Looking for a Hobart-Kitchenaid Dishwasher

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jkbff

jkbff

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Hello all!

I have been lurking for a while and have decided to actively try to find a hobart-made kitchenaid dishwasher. My Mother had one when I was a kid and I used to fall asleep in front of it because I found the sound soothing...

I was thinking about getting a miele because I love some of the features, but I don't love the price tag. If I am going to stay in the cheaper range, I may as well find a no longer loved kitchenaid that I can love for years to come.

The main problem I face is that I can't find one in my area of North Dakota. Ebay is showing several listings of serviced ones, but that brings another problem... What are the differences between kdp, kdc, kds and kdi etc model codes? Also, what are the differences between generations? I am getting a feel that the general sought-after one is a KDS18. Is there a listing somewhere that provides a generation-generation change?

If you guys could help, or know of a decent KDS that could be shipped to my area, please let me know! Happy ware-washing!
 
Let's do letters first
C=custom-bottom of line--full cycle (normal wash), added rinse & hold after 16 seriews
I=Imperial next up--added Soad & Scrup with 17 series
P=Patrician only found in 18-20 series I believeHad rapid avance timer, pretty much everything but Sani Rinse and maybe adjustable top rack.
S=Superba, the top of the line--full featured

16 & 17 Series still single-wash level, one-arm design.
18 Series added wash arm below upper rack.
19 series offered automatic water heating but only no-heated dry.
20 series had water heating and also returned heated dry
21 series--the last of the Hobart product. during the 21 series is when Whirlpool acquired KitchenAid and some of the 21 series wasn't made by Hobart but still had all the same racking and porcelain interior

I'm sure I missed some of the more finer points, but it's a good general overview. You can use my email in my profile to contact me.

Hope this helps.
 
Thanks for the reply!

So, when did they include wash arm on the top of the tub? The 19 had no heated dry? Did it have the fan option taken out as well? Do the 20's hold up?

I don't suppose you know what years what generations were made?

I have a Edgestar DWP60ES 6 place counter-top dishwasher that doesn't have heated dry. I've gotten used to that, but if the 19 has the fan, I'd probably be ok with that. I plan on putting the counter-top model in the cabinet next to my sink and the kitchenaid in freestanding cabinet with an enameled cast deep wash sink in my utility/pantry of my studio apartment.
 
Yes, We Do!

"I don't suppose you know what years what generations were made?"

Here, direct from the AW.org Archives, is the official KitchenAid list of its models and their production dates.

And direct from me, here's a hint: Go for a Superba, the TOL model. Used, they cost no more, and the extra features make them extra-satisfying to own and use. Fortunately for your quest, Superbas are actually the most common KA's to find; it seems that anyone who could afford a KA brand new usually went whole hog:

danemodsandy++7-29-2013-07-17-28.jpg
 
Constant Rinse

Joshua,
The small waash arm you referred to was called "Constant Rinse." This little addition came out on the 16 series machines and ended with the 18 series. It did help keep the "yibbles" out of the tops of cups and bowls in the top rack. They were very easily broken and I would venture to guess that the average user probably did not know it was even there so they would just load up the top rack and slide it in and if it encountered some resistance, they pushed the rack harder until it slid in,resulting in a broken rinse assembly. They are no longer available but sometimes they show up on Ebay. They also changed the design from the original so keep your eyes open for one on Ebay if you should find yourself with an 18 series.
It did not provide any fresh water risning but was powered by the wash pump and sent detergent laden water over the stuff in the top rack. Of course, during the rinses, it would send that clean water over the dishes.

The constant rinse arm was removed with the 19 series and did not reappear until the tall tubs came out. It did look like it was thought about for the 24 series Whirlpool clone as there was a small tube on the top of the water supply tube for the upper wash arm that was capped off but I guess they changed their minds about it for the KA line.

The tall tubs have a spinner which now looks like the original design from the late 60's while some of the Kenmores and Whirlpools had one that emulated the newer designed which was a rotating disc which flung the water out over the dishes.
 
I'm gonna keep looking for a Hobart-made Kitchenaid, but doing a lot of calling around the last few days is proving fruitless... I started snooping around on the net and came across this from gardenweb:

User Lee676 posted:
KitchenAid dishwashers made from about 1985 to 1993 (or whenever the Hobart design was replaced by the Whirlpool-based design) were actually manufactured by Emerson, parent company of Insinkerator. When Whirlpool tried to buy KitchenAid, they were hit with an antitrust lawsuit from both WCI and Magic Chef, which both argued that the proposed sale of Kitchenaid would give Whirlpool an illegally high concentration of market share that would force smaller competitors of the market. The Zagrans law firm (of which Whirlpool was a client) has the text of the injunctions online (WCI vs. Whirlpool); the court initially ruled against Whirlpool, blocking the buyout of KitchenAid. The legal documents provide interesting reading; in order to get the legal green light, Zagrans and Whirlpool came up with a scheme that would skirt antitrust law by having Hobart sell Kitchenaid to Emerson rather than Whirlpool, and arranging a sweetheart deal that would have Emerson build their latest-design dishwasher exclusively for Whirlpool (branded KitchenAid) and themselves (branded InSinkErator) for the next 8 years, after which legal barriers would be lifted. Whirlpool would pay 20% above cost for the dishwashers they bought from Emerson. But the court ruled that Whirlpool would effectively control Emerson's production, so it still didn't fly until Zagran amended the proposal to allow Emerson to sell their older-design dishwashers to any other manufacturer that wanted them, not just Whirlpool. The idea was that in the 8-year period, Emerson could strike deals with other appliance manufacturers that made only cooking appliances and needed to rebrand an outsourced dishwasher to have a complete line of kitchen appliances, thus maintaining a competitive market. As it turned out, I don't think any other company ever bought Emerson's dishwashers, InSinkErator didn't sell many dishwashers, and they never expanded either manufacturing or branding into other major appliances, and after the 8-year period lapsed, Emerson and ISE simply abandoned dishwashers altogether.

Are the Emerson made dishwashers decent or did they completely go away from the hobart designs?
 
I may be over-simplifying things, but while Emerson may have built the dishwashers, the design and specs were still all from Hobart until Whirlpool came in, and even then Whirlpool made no major/visible changes until production began on the series 23 machines.

 

Steve T. posted a link to that same injunction document quite some time ago, and it was very informative.  I happen to own two InSinkErator Classic Supreme dishwashers (one is my daily driver, the other a functional spare) which are clones of KA series 22 machines.  Part of the agreement allowing Emerson to put the ISE badge (or any others) on KA machines required them to come up with a different lock/latching system so a lower priced ISE wouldn't look identical to a KA.  $250K later, Emerson had a design for a new latch with a side-to-side movement instead of the KA type that flipped up and down.  I've come to prefer that design over KA's after using my ISE for the past couple of years.

 

If you want a "true" Hobart machine, you should be looking for a series 20 or older.  Those will have the non-reversing motor that was dropped starting with series 21 machines, which used reversing motors made by Emerson.  Personally, I'd pursue a series 18 or 20 (I want the option of a heated dry cycle which the 19's don't have) because they employ a separate wash arm for the upper rack which facilitates carefree loading.  Series 17, 16 and 15 have just the single 4-way Hydrosweep wash arm and as a result loading the lower rack will sometimes require a strategy.  If you're OK with a single wash arm, I suggest not going for anything older than a series 15.  Prior to that, the capacities were smaller, rack design was still based on the earliest KA home models, and there were fewer options.  As was stated further upthread, set your sights on a Superba model for the most options and visual appeal.

 

 
 
The single wash arm,

aka "4 Way Hydro-Sweep" or "Hurricane In A Box" works just fine with minimal attention to lower rack loading, and do consider models other than the Superba only. We've had most iterations of KA Series 15 thru 18, still have a 17 Custom and Imperial and 18 Patrician and Superba, and we actually prefer the 17 Custom models for their short cycling and much simpler wiring, and while they don't have all the bells + whistles or fancy looks of a KDS, simplicity is an advantage in ANY machine, especially a 40 yr old one, if the basics are sound. They have the same motor/pump, same blower dryer, imo clean and dry just as well, again with just minimal attention to not blocking the water via lower rack obstructions, and they are classic Hobart in quality and function. My $.02
 
In the supermarket there was a post for a portable kitchenaid in butte Mt. I contacted the seller and she said she'd hold the machine for me to pick it up on Sunday. Seeing how I only have a sedan I am going to borrow a family members old van and make the 7 hour schlep over there to get this machine.

With that said, how does one carry this machine in a minivan with out damaging it? When I get there what are things I should look for that would cause me to not want this machine? I'm hoping she sends me more pics of the machine before Sunday.

If anything wish me luck!
 
It shouldn't matter much how you transport the machine, but if you're going to lay it on its back or side, remove the racks first.

 

Since it's a portable, IIRC the coupler for the faucet connection is at the top rear on these machines.  If you lay the machine on its back, you may want to pull the hoses out so the coupler isn't down by the floor of the vehicle, otherwise you may have some leakage if there's any water sitting in the pump.
 
That stainless one is pretty, but Jersey is a lil far away from me lol... 7 hours to pick this one up is a bit far too but its too good of a deal to pass up...

That being said, she emailed me and told me I'll have to sand the top down and oil it and that it hasn't been used for several years because she had one plumbed in.. She said it was her step-moms and she only used it when they had big get-togethers as a backup.

What actions will I have to take to make sure everything is sealed up, lubed and working again before I can do a maiden load of dishes in it?

I am hoping that running some barkeepers friend in an empty load is safe for it cause I wanna clean the tub and baskets..

Also, what kind of detergent works best in this machine? Right now I use Melaleuca products.

I really can't wait until tomorrow.. I'll probably leave tonight LOL.
 
After examining the components in the machine's sump area and before you attempt to run it, dump maybe 1/2 gallon of very hot water (but not boiling) into the sump area and let it stand for a while to soften up the rubber pump seal.  This is standard operating procedure with a machine that has been sitting idle for a long period.  If you see any drips under the machine when you do this, make sure they're not getting inside the motor or the presence of water will short it out.  With use, a small leak will often seal itself back up.  Just be vigilant in the beginning.

 

I don't know if BKF is recommended, but someone else here can perhaps advise on that.  I used Lemishine (Target carries it) to clean the interior and freshen up my In-Sink-Erator (KA series 22 clone) once in a while.

 

Depending on the softness/hardness of your water supply, you may need to include a phosphate additive with your detergent.  Bubble Bandit is one brand of automatic dishwasher detergent that still contains phosphates, or you can invest in a big tub of STPP to supplement in whatever dosage provides satisfactory results.

 

Again, since your machine has only the lower wash arm, you'll need to be careful about how you load the bottom rack to make sure no large items like pots prevent the spray from reaching the top rack.  A single pot probably won't be a big deal, but if you have a few of them to wash, they could effectively block the spray and compromise cleaning of contents on the top rack.
 
From what has been said it's a portable 18, its got all three arms. There is a link to some pictures in reply 13. If the link doesn't work let me know.

So I don't have to dump oil or anything in it then right? Also, with this being a portable, will the bottom be exposed? I've never seen one of these out from under a cabinet before.

I am so excited to get this.. I just hope I don't need any parts.
 

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