Mechanical Front Load Speed Queen

[Chetlaham]

Whats preventing SQ from making a fully mechanical front load washer? This looks like a really nice washer:



Couldn't the suspension handle it, and a few displacement switches should it get to out of balance?

 

[rp2813]

I was expecting a lot less balancing BS based on the accolades I've read here in the past.  Seems like a typically indecisive modern day FL machine in that regard.

 

My no-nonsense 2004 Neptune FL still beats the pants off of this SQ.  Analog controls, shorter cycle times, and no balancing acts.

 

[DADoES]

 
All Neptune frontloaders have two computer boards (machine control and motor control), including the MAH3000 and MAH4000 with a mechanical timer.  The machine control board signals the timer to increment.

Neptune MAH3000 Machine Control Board

Neptune MAH3000 Motor Control Board

 

[launderess]

Nothing is "preventing" SQ or anyone else from manufacturing mechanical timer or otherwise controlled washing machines, dishwashers, dryers, etc... It's just that the world has moved on...

Advances in technology have allowed move from not just electro-mechanical machines that were partially electronic, to fully and thus mechanical timers have almost vanished from scene. Add to this costs have come down making it a very easy decision for appliance builders.

Back in 1980's or even 1990's you had to spend more and get MOL or even TOL appliance to have fully "electronic brain" controls. Now they are available at nearly all price points.

That being said there are still commercial and domestic washing machines out there with mechanical timers, but their numbers are dwindling as new offering.

https://www.rebuilttimers.com

At least with H-axis washing machines there is a world of difference between even electro-mechanical models versus fully controlled off a motherboard.

Both of my more modern AEG washing machines cope far better with out of balance loads than the older Miele. Also using a motherboard/computer programming allows for far more cycle options than before. There is only so much space on a mechanical timer, but for fully computer controlled sky is limit.

Modern front loaders rival commercial/industrial computer controlled machines for cycle options. Everything from simple cottons/linens to diapers, duvets, woolens, silk, hand wash, synthetics, no iron, to "energy savings", and "quick wash".....

One of major complaints about early SQ washers released for domestic use was they tended to vibrate, a lot. Some of this was of course fact those SQ machines were (and still largely are) commercial OPL washers designed to rest upon very solid flooring.

While haven't tried newest offerings from SQ for home use, if they are like the ones in laundromat washers do a better job of distributing and balancing wash so there is less vibration during spinning.

 

[Chetlaham]

Thanks for the replies. The whole spin balance thing is sadly a big driver behind electronics in modern FL washers. Which is one reason I thought about eliminating the spin cycle in the combo machine I was thinking about. I just wish I could use a FL washer without semi conductors inside it.

I do like the Neptune, it seems like it has the most promise for being fully EM.

I personally think FL try to much to balance. [this post was last edited: 11/2/2020-01:05]

 

[rp2813]

My Neptune model is MLG2000AWW.  A stacked unit. 

 

I realize that there are likely some electronic components in its design, but what matters to me is that I can turn a knob, push start, and leave the area.  Boom, done.  Entirely efficient; no need for reading glasses.  I don't need or want "sky's the limit" options to sort through.  That is all fluff driven by the motivation to charge more for esoteric options most people will never use.

 

 As Jon stated in the current "holy grail" Frigidaire thread, drilling down through menus is no way to do laundry, cook (crock pot, instant pot, microwave, steam, or conventional oven, etc.) clean the dishes, vacuum, or even turn on a damned lamp in the living room.  I'm sure I've only scratched the surface.

 

Whatever electronics are involved in my Neptune's spin process, they seem to do a superior job of figuring out how to balance a load without missing a beat.  How difficult can it be for other manufacturers to manage this?

 

[tomturbomatic]

Funny, I remember the Neppie's MAX EXTRACT spin option gave far fewer balancing opportunities before just hauling off and going into a regular speed spin. Jeans were hell to get to balance. If you wanted them max-extracted, you had to let it go through a regular spin then distribute it and let it do a MAX-EXTRACT. I remember that with off balance loads the rear of the tub would fishtail because of the suspension with only two shocks under the midpoint of the drum and 4 springs above.

 

[ea56]

All this “algorithm” nonsense is why I’ll probably never own another new FL.  The last “new” FL’s that I can recall that weren’t temperamental about  going into a spin were the new generation Frigidaire FL’s that were introduced in about 1997.  They still used the tried and true method of gradually increasing the spin speed, causing the load to naturally distribute into a balanced condition before increasing to max spin speed which was noticeable by the jet like sound they made at top spin rpm.

 

Personally, all this computerized crap, with cycles for every different type of load known to man are a great big waste of time and not necessary.  The ability to select the water temp, water level and wash and spin speeds by the user are all that is necessary, PERIOD.

 

Simple makes way more sense and is user friendly.

 

Eddie

 

[rp2813]

AMEN Eddie! 

 

As for Max Extract, that has been my default setting since living for the past 2+ years in the house that the Neptunes came with.  Unless it's something really special that I don't want badly wrinkled, top speed is it.

 

[Chetlaham]

@ea56: I like you! This is why I'm trying to design a no none sense front loader. Spinning is an issue I keep having trouble with. In all honestly I'm thinking of just going into spin. If the tub hits the cabinet terminate spin and move on. I no longer care to be honest. Front Load machines are painfully complicated either software wise or to many of them in the old days wiring/timer wise. Those brushed motors were stupid IMO.

On a similar note maybe I've just had bad luck, but the few none bolt down front loaders that I've used would sometimes get scary in spin. One was a Kenmore Frigidaire.

 

[kb0nes]

Why would someone want a fully mechanical machine??

To give up the advantages that modern electronics can bring would be ridiculous. Doing it mechanically would certainly, cost more, have far less flexibility and likely be less reliable. But I suppose there are those that have an irrational fear of electronics. It is a bit like the amateur mechanics not embracing fuel injection early on, it was bad because they didn't understand it.

I certainly hope to never again own a machine with a crude mechanical timer or a nasty transmission filled with oil.

We have a largish CNC Lathe at work with a 25hp motor that is fully electronically controlled, no gears or gearbox at all. From 100-2600 rpm in either direction continuously variable all electronically. Best Lathe we have ever owned.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

although I don't need all these fancy options,

it's nice to have to try out. I mostly use the normal cottons cycle, even on fancy machines.

 

[qsd-dan]

"Why would someone want a fully mechanical machine??"

That's all I ever owned and it has served me extremely well.

With that said, mechanical timers started getting cheaply manufactured by the early to mid 1990's and didn't hold up nearly as well as their predecessors. If they aren't difficult to turn and don't make a racket while selecting a cycle, they probably won't hold up for 30-40 years.

Control boards/panels CAN be well made and designed to last for decades but overall aren't due to cost measures and planned obsolesce. It's just the way the world works now or prices for a good washer/dryer set would cost $4,000-$5,000. Even then, by law, manufactures can obsolete parts after 10 years.

Hobarts venture in using control boards in their KDSS model dishwashers in the 1980's did not share the same reliability as their mechanical timer brethren. Some of Whirlpools late 70'sthrough early 90's control boards on their washers/dryers were troublesome. Maytags control boards in their A9900/LAT9900/LAT9904 washer/dryers held up quite well but heavy use caused the touch panels to wear out prematurely. Touch panels were not sold separately, the whole control board had to be replaced.

Flexibility is greatly increased over mechanical timers, no argument there.

Give me a well design designed oil filled transmission any day of the week! Ever hear a top loader with an inverter motor? They produce an annoying whine that sounds like a slow death.

Early fuel injection: Those were a complete nightmare to diagnose with some designs being garbage from the beginning (GM's crossfire fuel injection comes to mind). Reliability on Americans vehicles were very sketchy during the OBD1 days! No real time data and each model had its own unique way to put the computer into diagnostic mode which was absurd to keep up with. It didn't matter, anyway, because the self diagnostic methods were so primitive that you be lucky to trigger a code, or a code that nailed problem. Most diag was using an ohm and volt meter and testing sensors/wiring individually, sometimes having to test them both hot and cold to locate the problems if it was temperature related. If you had a lots of cash or were lucky to work at the dealer, expensive breakout boxes were used and sometimes required for diag and repair work.

Remember Ford's early throttle body fuel injection system that still used a choke and pull off valve? Then Ford in its infinite wisdom discontinued that piece in the mid to late 90's leaving a bunch of angry owners with no cold fast idle on their 10 year old vehicle. GM and their high computer failure rates of the 80's and 90's that would leave people stranded in their brand new car (happened to my grandparents). Bulky and expensive air flow meter units. Various fast idle enrichment systems like Auxiliary Air Valves would fail if the bi metal spring or heating element failed. Low or no fast idle if the passages in the throttle body plugged up. If the coolant was regularly serviced ever 2 years, junk would plug up the passages in the valve and the engine would never come down from a fast idle. Speaking of coolant, if the system was burped correctly after servicing, the idle would fluctuate all over the place. I could go on forever, but I remember those days and still help people diagnose and fix those old OBD 1 systems. They're fun if you want to challenge your diag skills.

 

[Chetlaham]

@kb0nes: I don't see why it would be less reliable. There is not much that can go wrong with a Singer/Mallory/well built Eaton timer, 50UF capacitor and an induction motor. Reliability goes up, not down.

 

[combo52]

Maytag Electronic Laundry Boards

The control boards on Mts first electronic stacked machines [ LSE-G 1000 ] 1985-1990 were terrible, we replaced them constantly, The board and membrane were separate parts and you often just needed one or the other.

 

They did get better like most things MT ever built after about 5 years also around 1990 MT started building the stacked laundry with mechanical timers because of all the problems with the electronic models, unfortunately they used the crappy Kingston timers at first and had lots of failures with these timers, later they changed to the Mallory metal frame timers but by the late 90s timers on most appliances were getting pretty bad.

 

John L.

 

[Chetlaham]

If you ask me the best timers were those 80s singer timers in Potscrubbers and Fitler flo washers. They seemed to last.