Miele Mechanical Timer Not Advancing

[kenmoreguy89]

If you wish I can mail you one I have and see if it does anyway even being fed with a different voltage-frequency.
As you can see it's a matter of unscrewing two screws take the motor out and put in another one. And reconnect.
It's an easy job.

 

[launderess]

Know from last time poked around inside Big Bertha the timer and perhaps electronic module have French wording.

However you can see, well you see the timer motor pictured above will accept 50hz or 60hz. Leaving aside what if anything governs change in speed that would come from 10% faster frequency, motor is clearly labeled 220v.

One knows for fact nothing in this washer runs on 220v; this though power requirements state 120v/220v. Aside from powering both legs of heater, the 220v does nothing else. Pump is 120v (had it swapped out and kept the old), and the muet (motor) can be wired to run on 220v, 120v, etc.... it is all the same motor.

Of course this washer has no transformer (why would it?), so don't believe a 220v timer motor will work, It it didn't mind what voltage was received it would state range such as 120v-220v....

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Also... It may be that it got humidity and got stuck. A light spray of wd 40 will free it.
Worst hypothesis is some of the gears inside the timer also got stuck, hopefully not broken...
First try would be detach the timer motor start the machine and see if the pin turns.
If it turns either you have gears stuck inside that timer or at worst broken but that is the worst possible (and unlikely) scenario.
This is a crouzet from a Zanussi machine.

 

[launderess]

"timer motor only and would have one in their stash.&#34

If only!

Miele hasn't sold a mechanical timer washer in North America since 1992 when production of w1065/w1070 ended. Everything afterwards (W19XX to now W1) are all totally electronically controlled.

Virtually all the old school Miele techs who started out back in 1980's or 1990's who were familiar with these machines from actual experience either have retired, or otherwise moved on. Asked Miele about the last tech who came out to do the suspension repair a few years ago, response was he left as well.

Techs hired since about 2000 or so are only trained on 19XX and above model washers. That information was given about ten years ago so they may not even know 19xx series either.

Ideally an old school tech would have parts wanted in his stash, but finding one would be like a needle in proverbial haystack.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Yeah.
I imagined that in the United States could be harder that's why I said in the Undertaker be different story but I thought there could be some old school techs still around.
Anyways...
Taking about the timer motor, I have seen that the one you posted states 50-60hz, but a certain accuracy I think it depends on models for example I think of my w427 and the fact that it only Tumbles 3-4 times before kicking into spin, if it went faster it would jump to spin sooner, but it is also true that machines such as yours are partially electronic and spin and tumble is controlled by the board, it would've been a problem like in a wholly mechanical one.
I know that it doesn't mention a double voltage but maybe that would not be a big problem for a tiny winding such the one of a timer.
Anyways the only thing to do now is to open up your machine look what your timer motor says on the back and possibly try it detached so that you're sure there is nothing wrong inside the timer.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

* in the United States could be different story.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Anyways again if nothing turns out or we have "happy revelations" about what your timer says I tell you again I have three and they are basically doing nothing inside my house nor will as I plan to move soon and not to grab any Miele's to repair so...I might anyway be more happy to know they went and passed away in a mission in the name of experiment and science rather than lying in the box and being tossed in the trash.
At worst I waist €8 for postage...

 

[launderess]

Right then!

Thank you Kenmoreguy89 for reaching out with your offers of assistance, and kind words of encouragement in general. Very much appreciated...

It's a muggy wet evening so with nothing else shaking popped open the Miele to have a peep.

There are two discs on back of programmer/timer, but don't know which is the motor

Left - Crouzet 82432043 213 2268 60hz

Right - Crouzet 82432035 2267 115v 60hz

Note these parts must be 115v or 120v, as one guessed upthread there isn't a converter in these machines, a 220v part would just fry itself to death.

Found parts diagram for W770 and it does appear as if these two timer "motors" or whatever they are called detach. This makes sense IMHO for a start because Miele was selling what were essentially 120v washing machines in North America. Far cheaper to slap on 120v 60hz timer motors than have entire timers made just for that power system.

This hopefully will give one more options; if can locate just timer motor bits that are 120v/60hz with proper connections a swap might just do trick.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

The two discs are the two motors your machine mounts...
The left one possibly is the one that failed.
As I suggested the first thing to try will be to detach them and start the machine being careful of course not to touch any of the contacts in the timer as they might be powered as you start the machine and look if they spin or not.
You just need to remove the clamp holding them place .
To research a new one the first thing I would do is to contact who made those.
I already tried to look up on the Crouzet website to see if with the parts numbers given something popped out, it did not but maybe trying contacting them via phone or mail will help locating what you need or something adaptable...


https://soda.crouzet.com/stock-check/

 

[henene4]

Just a guess

Your's - as far as I understand - only uses the electronics for motor tasks and such.

Dunno if your heater runs over the electronics but might not even be the case.

The 2 timer motors are again as far as I understand a normal "slow" timer motor that does normal advancing (that egg timer sound you are missing) and the rapid advance timer.

Since you describe that the fast clicking forward works, the rapid advance timer motor appears to work.

That egg-timer-noise you describe missing is the normal timer motor that times stuff like for how long to spin etc.

That is just my remote idea of what is going on.

 

[henene4]

On that note

Why not try to contact Crouzet directly?

They might have a replacement or at least know what to look for?
There at least still appears to be a component manufacturer under that name.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Exactly! My guess.
Rapid advance timer that works with impulses suposedly on the right works but normal clock timer motor on the left doesn't anymore, the tic tic tic clock sound is not there anymore as she describes.

So as I said I think the first thing to do will be to detach it and see if it works and turns, because if it does or both does and when you put it in does not that means timer inside got stuck somehow at worst broken.

Even though it is unlikely and it is a remote possibility is still is a possibility...and before contacting or putting efforts into trying to find a replacement motor I would do this test.

 

[launderess]

Thanks for suggestions and comments

Didn't want to mess about removing anything until have a clearer picture of what am dealing with overall. Digging into wiring and other bits of a perhaps nearly thirty year old washer where wiring hasn't been touched since things went in could be a minefield. Also since don't have a clue what am doing, just thought it best to keep "hands in pockets" for time being.

Yes, Crouzet is still around. At the time they supplied Miele, Thompson, Brandt and other European makers of washing machines, dryers, etc... with timers.

Their web cataloge still list synchronous motors from "82432" range as being on offer. But remember Crouzet was a supply vendor; they made these timers to supply Miele or whoever else to suit certain specs (cable length, connections, etc...).

https://motors.crouzet.com/customer-support/detailed-specifications-drawings/synchronous-motors/#

https://media.crouzet.com/datasheets/english/synchronous-motors-direct-drive-single-direction-syn

http://cdn.crouzet-motors.com/assets/library/Crouzet-Motors_Panorama_english.pdf

Crouzet like many other supply vendors likely never did nor does sell directly to consumers. But am going to reach out and see if they can supply information about where one might find anyone with supply. Though have a strong hunch they would simply say contact Miele (been there, done that), or another appliance part vendor.

Having spent hours combing various French, German and even Polish spares websites, parts for these 400 and 700 Miele washers are like finding a virgin at a prison rodeo.

https://webcache.googleusercontent....488159+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=opera

 

[askolover]

Same problem with my Asko....It will wash, rinse, spin, etc...but the timer won't advance.  Mine just sits there and tick tick tick tick tick ticks away.  Asko used to sell replacement timer motors separately but I can't find them anymore and didn't bother calling SubZero directly since I found a complete timer assembly on ebay...just haven't installed it yet.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Launderess, it is just a matter of unclipping the grey metallic clamp holding the timer motor to the timer, you will probably find a star pin-spline on the timer motor as it was typical on miele machines no matter what kind of timer mounted if AKO or Crouzet, I have always found the same kind of pin-spline
My W701 even though mounting an Ako timer still had the same spline.
Unfortunately I think that surfing European spare websites will bring you to nowhere because of the voltage used here and no country in Europe use that voltage, perhaps you might have some luck in Japan (good luck with Japanese) or Latin America spares websites.
You may be lucky contacting Crouzet, I also doubt they sell directly to customer but maybe they can address you to some vendors and I looked at the map and there are plenty in the United States.
Looks like the "82..." or whatever starting with those two numbers are indeed 120-volt timer motors, I don't think they specially made a kind of timer motor only for miele or that particular timer and or others but that was on their catalogues at best they only put the star shaped pin to the motor spline, thing that you can take off and put in the new motor you will get that could come with a simple little spline.
A clock repair shop eventually if not you personally might be able to change it without probs and or crazy costs

 

[launderess]

@askolover

You seem to have far better luck with your Asko than I've with mine. *LOL*

On another note seem to be right, Miele did have spare timer motors available, well at least for certain models.

This does me no good since it is 220v/240v an in Germany

https://www.ebay.de/p/1572865328

 

[combo52]

Timer Motor For A Miele Washer

Good discussion, As already stated the two different TMs advance the timer at two different speeds, the fast one for setting up cycles and the slower TM for normal progression though the cycles.

 

Either 50 Hz or 60 Hz timers motors should work fine, if you use a 50Hz timer motor on 60Hz a ten minute wash will just be shortened to 8 1/2 minutes [ you will get your laundry done faster ].

 

A 208-240 volt TM will work fine here with a very small step-up transformer, conversely a 120 volt TM will work just fine on 208-240 volts with just a resister wired in the TM supply line, many companies do this on clothes dryer TMs.

 

John L.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

In some timer motors you can typically only just change the winding and keep the rotor and its spline, rotor rarely fails, what usually blows out is the winding.

John US gas dryers in Europe and guess Australia or whater 220-240v place they will be exported to indeed use this system, speed Queen dryers have a toroidal transformer inside the panel that feeds timer motor, gas valves, igniter and heat and flame sensors.
Motors are 220v 50hz.
Whirlpool dryers instead have the transformer on the bottom between motor and burner, bad choiche IMHO as it gets covered in lint and might overheat even though they are usually oversized and way over what is usually required in order of watts. Very well made.
US washers timers are a different story
But I already thought ahead in case one of my machine's timers would fail
I will use a little step down by-passed for the motor.
I will get slightly longer cycles but I don't care...

 

[launderess]

Who knew such places still existed?

https://www.appliancetimers.com

 

[launderess]

"Unfortunately I think that surfing European spare websites will bring you to nowhere .."

Actually turned up a few Miele 120v/60hz parts in Europe from various spares suppliers. None of them what one needs and alas no timers, but never the less.... One place in France even had the huge double cast iron muet/motor (one side washes, other spins).

Suppose these people bought up job lots of Miele surplus or whatever, but I digress...

Playing around with Miele again today and watching cycle dial carefully can see and hear (know the sound) when it wants to move, but doesn't. Sometimes there is a slight movement, others it just sits.