Life with the GE Profile DW, 2016
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mark_wpduet
Well-known member
yep, that's a bob load.
What is that fluorescent light green thing? Is that for a mold of some kind? It almost looks like an ice tray.
anyway -
Do you think the packs and tabs are bad for our dishwashers?
Get this, I was looking at reviews on Amazon and came across Finish Gel, which I've never used. Look at the pics of what this stuff did to this person's dishwasher. It should be the first review.
What is that fluorescent light green thing? Is that for a mold of some kind? It almost looks like an ice tray.
anyway -
Do you think the packs and tabs are bad for our dishwashers?
Get this, I was looking at reviews on Amazon and came across Finish Gel, which I've never used. Look at the pics of what this stuff did to this person's dishwasher. It should be the first review.
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www.amazon.com
finish gel
HOLY (*&)^&$%#$#@$%^%^(&*()^%
I know gel is mostly crap, but dang! I've never seen anything bad like that!
Yeah that's enough to BAN gel from my house forever.
Garbage.
I know there's people who LOVE gel, but with these newer machines, with smaller passage ways etc, I cannot see gel being good at all.
I DO, Mark, think the packs and tabs are perfectly safe for our machines.
No worries there.
I'm just not fond of their "once size fits all" scheme, especially when I want to run half loads. In addition, I think they're too strong for my very soft water, so I'd rather meter my doses manually to protect my glassware.
Those green things are indeed ice trays.
I HATED my old plastic ones where the ice would always get stuck and shatter. So I'll try these IKEA silicone trays out.
HOLY (*&)^&$%#$#@$%^%^(&*()^%
I know gel is mostly crap, but dang! I've never seen anything bad like that!
Yeah that's enough to BAN gel from my house forever.
Garbage.
I know there's people who LOVE gel, but with these newer machines, with smaller passage ways etc, I cannot see gel being good at all.
I DO, Mark, think the packs and tabs are perfectly safe for our machines.
No worries there.
I'm just not fond of their "once size fits all" scheme, especially when I want to run half loads. In addition, I think they're too strong for my very soft water, so I'd rather meter my doses manually to protect my glassware.
Those green things are indeed ice trays.
I HATED my old plastic ones where the ice would always get stuck and shatter. So I'll try these IKEA silicone trays out.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
I can imagine what the tabs must be like
in SOFT water! The water here in Lexington is pretty hard. Not the worst in the country, but still it's moderately hard. And even still, one time I had a sample of Finish Quantum (NOT powerball, which is what I use now) and you could hear the dishwasher straining to wash because of all the suds. I can only freaking imagine what that would be like in soft water conditions if it acted like that in hard water. Anyway, running half loads are not a problem for me since my machine won't do that, so it gets ran on a bob load almost every time..
I wonder why GEL would be worse than a hard tab or powder though? I mean, in my mind, it's almost like liquid vs powder laundry detergent. I would think liquid would be more likely to dissolve and wash away....but I guess not.
I know some people on these forums use a little gel in the prewash to get the chlorine bleach action, but they use tabs in the main wash...I think it was DADOES who said that but I'm not sure...I think some gels contain bleach. Me? I just pour a little bleach in at the beginning.
in SOFT water! The water here in Lexington is pretty hard. Not the worst in the country, but still it's moderately hard. And even still, one time I had a sample of Finish Quantum (NOT powerball, which is what I use now) and you could hear the dishwasher straining to wash because of all the suds. I can only freaking imagine what that would be like in soft water conditions if it acted like that in hard water. Anyway, running half loads are not a problem for me since my machine won't do that, so it gets ran on a bob load almost every time..
I wonder why GEL would be worse than a hard tab or powder though? I mean, in my mind, it's almost like liquid vs powder laundry detergent. I would think liquid would be more likely to dissolve and wash away....but I guess not.
I know some people on these forums use a little gel in the prewash to get the chlorine bleach action, but they use tabs in the main wash...I think it was DADOES who said that but I'm not sure...I think some gels contain bleach. Me? I just pour a little bleach in at the beginning.
That poor Voyager!!! I can't believe how bad that was?! I wonder if they had some kind of buildup before using that gel, and the gel made it that much worse.
I've been at the point for the past five or so years that I'd never put powder or liquid gel detergents in my dishwasher again. Years ago, powders were the manufacturers' flagships, so all their premium ingredients went into them. Now, powders and liquids are primarily BOL and cheap, and I've seen with my own eyes what using them does to anyone's machine. I've been on my mother-in-law about using Publix and Kroger brand "lemon" gel in the new Maytag, and even in her old Whirlpool at the old house (I'm talking like a 1970s era WP Imperial, beautiful machine I might add) and after bringing some Cascade and Finish pacs/tablets, she finally saw the difference I was begging her to see.
There have been a few times I've bought a small box of Cascade Complete powder, primarily when I was using the PowerClean, just to throw a dash in the prewash for extra dirty loads, but the few times I'd try using solely the powder, my plastics would feel gritty, and the racks themselves would feel "chaulky" to pull in and out. With the Maytag Voyager I had and now the new Whirlpool, I haven't had a need to try any extras. Surprisingly, despite my WP being TOL and having a diverter, there is no Top Rack/Bottom Rack Only option, perhaps because it uses so little water anyway, and those options only used to shave off 10-15 minutes from the Normal cycle in machines that have had them in the past; if I wanted to run a half load I'd still only be using about 2.5 gallons and the timer would knock down to under 2 hours because of low soil levels.
Pacs and tablets for me are the only things I'll touch now because A) they are usually complete with rinse aid and protector agents for dishes and the machine both, and B) because all modern dishwashers are being designed specifically for use with them, which explains the shapes of the cups like in my WP and John's GE.
As far as the fixed dose for unitized detergents, I myself haven't really had an issue because I only ever wash full and dirty loads in the dishwasher. Laundry detergent pacs, on the other hand, don't do well for me simply because there are so many variables with laundry. You can have a heavily soiled but small load, or a large load that isn't very dirty, but the soil level isn't as easy to determine on clothes as it is with dishes. Every time I try a tub of Tide pods or something similar, I end up with a washer full of suds even with a large load of clothes, or with no fizzing in the water at all and a question of "was this enough detergent, do I need to toss in another and then have too much, why do these clothes not smell as "scented" as the last load", where powders and some liquids are much easier to adjust per circumstance.
I've been at the point for the past five or so years that I'd never put powder or liquid gel detergents in my dishwasher again. Years ago, powders were the manufacturers' flagships, so all their premium ingredients went into them. Now, powders and liquids are primarily BOL and cheap, and I've seen with my own eyes what using them does to anyone's machine. I've been on my mother-in-law about using Publix and Kroger brand "lemon" gel in the new Maytag, and even in her old Whirlpool at the old house (I'm talking like a 1970s era WP Imperial, beautiful machine I might add) and after bringing some Cascade and Finish pacs/tablets, she finally saw the difference I was begging her to see.
There have been a few times I've bought a small box of Cascade Complete powder, primarily when I was using the PowerClean, just to throw a dash in the prewash for extra dirty loads, but the few times I'd try using solely the powder, my plastics would feel gritty, and the racks themselves would feel "chaulky" to pull in and out. With the Maytag Voyager I had and now the new Whirlpool, I haven't had a need to try any extras. Surprisingly, despite my WP being TOL and having a diverter, there is no Top Rack/Bottom Rack Only option, perhaps because it uses so little water anyway, and those options only used to shave off 10-15 minutes from the Normal cycle in machines that have had them in the past; if I wanted to run a half load I'd still only be using about 2.5 gallons and the timer would knock down to under 2 hours because of low soil levels.
Pacs and tablets for me are the only things I'll touch now because A) they are usually complete with rinse aid and protector agents for dishes and the machine both, and B) because all modern dishwashers are being designed specifically for use with them, which explains the shapes of the cups like in my WP and John's GE.
As far as the fixed dose for unitized detergents, I myself haven't really had an issue because I only ever wash full and dirty loads in the dishwasher. Laundry detergent pacs, on the other hand, don't do well for me simply because there are so many variables with laundry. You can have a heavily soiled but small load, or a large load that isn't very dirty, but the soil level isn't as easy to determine on clothes as it is with dishes. Every time I try a tub of Tide pods or something similar, I end up with a washer full of suds even with a large load of clothes, or with no fizzing in the water at all and a question of "was this enough detergent, do I need to toss in another and then have too much, why do these clothes not smell as "scented" as the last load", where powders and some liquids are much easier to adjust per circumstance.
Dishwashers should be more sensitive to dosing in theory, but I guess the fact that you have to dose powders in such small quantities (like, 20-30ml, basicly a small shot glass), it is easy to miss by a big percentage.
For example, lets say your knock you standard 20ml detergent dose down by 25% for a smaller load, you should be dosing about 15ml. 10% measurement inaccuracy should be not uncommon; you and up with max of 17ml for a half load and 18ml min for a full load.
Given the human error, doseing of detergents isn't verry accurate anyways.
Further, the amount of water a DW needs per fill is pretty consistent independend of load size, simply due to dishes not absorbing water and the amount to wet them being reall small. Thus, the concentration of detergent is pretty consistent.
And, last but not least, I guess manufacturers take sensor cycles into account. If you have a heavy soiled load which triggers one or even 2 prewashes, the main wash might end up less contaminated then a medium soil load that dosen't trigger any prewash. So, the actual soil in the main wash isn't directly related to the soil when you load.
On the topic of detergent for the prewash: We have these compacted powder kind of tablets, and if I feel the need for prewash detergent - especilly with our smaller dishwasher - I just break of a corner and throw it in. Gives me at least some peace of mind.
For example, lets say your knock you standard 20ml detergent dose down by 25% for a smaller load, you should be dosing about 15ml. 10% measurement inaccuracy should be not uncommon; you and up with max of 17ml for a half load and 18ml min for a full load.
Given the human error, doseing of detergents isn't verry accurate anyways.
Further, the amount of water a DW needs per fill is pretty consistent independend of load size, simply due to dishes not absorbing water and the amount to wet them being reall small. Thus, the concentration of detergent is pretty consistent.
And, last but not least, I guess manufacturers take sensor cycles into account. If you have a heavy soiled load which triggers one or even 2 prewashes, the main wash might end up less contaminated then a medium soil load that dosen't trigger any prewash. So, the actual soil in the main wash isn't directly related to the soil when you load.
On the topic of detergent for the prewash: We have these compacted powder kind of tablets, and if I feel the need for prewash detergent - especilly with our smaller dishwasher - I just break of a corner and throw it in. Gives me at least some peace of mind.
Overally complicated
I will take a Whirlpool power clean or 1985 GSD940 any day. Personally I see no improvements other than gimmicks to compensate for having a drain pump as a wash motors. The lack of soft food disposer is also rather off putting. I know people appreciate modern appliances and I do admire some of the new advances, but personally I dont see any of it as a real improvement.
I will take a Whirlpool power clean or 1985 GSD940 any day. Personally I see no improvements other than gimmicks to compensate for having a drain pump as a wash motors. The lack of soft food disposer is also rather off putting. I know people appreciate modern appliances and I do admire some of the new advances, but personally I dont see any of it as a real improvement.
joeypete
Well-known member
Nice load John! Hahahaha.
Funny I used the Cascade Platinum packs in my Hobart and they cleaned fine but the machine made this horrible groan noise when it drained and then stopped. Went back to the Cascade Complete powder and it's been fine. I wonder if the extra froth caused problems in this older machine. She didn't sound happy! I used the whole package too so it wasn't just a one time thing. I didn't even use the dispenser cups. Just through one in the sump area. It needed the extra water only cycles to wash away all the suds!
I've had excellent results with the Cascade Complete powder. I haven't tried Finish yet in this machine though. But it's a beast so I don't think the detergent would take away much from its cleaning performance lol.
Funny I used the Cascade Platinum packs in my Hobart and they cleaned fine but the machine made this horrible groan noise when it drained and then stopped. Went back to the Cascade Complete powder and it's been fine. I wonder if the extra froth caused problems in this older machine. She didn't sound happy! I used the whole package too so it wasn't just a one time thing. I didn't even use the dispenser cups. Just through one in the sump area. It needed the extra water only cycles to wash away all the suds!
I've had excellent results with the Cascade Complete powder. I haven't tried Finish yet in this machine though. But it's a beast so I don't think the detergent would take away much from its cleaning performance lol.
Special soft water detergent packs
We got some of those to try...wash well, smell good too. Probably won't get anymore though because they do cost a little more. Since we've been adding the pack to the very beginning of the cycle I haven't noticed anymore foaming issues. I remember back in the '80s and '90's reading on the back of a Palmolive liquid bottle that it had something in it to make it congeal in the cup so it wouldn't just run out while the DW was running. I don't know if it's still that way now. Those pics look as though they may have been using way too much gel for so little water that probably wasn't hot enough at that. My old '97 Maytag ran best with gel in both cups. The first time I disassembled the filter I was amazed at how clean it was in there..only a small piece of plastic wrapper.
We got some of those to try...wash well, smell good too. Probably won't get anymore though because they do cost a little more. Since we've been adding the pack to the very beginning of the cycle I haven't noticed anymore foaming issues. I remember back in the '80s and '90's reading on the back of a Palmolive liquid bottle that it had something in it to make it congeal in the cup so it wouldn't just run out while the DW was running. I don't know if it's still that way now. Those pics look as though they may have been using way too much gel for so little water that probably wasn't hot enough at that. My old '97 Maytag ran best with gel in both cups. The first time I disassembled the filter I was amazed at how clean it was in there..only a small piece of plastic wrapper.
All fascinating input.
Believe it or not, I've not gotten ANY foaming issues in the GE Profile as of yet, even with the action pacs. I'm wondering if the water action just isn't VIOLENT enough?
Andrew's right. Cascade's COMPLETE powder used to be top of the line. Then the pacs came. Everything was reformulated without phosphates, and anyone in hard water started getting a chalky build-up.
I remember this vividly! Everyone thought the "new" dishwashers were crap! Whirlpool's first Voyagers came out around the same time and I remember seeing pics of units with tons of chalky buildup and stains/streaks on the doors and dispensers.
But that all eventually got fixed, BUT only in the tabs and action pacs.
So yeah, I guess the tabs really are the way to go now?
And Cascade Complete is just a relic that was left in the dust, literally.
There's also no doubt the detergent cups are specifically designed for tabs in mind too, for sure.
Oddly enough, I've had good luck with Finish's "gel pacs" in former machines, albeit they don't scrub pots very well. However all regular dishes come out great. Maybe that's a better formulated gel?
Joey, I too have had the experience of the the Finish tabs (white/blue bricks) foaming up a lot in past BOL machines, with more violent wash action, like your KA! Haha. It's been a problem for YEARS!
Can't believe they don't fix it.
And Mark! That's very odd because the Finish Quantum is what I moved to, to get away from the excess foam. Ha!
So WEIRD how these same products act differently in different machines and different water conditions.
Believe it or not, I've not gotten ANY foaming issues in the GE Profile as of yet, even with the action pacs. I'm wondering if the water action just isn't VIOLENT enough?
Andrew's right. Cascade's COMPLETE powder used to be top of the line. Then the pacs came. Everything was reformulated without phosphates, and anyone in hard water started getting a chalky build-up.
I remember this vividly! Everyone thought the "new" dishwashers were crap! Whirlpool's first Voyagers came out around the same time and I remember seeing pics of units with tons of chalky buildup and stains/streaks on the doors and dispensers.
But that all eventually got fixed, BUT only in the tabs and action pacs.
So yeah, I guess the tabs really are the way to go now?
And Cascade Complete is just a relic that was left in the dust, literally.
There's also no doubt the detergent cups are specifically designed for tabs in mind too, for sure.
Oddly enough, I've had good luck with Finish's "gel pacs" in former machines, albeit they don't scrub pots very well. However all regular dishes come out great. Maybe that's a better formulated gel?
Joey, I too have had the experience of the the Finish tabs (white/blue bricks) foaming up a lot in past BOL machines, with more violent wash action, like your KA! Haha. It's been a problem for YEARS!
Can't believe they don't fix it.
And Mark! That's very odd because the Finish Quantum is what I moved to, to get away from the excess foam. Ha!
So WEIRD how these same products act differently in different machines and different water conditions.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
Don't get me wrong -
the finish quantum did a great job of cleaning the dishes. Everything was rinsed away...but I have never heard the dishwasher make that sound while washing until I used the finish quantum. You could hear it straining to wash....I used the samples up and never bought it again. I do not notice this with powerball. But yea, that's weird that you don't have any foaming in soft water, yet I did in hard water. Wild!
the finish quantum did a great job of cleaning the dishes. Everything was rinsed away...but I have never heard the dishwasher make that sound while washing until I used the finish quantum. You could hear it straining to wash....I used the samples up and never bought it again. I do not notice this with powerball. But yea, that's weird that you don't have any foaming in soft water, yet I did in hard water. Wild!
joeypete
Well-known member
Those pacs do make a ton of suds, especially with more vigorous wash action. Every new washer I've seen doesn't have as intense of wash action, and of course they use less water. I really did like the results from the Platinum pacs but my old girl didn't lol. Didn't hear much of a strain, it was just a loud groan after the drain sequence stopped. Maybe it was like a beer burp? hahahaha
vacerator
Well-known member
Suds
inside a dishwasher impair performance.
I rinse food off our dishes, use Cascade gel in the small cup, and a Finish powerball tablet in the main wash cup.
My dishes are always clean and sanitized. I do use the added heat option with the anti-bacterial cycle.
A dishwasher is a sanitizer mainly before a scrubber.
Heat is an enemy of electronics. Use that long high heat pots and pans cycle too often and the control board may fry.
inside a dishwasher impair performance.
I rinse food off our dishes, use Cascade gel in the small cup, and a Finish powerball tablet in the main wash cup.
My dishes are always clean and sanitized. I do use the added heat option with the anti-bacterial cycle.
A dishwasher is a sanitizer mainly before a scrubber.
Heat is an enemy of electronics. Use that long high heat pots and pans cycle too often and the control board may fry.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
With my 2005 voyager WP
I used the pots/pans (longest cycle), hi temp, and the control board never went. Instead, the motor went..
I'm assuming you use the cascade gel in the prewash to get the bleach, right?
I used the pots/pans (longest cycle), hi temp, and the control board never went. Instead, the motor went..
I'm assuming you use the cascade gel in the prewash to get the bleach, right?
A still from my Cascade Platinum review video. I had the same suds issue when I tried Fairy Platinum pacs from the UK years ago.
vacerator
Well-known member
Yes Mark,
but the original finish tabs have bleach also.
I actually use whatever brand of liquid is on sale.
I have been told by one technician that using a lot of cascade liquid and some others can leave a residue which can make the racks bind on the interior.
Said to watch for a white heating element. I haven't had a problem. I do not have very hard water, so that may also help.
A relative has well water, and has already had to replace the dishwasher they got in 2010 because of mineral deposit build up.
but the original finish tabs have bleach also.
I actually use whatever brand of liquid is on sale.
I have been told by one technician that using a lot of cascade liquid and some others can leave a residue which can make the racks bind on the interior.
Said to watch for a white heating element. I haven't had a problem. I do not have very hard water, so that may also help.
A relative has well water, and has already had to replace the dishwasher they got in 2010 because of mineral deposit build up.
joeypete
Well-known member
That's why I use STPP in my dishwasher. I was mixing it in with my detergent daily but since having issues with the ETD tests at work, I now put some in once a week to keep mineral build up down. Really even after 1 use, it removes a lot of the white residue. I don't have hard water here but in Tucson we did. I wish I had known about STPP then! haha.
joeypete
Well-known member
Really John, PLAIN Cascade? Like it's only 6X Power. You need the 100X Power of Super Cascade Rhodium Diamond coated pacs with Ultra wicked concentrated Dawn with Febreeze and Clorox and Nuclear powered dirt blasting power that will clean MY dishes all the way from Chicago to New Hampsha!!! I expected so much more from you!
Hahahahaha!
In all seriousness though, I'm sure they will work just fine. Can't wait to see your next load! LOL ;-)
Hahahahaha!
In all seriousness though, I'm sure they will work just fine. Can't wait to see your next load! LOL ;-)
Pacs
I have to admit I rarely if ever use pacs... how do they compare to powdered?
I have to admit I rarely if ever use pacs... how do they compare to powdered?
