Miele Heat Pump Dryers, 120V!

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washingpowder

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I'm shocked Miele came out with apartment-friendly heat pump dryers. Matter of fact, only two models are available on their website, and both are 15A, 120V. The instructions even mention an adapter to use in case only a 240V socket is available.

If there was an extra 1.5k in my bank account, I'd buy it in a snap.

 
Yay! So when I OWN my unit and the washer ban's been lifted I'll have one of these guys sitting next to whatever the largest available 120v combo is available. :-)

In the co-op where I'm renting (and want to buy --as I've mentioned ad nauseum) all units have gas stoves. No units have the kitchen or bath on an exterior wall. Wiring is 120v only. So 120v ventless will be the only option.

Jim
 
But we already knew this.....

There are one or maybe two threads here in the group (archives) regarding Miele's 120v heat pump dryers.

Having ceased importing 208v-240v washing machines to North America for domestic use (Little Giant and other model washer are from the professional division) in favor of 120v, now a matching dryer with similar power requirements means both can operate on same circuit. This totally removes one of the reasons many in past couldn't or wouldn't buy Miele laundry appliances; need for 220v power.

All this being said don't think the T1 dryers are selling in any great numbers. No one seems to be talking about them in terms of user reviews. In fact have seen at least two units that were basically new being offered on CL.

Am not going to stir those old pools, but am guessing there is some resistance to those two hour (or slightly more) drying times.
 
Compact Heat Pump Dryers

Would only need 120 volts, but if the washer has a heater in it you will still need more than one 120V 20 AMP circuit to run both at once.

 

A 120 V KM-WP compact dryer will still dry clothing faster, but will use over twice as much power, Jim if I were in that apartment a would install a compact WP gas dryer and just [ discreetly ] let it vent out a window while in use.

 

John L.
 
They only use a few hundred watts of power. I have a T1, albeit the 230V European version, and it's a very effective machine and extremely gentle on delicate fabrics compared to anything else I've ever used.

Whatever you do, DO NOT use dryer sheets in these machines. It has the potential to coat the very complex filter system and heat exchanger.
 
Well, Iḿ starting to get tired of my current setup. The Bosch started ripping clothes when a large load is being washed (The baffle-drum connection is suspected) and the GE Spacemaker dryer is just so low efficiency and small...

My only thing is - do I get the TwinDos model or not? Would love to have the ability to dose detergent automatically, but don't plan on using Miele's own concoctions. Actually have bottles of detergent and oxygen bleaching agent I could use instead - if the settings can't be adjusted and one has to imitate Miele's setup - but does anyone know how well would that work? Haven't seen empty containers available anywhere.

If anyone is using those machines please chime in.
 
Our family owns both the w1 and T1 in the USA. Top models on both washer and dryer. The dryer finishes full loads that were spun at 1600RPM In 50-70 minutes. Smaller loads are done quicker. I have never had a dryer cycle take two hours ever in the T1.

You can run both the washer and dryer on a single 20amp circuit at the same time.

We have over 1000 hours on the washer and 350 on the dryer. Dryer was bought after the washer. No real problems with either of them. The dryer DOES have additional lint filters and you MUST clean them diligently or dry times increase. There are two main filters that I would call “traditional” lint filters. There is also a washable fine particle filter directly in front of the condenser. This must be cleaned every 30-40 cycles. I clean it by using the round dusting brush attachment on our Miele vacuum. The manual says the filter can be washed as well, but I think that would shorten its life. The lint on this filter is very fine particle and I would only vacuum it with a sealed and heap filtered vacuum. If you don’t have one of those then washing would be preferred.

The dryer does sensor dry very well. It is possible to customize the final residual moisture content of the last two levels (Normal Plus and Extra Dry). Normal plus is what we usually use. It leaves just a little moisture so items don’t shrink, but is dry enough to fold and put away at the end of the cycle. Extra Dry we usually only use for an oversized towel load or a very thick item that takes longer for the middle layer to dry.

The normal cycles DOES NOT reverse tumble. Wrinkle Free DOES reverse tumble during the cycle. This has not been a problem with getting things dry.

The W1 twindos empty bottles DO NOT fit in the USA washer models. The shape of the twindos slot in the washer was modified so it will not accept the empty bottles. I bought them and found this out when trying to use them. They won’t fully insert into the slot. If you notice the UltraPhase cartridges now have indents on the top and bottom of the bottle on the end with the dispensing port. This allows the cartridge to be inserted into the USA models. The empty bottles Miele offers in Europe have square ends where the dispenser port is located. The square ends hit the bottem of the angled slot inside the machine and prevent them from being fully inserted.

Our solution has been to refill the UltraPhase cartridges with a funnel when they are empty. I bought a small funnel set at the hardware store that has angled spouts. The dispensing spout has a spring loaded plunger that can be pushed down with the funnel spout. Once the UltraPhase cartridge is empty I put water in the bottle using the funnel and then rinse and empty by holding the spring loaded plunger in with the funnel. I triple rinse the bottles to clean them before switching detergents. I then fill the UltraPhase bottle half full with water, reinsert into the washer and run the twindos maintenance for the slot the bottle is inserted. This flushes any remaining detergent in the injection pump so it doesn’t react with the new detergent.

Finally remove the bottle, drain the water and refill with your detergent of choice. We have been using Tide PurClean with no problems. Have refilled the factory cartridge 8 or 9 times now. The dose setting may need to be adjusted, but that is trial and error anyway.

We use Ecover non-chlorine bleach (7% hydrogen peroxide) in the UltraPhase 2 cartridge. If you don’t want to use any bleach, distilled water could be used. The TwinDos system in USA machines won’t work at all unless both cartridges are inserted and have liquid in them. Never use chlorine bleach in the TwinDos bottles. It will eat away at the components since the liquid sits in the chemical pumps and hoses in between washes. This is probably why Miele made it difficult to use anything other than their own offerings in the TwinDos system. Refilling with a funnel is actually pretty easy and I would say probably just as easy as trying to pour into the hole in the top of the official refillable bottles. The upside is if you damage a factory bottle or it wear out you get a full bottle of detergent in a replacement. The empties from Europe cost as much as a full bottle and you don’t get any detergent with them.

We love this system and it has really helped save detergent and prevent over or under dosing. Using your own detergent can save a LOT of money as well. Tide is significantly cheaper on a per ounce basis compared to the Miele detergent. It cleans just a good for our clothes.

We are happy with both machines. We are doing 35-50 loads of laundry per week. All washed and dried in the W1 and T1. Since swapping the Miele T9800 with the T1 our electric bill dropped $15-$20/month. We are also not venting heated air out the vent anymore and have noticed the furnace does not cycle quite as much either. For the amount of laundry we do, the T1 has had a noticeable decrease in our electric bill. Depending on how much laundry you do you may not notice a huge electric savings. We figure over the 10,000 hour life of the machine it should have $800-$1000 in electricity.

The T1 is a great dryer. It is uber expensive. We wanted the glass door. That is the only reason we bought the top end model. We don’t use the steam refresh, etc. 95% of the cycles are Normal on the “normal plus” dryness setting.

There is a 250 post thread on the w1/t1 combo over on Houzz Laundry Forum. Many of these questions you may have should be in there. There are also several threads here.

Good luck with your research.
 
That's quite mean of Miele to lock the US market into using their consumables only. I think they'd probably have a big backlash in Europe as even though they're expensive machines, Miele is up against a lot of refillable autodose models from other companies and also the German and other consumer magazines would probably get very nasty about lock-in approaches.

I'm also surprised the T1 doesn't reverse on all cycles. Ours does. it does a short reverse regardless of which cycle you pick they all have it.i wonder why they didn't do that on the US model?

The Ultra phase detergent bottles changed design here too - but I think that's more just the packaging than anything else. They now have a foil rather than rubber cap and are a bit slicker looking as a design but the fit of the container is obviously completely unchanged as they're still compatible with existing washing machines.

The scent was changed completely. It reminds me of Unilever Persil Non Bio Liquid as sold in the UK and Ireland. I think it's a major improvement as I found the first version tended to leave a bit of a sharp and acidic scent which has now been replaced by a very mild uplifting kind of scent that isn't clawing.

There's a unscented version too.

Generally, I like the detergent. I'm getting very good results with it and finding it keeps colours very well, particularly black clothes. It's noticble that it really seems to preserve the colours even compared to mainstream colour detergents.
 
Hard to credit

Miele is so spiteful they purposely designed out any possibility of North American consumers importing empty or whatever bottles of Ultraphase products from Europe.

But then again we are talking about Miele, have had enough experience with that lo that wouldn't trust them an inch.

Other than on Hourzz, this site and maybe few others have heard very little about Miele T1 dryers in North America. Don't believe they are selling well as nearly no real world consumer reviews/information (other than previously mentioned) appears in various media.

Saw a T1 on CL locally (Long Island) several months ago. Sellers wanted nearly what the thing cost new, and IIRC it was just that; they just didn't like it and couldn't return so were attempting to move the thing on.
 
It's really strange how different they seem to be in the US market.

They're obviously top of the line here and pretty expensive, but their customer care is second to none and they're extremely helpful to deal with. It's probably one of their main selling points for me.

I've had outstanding technical support, parts support and so on. If you need anything they'll usually just be extremely helpful. We had some issues with brackets and so on for an unusual kitchen installation and they just couriered whatever we needed.

Also the W1 here absolutely doesn't try to lock you in. You can use any liquids in combination, including softeners or liquids for wool or delicates. The whole dispensing system is completely programmable through the menus. The only think you have to remember is to run the maintenance cycle. You fill the refillable container (s) with water and select maintenance from the menu and it pumps the water through the dosing pump(s) and then emories. You're advised to do this if you switch products or, once in a while but using non Miele detergent (I guess anything not specifically designed for pump dosing).

Also the detergent drawer dispenser works exactly as normal, so you can add powders, stain removers, softener, starches or Miele pods which I consider a total waste of plastic.

I get the impression they have a much geekier and technocratic market here who expect all the programmability whereas in the US they seem to be just niche ultra luxury brand for people with more money than sense.

Miele in Europe is expensive but it's not insanely so. It's just the top of the market but still fairly mainstream. I mean kind of like the way maybe Speedqueen is in the US or maybe Maytag was once upon a time.

It's disappointing to hear they haven't taken that ethos across the Atlantic.
 
@ Iej

I have a heat pump dryer and have found that dryer sheets are useless anyway as it doesn't get hot enough to activate the scent in the sheet so quit using them. I use Lenor gold only as its the only one that does not irritate skin maybe thats because we have used it for so long but I digress. The dryer sheets are used on dog towels in the old vented dryer own the shed there are no sensors in it as its timed only and around 18 years old now.
 
Dryer sheets

Found the "dry" dryer sheet kind (paper packaging, grainy sometimes semi-transluscent texture, waxy feel) does barely work.

However, the wet type of dryer sheet stored in a damp-wipe-style plastic package do work descently well.

But, with basicly any HP dryer, softner smell does remain.
And except for a fine dust cought by the filter, our Bauknecht back home still dryers perfectly fine after several years of heavy use.

Reversing on a HP dryer technicly only wastes time on most loads.
No airflow, no drying. Even small decreases make a huge difference.

Some heatpumps would have to turn off during reversing.
And then some heatpumps can't immediatly restart, adding several minutes to the cycle and often self-defeating the reversing as that wait time takes away from the time until next reverse.
Our Bauknecht back home does blocks of reversing with the heatpump off, on the other hand ours here reverses with heatpump on, but only briefly every 10min.

Thus, even Miele has now added a specific bedding cycle for more reversing and - in typical Miele fashion - instead of blindly reversing, reversing periods get more and more common as drying progresses.

On the open refill TwinDos cartridges, Miele has been expanding its non-machine sector agressivly for years now.

Thus, they blocked out the selection for other detergents.
But me being somewhat doubtfull of the system I would assume the electronics do have the same setup ay previous and changing the country setting would unlock that feature.

But, not sure on that though, I think you could get at least one cartridge to work with a refillable one.
The machine offers the option to adjust the dosage depending on water hardness in ml.
What I don't know if those are set values OR if it is the same setting system with up to 300ml selectable.
If they are freely selectable, you could just exchange the main detergent cartridge with refillable one and the whites one with water or your own liquid oxy additive. (AFAIK both are dispensed ALWAYS, just the ratios are changed for colors).
 
@henene4

It is physically not possible to insert the refillable cartridge in the USA models. They will not fully insert. If you notice the newly designed TwinDos cartridges have indented plastic on the end that is inserted into the washer. This is to allow the cartridge to fully seat in USA machines. The refillable cartridges are a flat rectangle on the end that is inserted into the washer. The bottom of the bottle hits the bottom of the compartment before the cartridge is fully inserted, this preventing the refillable cartridge from being fully inserted on USA models.

In the settings the option Agent option for Slot 1 or 2 is Miele Detergent. When swapping an empty twindos bottle for a full one, the display will prompt "Different Agent?" when inserting a full bottle. If you select "Yes" the only option listed is Miele.

Like I said, the work around is refilling the factory bottles with a funnel from the hardware store. It works fine.

The only real downside is that fabric softener can not be dispensed properly. Phase 2 on USA machines will always be dispensed as part of the main wash where fabric softener would be dispensed in the final rinse. This is because phase 2 is always assumed to be Miele's Oxygen Bleach.

I am pretty certain that was done strictly due to their worry that people would be filling the Phase 2 bottle with Chlorine Bleach.
 
 
I would be highly surprised if they would make 2 entirely different designs of cartridge holder for that...
And no, if it was about chlorine bleach they would just pack a warning on there. We do have chlorine bleach as well over here, you know.
And forcing people towards their products is clearly resembled in the G7000 line said to belaunched in US sooner rather then oater.

And if the end is flat or not does not matter or should not matter.
There is a flat piece there, yes, but if only that contacts or all of the surface should not matter.

Were the old designs the same as the EU?

I mean, the new US design is only 100ml smaller, which would account for the cutout on top and the angles in the middle.
So size should be the same, and so should be connector.

Miele got burned once with exclusive designs for the US market, they will never put in a dime more then needed in the US...
 
Thank you all for a brilliant insight, especially Moon!

I only wish F&P would bring their 900W Heat Pump dryer to the US, and make it a 120V model. I'd go with them immediately.

All of the Miele features are exciting and a huge upgrade from my current machines, but the pettiness level they reached with a different TwinDos design... If people were to use those empty bottles and actually poured in chlorine bleach or similar inappropriate agents, it would void their warranty for sure - so no problems for Miele. Can't comprehend why would they go to such extent. Spoke with their rep on the phone and all he managed to say was that US models will not have refillable container and he didn't know why, then hung up.

Henene, I looked into one of the machines on display and they really did put in bumps to correspond with the American TwinDos bottle indentations. I'm thinking I could refill per above instructions, but it seems like an unnecessary override for marginal benefit; then the bottles are quite flimsy and will probably need replacement sooner than later. Miele doesn't disclose ingredients nor is willing to reveal their (or their suppliers') approach to animal testing, so not gonna work for me.

For the amount of money they ask, I'm starting to reconsider. Wondering if the T1 could be stacked somehow on a F&P washer..
 
There's the QuickIntense, which is an equivalent of the Vortex technology of F&P which reduces most cycle times. The main thing that attracted me to this set was a HP dryer, a nice upgrade from a vented GE Spacemaker. Ability to stack and reclaim some kitchen space was a bonus.

Looking more into the washers, TwinDos was an important part of my decision, but if using it with own detergents is made so inconvenient by the manufacturer just to, I suppose, lock people into buying Miele's products, then I'm re-thinking the whole concept. Other than those two features there's very little that attracts me to the machine vs a significantly cheaper F&P.

I'll be speaking with F&P if it's possible to install a different dryer on their washer; am pretty sure they'll be able to offer some solution, as their representatives literally go above and beyond from my interactions.
Side note, needed some info on their technology for a college research paper and was transferred from a person to a person, each more than helpful to provide me with plenty of info and e-mails, if I need to know anything else.

Won't even bother asking Miele of the same thing as their customer service is about as helpful as a glass hammer.
 

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