Miele W1 WXR 860 WCS Frustrations

[aquacycle]

I had a Miele W562 for 10 years and it was a lovely machine. I couldn’t fault it at all. I upgraded to a W1 machine - a WCG120 XL.

BIG mistake.

It have very bizarre programming.

1. The express cycle with only 1 rinse was near useless. I don’t use it often but it’s a handy feature to have for freshening up a small load.

2. The cottons cycle was 2:44 for no fuzzy logic. If the machine sensed a smaller load, which it very rarely did, instead of adjusting the time properly like my old machine, it would default to the short option.

3. On cottons short, the rinsing was appalling. It would fill as the machine ramped down from spin but as soon as the water level was reached, it would pump out. The rinses lasted about 3 minutes. And it only did 2.

4. Minimum Iron was a much more reasonable cycle at 1:58 with 3 rinses BUT if the machine detected it had anything more than a full load in it, it would abort the cycle at the end of the main wash.

5. In the year and a half that I had it, I had Miele out to it 3 times. The first time because water was pooling on the door seal and running onto the floor when I opened the door, the second and third times were for excessive noise. See link below. It sounded like it was trying to vibrate its way into next door most of the time. And yes, the machine was level and the transit bolts were removed.

I sold both the washer and dryer and bought a Siemens set last April, which are both fabulous.

 

[rolls_rapide]

Reply #30, Siemens

Do they have a blue, or is it white, display?

Bosch machines are red digits - and nigh on impossible to read clearly with failing eyesight. I don't know why some manufacturers can't grasp that fact.

 

[ozzie908]

I have a Sharp MWO

Its impossible to read if the suns shining or the lights are on so either way its a guess what temp etc I am setting it to.

Preferred the Panasonics green/ish led's could see those in any light.

Am suffering the same as Rolls Rapide ageing eyesight is no joke.

Austin

 

[rolls_rapide]

Reply #32

Yes, green or blue, or even amber is fine. My current Slovenian Panasonic has large blue icons and digits. Very clear to see.

The previous Panasonic had a white backlit LCD screen, with black digits, if I remember rightly, and a ring of red LEDs around the programme dial. That implementation was fine too.

You'd think the manufacturers (Bosch) might conduct a 'usability test' before plonking the appliances on the market with small red displays. There must be a large number of irritated folk who have this problem - probably older folk who buy Bosch for supposed quality.

 

[aquacycle]

@rolls_rapide it’s a white display

 

[rolls_rapide]

"it’s a white display"

Thanks!

 

[hippo]

An independent Miele technician visited today for warranty service to investigate the non-functioning bleach dispenser. He rans tests on all the values and flow routes and reported them to all function perfectly. He agreed with my suspicion that the failure to dispense bleach was purely software related. He reported that he ran a firmware update on the machine but did not have time to run a cycle to test the bleach dispensing afterwards. I will try a cycle with bleaching activated tonight to see if it solves the problem.

Despite the very, very slow service from Miele's warranty department the technician was friendly, knowledgable, and helpful and I'd happily use the same company again for service.

 

[derrick352]

Still no fix for Prewash issue USA W1 WWF060, Miele will not even acknowledge the issue exists anymore. And you think they care about your bleach dispenser? Miele has serious issues and they do not care about any issues we are having with our W1's. When was this software update released? Can you verify the version changed? I would take anything they say with a grain of salt. I bet the tech didn't do anything other than lie to you and leave. My bet is he did NOTHING!

 

[hippo]

Bleach still does not dispense properly. The contents of compartment 2 are still in compartment 2 after the cycle when bleach dispensing is activated. I have so far tested Normal, Extra White, and Towels cycles.

I did notice during the Normal cycle that there was a sound of water dispensing at the correct time in the cycle (10 minutes before end of main wash block) but compartment 2 was not flushed as far as I could tell. I will test further and have also requested another warranty service visit to investigate further.

I cannot verify that a software update was indeed performed. I neglected to photograph the software version screen before the tech visit. If anybody has a non-updated WXR 860 and would like to share their software versions we can compare.

 

[mielerod69]

Bleach dispensing

Hi Hippo,
Shouldn't the bleach go in compartment 1 on the right-hand side not 2 on the left?

 

[hippo]

mielerod69, my apologies, I got the compartment numbering wrong in my last post. I have indeed been putting bleach in the (I) number one compartment as intended.

I do believe that I did in fact receive a software update. The machine no longer generates an annoying message prompting you to put detergent in both compartments when you manually select a prewash with TwinDos deactivated. It now only shows the prompt when a stains option adds a prewash automatically, which is useful. This stands out to me as a change since the message annoyed me so greatly when I initially received the machine.

 

[hippo]

Some updates:

Bleach injection now works. I believe the software update mostly fixed it. I say mostly because some behavior is confusing. The list of cycles in the manual for which bleaching is possible (Normal, Sanitize, Wrinkle-Free, Dress Shirts, Extra White, Table Linens / Drapes, and Baby Clothes) does not perfectly correspond to the cycles whose times are extended 10 minutes when bleaching is activated. Specifically the Towels cycle extends its time 10 minutes but as far as I can tell does not add bleach. Nonetheless I’ve successfully tested bleach dispensation now with Baby Clothes, Normal, and Extra White.

The software update has slightly reduced the number of annoying pop-up messages in the display. Specially there is no longer a reminder to add detergent to both compartments when manually selecting a prewash, now only when selecting a stain that automatically adds a prewash, which is useful.

One of the technicians repositioned the drain hose so that it doesn’t hang as far down the drain pipe. He said this would improve pumping and prevent backflow. The change has substantially helped prevent the machine from unnecessarily adding time to cycles. What I thought was a reluctance to spin seems to have been a pumping issues. The machine is still more sensitive to balance and tries to rebalance a little more often than my last Miele but it is much more tolerable.

I have not been able to test for the prewash water inlet error since I got the software update. While I use prewash very frequently, I almost never use it on the Normal cycle which was the only cycle with which I ever experienced that error before, and then only very rarely. I use prewash with Baby Clothes cycle multiple times a week and have never had the error on that cycle since I got the machine. I will report if I ever encounter the error again, hopefully it is also solved.

I still find some of the software design decision oddities disappointing, particularly the omission of EcoFeedback actual consumption, the lack of ability to use the drum light during a cycle, and the lack of ability to select Water Plus on the machine itself as opposed to in the app. However I am appreciating the extensive configurability of the cycles and stain options. The cleaning performance is excellent and I’ve gotten used to the longer cycle times for the most part. While the casual user could certainly just select the logical cycle and stain options and use this machine easily, there are so many possible permutations of the cycles that really understanding how it works and what all the options do is a remarkably involved pursuit. While I’d still like to own a Little Giant sooner or later I wouldn’t give up this machine for anything else.

The Baby Clothes cycle is an exceptional program that Miele seems to have flown under the radar. I really don’t know why they decided to call it Baby Clothes, but it is simply a far superior cottons cycle to Normal. It uses significantly more water in the main wash making it great for large loads and sweatpants and sweatshirts that absorb a lot and for heavily soiled items. The wash water level isn’t as high as Darks, but it is sufficient for the recirculation pump to always run successfully, even with a full load, which I have observed to not be the case on Normal and Wrinkle-Free (the latter of which I’ve stopped using entirely as I’ve never seen it wet a load even remotely sufficiently, not sure why). The main wash runs for a little less than an hour for a full load or about 40 minutes for a small or medium load. Although the manual says that it only conducts two rinses it actually conducts three, the first two with a very high water level. Given the high water level in the rinses and the high interstitial spin speed the Baby Clothes cycle provides exceptional rinsing performance. Using the extra rinse option adds another high level rinse for a total of four rinses if desired. I like this cycle so much I’ve started using it with the Gentle option for my mixed causal cottons and with stain options and prewash for dirty work clothes and it excels at both.

Two questions about TwinDos:

I just received a replacement Ultra Phase 1 which says “Now with an improved Formula” on the bottle and in the ingredients there is no mention of any enzymes. Miele’s webpage for Ultra Phase 1 implies that there are 7 enzymes in it. Does anybody know if Ultra Phase 1 is still formulated with enzymes?

The second tech who visited adjusted my TwinDos dosage for both 1 and 2 to half the recommended values stated in the manual. When I asked him about this he said that Miele issued new dosing recommendations due to complaints of excessive residue and sudsing. Although our water is very soft I’ve never experienced these issues with TwinDos. Has anybody been told that Miele has changed the dosage recommendations?

 

[brisnat81]

Miele did the same when they replaced my twin dos module, they halved both formulas as apparently the reccomended dose was way to high. I’ve had no issues with cleaning performance since.

 

[rolls_rapide]

Ultraphase 1 enzymes...

There are six:

Subtilisin ( protease),
Cellulase,
Amylase,
Lipase,
Pectate-Lyase,
Beta-Mannanase.

https://media.miele.com/downloads/91/e5/00_96106EC61D0B1EDAA2D7784797F191E5.pdf

 

[hippo]

Thank you very much for the response, Rolls_rapide.

However, that document doesn’t match the other ingredients listed on my new bottle. They seem to have substantially reformulated it and I wonder if it still has enzymes. Please see the photo of the bottle I’ve received.

 

[launderess]

"Not Suitable For Silk Or Wool"

On laundry product label often is a clear indication it contains enzymes. That or perhaps pH is so high (alkaline) would harm either fiber, but don't see anything out of ordinary in picture posted above.

It would be quite odd for Miele's Ultraphase detergent to go non-bio. Nearly all top shelf laundry detergents sold in USA and Europe at least all contain enzymes, often advanced cocktails of same to enhance performance. Indeed to get optimal results when laundering in warm to cool (or cold) water you need enzymes.

Am going to leave UK and that whole "non-bio" drama on sidelines for purposes of this discussion. *LOL*

 

[jerrod_six]

I have the previous version of the 860 washer and also use the baby clothes cycle in place of normal. I agree it is a truly good cycle and not just for baby clothes. I manually adjusted the Twin Dos dosing amount in the settings menu because the preset amount the machine comes configured with was just too high. I have modified the dosing a few times and have decided to use the least amount of product that will provide a good clean.

You mentioned getting more Ultraphase detergent. Did you buy the regular Ultraphase or the Ultraphase Elixir? The Elixir is supposed to suppress odors or and be good for poly-type garments. I don't have many of those for everyday use and am not interested in trying the Elixir.

 

[rolls_rapide]

I've had a look at all the EU data sheets, and I can only find a maximum of six enzymes in some of the detergents. The 'sensitive' and 'sports' have less than that.

I had a look at Miele USA and Miele Canada... and they seem to treat these consumers as not worthy of suitable product ingredient information.

I'm wondering whether the 'seven enzymes' formulation really exists at all. Perhaps some idiot in the marketing department goofed. It wouldn't surprise me in the least.

 

[launderess]

IIRC "Normal" cycle on washing machines sold in USA is often the last choice one should use. By federal regulations that is the default cycle with low energy use (ready puny water levels and so forth), and also by regulations cannot be altered much if at all.

Happily thanks to modern machines being wholly computer controlled offering a wealth of cycle options isn't an issue. There usually are several cycles other than "Normal/Cottons/Linens" that will do what is wanted.

 

[hippo]

@launderess,
I agree that it would be very strange for them to go non-enzymatic. I also agree that the Normal settings is not optimal for most functions. Unfortunately Miele is a little too prescriptive with many of the other cycles. For example, the Darks cycle features an excellent gentle but thorough main wash with high water and good rinsing, but it is limited to a 1200 RPM spin speed and a maximum load of 2kg making it quite suboptimal for a full load of sweatshirts for example. The greatest manifestation of this issue is a lack of cycles that clean relatively gently but with full loads and 1600 RPM spin. Miele seem to restrict 1600 RPM spin to only aggressive agitation cycles but, unless my understanding is wrong, except for very sensitive items a high speed spin will only wrinkle the clothes, not damage them. Excessive wash agitation with low water level, on the other hand, will cause damage and wear. Thus the Baby Clothes cycle with Gentle option is the best cycle I've found so far for thorough but relatively gentle cleaning that allows a 1600 RPM spin and full load.

@jerrod_six,
good to know that you also find a lot of use for the Baby Clothes cycle. I purchased the regular Ultra Phase 1 detergent, not the Elixir. I also don't have those particular needs.

I know that the correct dosing will depend on laundry habits and water hardness, but what dosages did you settle on?

Here we have very soft water and the manual recommends 46/36ml. The tech set it at 24/13 "per Miele recommendation." I've since increased it to 30/18 and am continuing to evaluate. There is now almost no scent left on the clothes whereas before it was heavy. I primarily use Twindos for mixed casual clothes (sweatshirts, t-shirts, etc) and bedding, I use other products for heavily soiled items, delicates, and towels.

@rolls_rapide
Miele in general treats US customers as an afterthought with fewer options and information as well as poor customer service and warranty compared to Europe, it is disappointing. I emailed them asking about the enzymes at the same time I posted the question to this thread and I have not heard back.