer from thieves, and also from family/friends "borrowers."
Seems like overkill, I know. But as I can tell you from having my last garage broken into, without the mower getting stolen, it's not really.
I bought a new Craftsman mower earlier this year to replace an older Craftsman that had become increasingly difficult to start. The new one has a Honda engine, their GVC 160. The first time I used it the governor linkage was stuck, it’s on the left hand side of the engine. The result was that it started fine but would hardly run or cut grass. After some fiddling I was more than a bit annoyed and put it up for a couple of days. Next time out it cranked first pull and worked flawlessly. I did notice the linkage that previously had no movement now moved easily; I’m guessing it needed some wiggling after having sat in the box for awhile. It continues to work well, always starting on the first or second pull and not missing a beat. This model is front drive, which I prefer as I can lift the front wheels and turn the mower without disengaging the drive. Although the engine is small it has plenty of power and pulls the mower around much quicker than the old Craftsman.
I have the HiVac, and had it now so far about 3 years, and been a great mower for me.. We have TONS of leaves in the fall, and with the Ninja blade, it pretty much shreads the leaves to dust. Bagger works well too when I have to use it.
I've had a china made mower before this one and only lasted 2 years.. I got soo fed up with it, I just dumped the mower at the guy's shop. and got the Snapper that's made in America!
Like that I am able to control the speed of the enegin I want to.
I've had a china made mower before this one and only lasted 2 years.. I got soo fed up with it, I just dumped the mower at the guy's shop. and got the Snapper that's made in America!
Like that I am able to control the speed of the enegin I want to.
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