Miele W1918 Bearings

[GrahamW]

Does anyone have a guide on how to pull and replace the drum bearing on a Miele W1918? Also, where the best place to order the bearing and any needed seals online?

I've read various threads here that cite a problem with the design in the W1918 machines that leads to premature failure. Does anyone know if it specific to the W1918 or does it also occur with the W19xx series 5kg machines? Or, could it simply be related to the higher spin speed of the W1918, compared to say a W1903.

 

[GrahamW]

Video

I've uploaded a video that shows the issue with my washer.

 

[launderess]

Have you contacted Miele in Canada for part information?

Though an "older" unit the 19XX series isn't vintage enough for Miele to stopped offerng parts all together, though what they have in stock may be limited. Also once a model starts getting up there (like my 1070) Miele North America will cease inporting spare parts, thus leaving only whatever inventory is left. Once this is gone that is that. However being as this may, not sure if one can request Miele import a part not in stock, which they will do for current items.

IIRC someone here in the group or perhaps somewhere on the Internet posted how they changed the bearings on their Miele 1918. It is not a job for the faint hearted. For a start you will require a winch or some other way to get those heavy tubs out of the cabinet. IIRC, Miele does this sort of repair work here in the States, but only at their New Jersey workshop.

 

[GrahamW]

Miele Canada

I consider Miele Canada to be the part-source of last resort. I'll call for a price, but past experience suggests that ordering Miele parts from the EU is cheaper, even with int'l shipping. I've seen bearings for sale online (example in the link below) and was just wondering if anyone had experience with them.

As for removing the drum, I have more than enough tools, a hoist and a hydraulic press if needed

http://cgi.ebay.ca/MIELE-WASHING-MACHINE-BEARING-KIT-/200322103425

 

[3beltwesty]

One could have a broken ball bearing; or a broken spider too. If the spider is cracked or broken it can be just one of the 3 arms; if it has three. The looseness then will vary with the drum's position since often not all the arms are broken off yet.

A ball bearing failure can be like what happened with my 1976 front loader westinghouse. The front bearings cage broke and the bearing had its balls not separated apart anymore and thus the drum could be pulled a lot at the front in any direction perpendicular to the shaft.

Ball Bearing sizes have been standardized for over 70 years now. Seals are specfic to washing machines since a special lip design is used in washers.

With luck you only have a ball bearing failure. It is a 1/2 to day's work to replace them on a FL machine.

It is decent job and worth doing if one wants to learn too.

You may want to rip the beast apart before ordering bearings, in case there is a spider issue, or a cracked gizmo

 

[launderess]

Thing Is

Until the machine is opened and examined you don't know what you are dealing with.

Yes, it could be as "simple" as the bearings being gone, but what about the belt? Shaft? Pulley? Other parts?

Would be a shame to order say a bearing seal kit only to find out there is more going on in there. Then your options are to leave the machine in bits until you can source parts, or put it back together only to have to redo the entire thing again.

While your machine is out of warranty, Miele does over a limited warranty of a sort on parts and work done by their techs. If you do the job yourself with generic parts, all bets might off should something happen down the line.

As for ordering parts from the EU, while the 1918 is an "older" unit therefore someone might be looking to unload various things cheaply, not all things inside your machine are "old" design. If Miele is still using bearing, spiders, et al from that design in current units, you may or may not see a difference in price.

Another thing to consider is Miele North America prices it's parts at cost from when they were imported, not today's exhange rate. Maybe the Canadian dollar is doing better against the Euro than ours (USD), but then again consider you will be paying shipping and VAT on top. If you need larger parts such as say a spider shipping may be either costly nor not possible out of some countries. Getting anything "large" out of Germany for instance is next to impossible. If it won't fit in the largest sized parcel post box, most German sellers of anything won't even bother.

Regarding the link to seller of bearings:

For this to work you'll need the corresponding EU model to your W1918.

Before going off on a tear, rather than self diagnosing from the "outside" (and I say this as one who had dealt with a few "vintage" Miele washer problems), I'd either call out Miele service or "pop the bonnet" and see what is going on inside.

Used older Mieles and often even newer models do pop up on eBay and CL all the time. You might be able to find another 1918 for what it would cost in parts to repair the one you have.

Contact Miele tech support, and see if you can get one of the old heads, not a hot shot youngster. Someone familiar with your unit and start asking questions. Ask for a parts diagram showing the tubs and or drums/bearing areas. Miele used to email/fax such information free of charge, don't know if they still do.

Once you get the above, go over them to get a feel of how the unit is put together.

You might also seek out a Miele affliated service person. We have them here and they are former Miele techs whom have gone out on their own, and or free-lance repairmen who have been trained to work on Miele appliances.

 

[3beltwesty]

The Pulley & Belt looks OK; it is in Graham's video

Since the pulley and belt are clearly visible, these parts are not the issue at all.

One can unplug the washer and actually touch these parts if any doubt. The4 bonnet has already been "popped" since the video shows the pulley.

About the only things that can be wrong are the bearings, a cracked or broken spider, or the spider's bolts or welds to the basket are loose/broken. To see what is really wrong requires more than just popping the bonnet. It is more like having to take apart an engine or transmission in car.

To say what is wrong requires taking the basket out, a very massive job. Both a cracked spider or broken ball bearing will make the basket have massive "play".

Here in the USA having a tech come to one's house for a service call can be 60 to 100 bucks just to look at ones washer or dryer. To have one rip apart the machine to get the basket out would be another 100 to 200.

The real issue is do you want to pay a service guy 4 to 8 hours labor to fix this machine, plus parts cost. Most folks scrap the machine, since the cost is more than a new machine.

Doing it your self might just having you buying the 2 bearing and seal, and and gobs of time. ie the total fix can be less than 100 bucks if the spider is still ok. if the spider is bad you have to see if they sell just the spider; or the basket spider assembly too. In the usa some old sears machines have one the entire assembly and it might be 400 + bucks.

A cracked spider or loose one often will have a "looseness/play" that "maps" with the basket; since both are tied to each other. A broken bearing cage can have the play to be loose at all angles to the basket.

 

[3beltwesty]

crude diagram

Many belt driven FL washers are built like this crude diagram I just ginned up.

A typical failure mode is the SEAL in pink leaks and the front ball bearing goes first, or the spider in purple cracks or breaks.

About every FL washer ever made has two ball bearings and one seal.

 

[GrahamW]

Thanks for the advice everyone. Indeed, the pulley, belt, motor all look and feel fine (no play at all that I could feel coming from the pulley). The play is really in the drum as the 'knock' in the video tries to show. From the inside, the closer to the front of the drum you push the easier it is to knock the bearing. A Miele service call-out to my location is a minimum $150 + surcharge for being out of their 50 km range. Even then, it doesn't sound as though the techs will even attempt to remove the drum in the field. I will certainly attempt to get a parts diagram from them. However, I figure that since I'm capable of maintaining/repairing my German cars (VW/MB), I'm probably able to disassemble a German washer. As for repairing it, I'll do it if it makes sense and the shaft/spider are ok.

The spider assembly is actually a very heavy cast on these machines so I'm hopeful that these are not cracked. I'd expect a lot more play if they were, but we'll need to wait and see when it comes apart (hopefully this weekend).

What worries me a little are the comments Launderess made in Post# 439852 about the W1918 having a design problem with the bearing which leads to premature failure in a previous thread (see link). Does anyone have any additional info on this?

Miele washers that fail because of 1 broken component

The Triac on the motherboard, Known failure in older miele machines from the W7XX series, Anyway Here is what happend, I was driving to the local supermarket, When i was on my bikecycle there, I drived beheind a appliance store, Then i drived the corner around, What i see, 5 miele w7xx series...

www.automaticwasher.org

 

[3beltwesty]

When a "bearing goes and physically has a mechanical breakage" it typically is not both; ie have the balls of cages fall out at the same time.

Thus a typical FL washer often has its front Bearing go (since closest to the seal that leaked) ; but the rear still works but is noisy and corroded, but it still works as a ball bearing. My 1976 FL failed like this.

Now if one can visualize that now the point of rotation when moving the basket up and down is the still intact rear bearing. ie when only a rear bearing is broken the rear belted pulley will have more up and down play then if the front bearing was broken.

Thus if a friend hoss'es the basket up and down vertically; watch the movement of the pulley. A rear bearing being close to the pulley would have the pulley with a lot of play. You might have the roll/remove the belt to measure/sense the play better.

 

[3beltwesty]

pulley movement with both types of bearing failures

Hope this makes it clear

 

[3beltwesty]

instant center

If one grabs the basket and moves it up and down; the point it rotates in space is the good remaining bearing.

 

[GrahamW]

Miele Canada and parts

Thanks 3beltwesty. Miele Canada came through with some diagrams and part numbers. One of the nice things about Miele is that I've always found them pleasant and easy to deal with. If they can help, they will. There are two drum bearing kits listed under separate part #s in addition to the separate items. The 1st is the grouping of items 2-10 which includes the spider and the 2nd is items 3-10 without it. I won't know which I need
until it is disassembled.

 

[3beltwesty]

Nice diagram

Part #2 must be the bearing housing that holds the OD of the ball bearings.

Is this part towards the rear of the unit; ie behind the tub #1?

ie can you touch this piece reaching through or above the pulley's spokes? (unplugged of course). I think part #2 is held in place by those gold cap screws in that youtube screen capture image I posted already.

 

[limey]

Spiders and Bearings

Whilst I have not dismantled a Miele machine from what I understand the ‘spider’, item # 2 from the above diagram, is a heavy cast iron or steel ‘spider’ fitted to the back of the outer drum to stiffen it. It holds the bearings and seal items 3, 4, 6 and 7 from the subject diagram, with perhaps, items 5 and 9 are also included in the required ‘kit’.
The spider which is the subject of so much discussion regarding corrosion is not shown in this diagram but a photograph is available at the thread: -
http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?30834_20
The inner tub is shown as item 11.
Good Luck and please let us know how you get on.

 

[eddy1210]

<span style="font-size: small; font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;">I have a Miele tech friend here in Vancouver, and there's nothing different or "flawed" about the bearings in the 1918 as opposed to the other models.  I too have a W1918.  The factors involved are the 1600 rpm spin, which customers use all the time for cottons, and the fact that the 1918 has no OOB control, other than a tach on the motor that reduces the spin speed if it's overly unbalanced.  I have scratches and scars on my window glass to prove it!  So, it seems to be a combinations of factors that lead to premature bearing wear.</span>

 

[GrahamW]

Almost out

Thanks limey and eddy1210 for your insight. Working at an easy pace, it took about an hour this evening to disassemble everything in preparation for removing the drum. Right now, the drum is free and resting on the shipping bars. Assuming my daughter isn't too fussy in the morning, I should be able to hoist it out and get a puller on the bearing first thing tomorrow.

 

[limey]

Fitting bearings

I have said it before but I believe it will not go amiss here.
When fitting new bearings only apply force to the race which has to be forced into its housing (outer race) or onto a shaft (inner race). Pressing or tapping the 'other' race, or even worse the cage, could, and likely will damage both of the races and some of the balls by 'bruising' which will lead to premature bearing failure.
Should I be trying to 'teach my grandmother to suck eggs' I apologise but I do not think this point can be emphasised enough.

 

[limey]

Bearing failures and causes

Graham,
I have forwarded a booklet put out by SKF on the above subject to your email.
Regards