Miele W1918 Bearings
- Thread starter GrahamW
- Start date
Here's the other side of the spider/shaft. Again, you can see the bottom of the shaft (note, there is no discolouration. It is just the reflection of the rust patches) along with the ring of corrosion just below where the inner drum bearing was.
vacfanatic
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Wow
I would have to say the condition of the spider for the age of the washer is nothing short of remarkable. Even the couple of rust spots are clearly only surface deep, and I doubt impact the structural design in any way.
How old is this washer, and how many loads does it see in an average week?
Also, can you tell us what cleaner (CLR, Lime Away, etc) you used to remove the white caked on buildup on the back of the drum and on the spider?
I'm doing a maintenance wash in my Miele as I speak - this makes me feel much better about seeing a Generation 2000 chassis having the solid spider as I suspected. Here is a photo of a crumbling spider after only about 5 years of use on a non-Miele ;-)
Andrew
I would have to say the condition of the spider for the age of the washer is nothing short of remarkable. Even the couple of rust spots are clearly only surface deep, and I doubt impact the structural design in any way.
How old is this washer, and how many loads does it see in an average week?
Also, can you tell us what cleaner (CLR, Lime Away, etc) you used to remove the white caked on buildup on the back of the drum and on the spider?
I'm doing a maintenance wash in my Miele as I speak - this makes me feel much better about seeing a Generation 2000 chassis having the solid spider as I suspected. Here is a photo of a crumbling spider after only about 5 years of use on a non-Miele ;-)
Andrew
3beltwesty
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Graham;
Thanks for the images!
***My old shaft's wear in it's brass seal surface looked machined too; machined by the water seals lips!
ie the wear machined a goove exactly where the seals lip is!
Thus that is why limey and me here and others saw those groove and assumed they are wear features. If the groove lines up with the; think possible seal wear too.
The Miele W1918 is a 24" frame machine; thus that drum must me about 19 to 20" in diameter? The 1976 westy 27" frame drum is 22" diameter. that must be a 24" sink?
Your spider looks in decent shape. To survive corrosion items should be thick.
Please post some images of the spider when it is all cleaned up; I think all of us with hokey new disposable spiders want to look at the Miele!
I wonder what metal it is made of; and it cast, forged or machined out of bar stick via cnc mill.
The drum from my 1976 westy had scum like stuff that was like bathtub ring crud that came off with slight acid based tub cleaner!
I wonder if the spider is isolated from the drum too. Ie can you "ohm it out" with an ohmmeter to educate us too!
Thanks for the images!
***My old shaft's wear in it's brass seal surface looked machined too; machined by the water seals lips!
ie the wear machined a goove exactly where the seals lip is!
Thus that is why limey and me here and others saw those groove and assumed they are wear features. If the groove lines up with the; think possible seal wear too.
The Miele W1918 is a 24" frame machine; thus that drum must me about 19 to 20" in diameter? The 1976 westy 27" frame drum is 22" diameter. that must be a 24" sink?
Your spider looks in decent shape. To survive corrosion items should be thick.
Please post some images of the spider when it is all cleaned up; I think all of us with hokey new disposable spiders want to look at the Miele!
I wonder what metal it is made of; and it cast, forged or machined out of bar stick via cnc mill.
The drum from my 1976 westy had scum like stuff that was like bathtub ring crud that came off with slight acid based tub cleaner!
I wonder if the spider is isolated from the drum too. Ie can you "ohm it out" with an ohmmeter to educate us too!
A final photo, showing the stamp on the cast spider.
I would very much appreciate input from everyone as to whether the machine is worth rebuilding and whether it would be reliable as a primary machine afterwards.
I originally purchased the W1918 (knowing something had failed) for $50 with the intention of swapping the leaking door seal and electronics (delay/count-down timer) into my perfectly functional W1903. Along the way, I figured I may as well figure out exactly what was wrong with the W1918 and decide if it is worth fixing (I would then use the W1903 as a 'functioning' parts spare). I may pull the top off my W1903 and inspect the rear of the drum with a mirror/light to see if there is a similar rust/grease stain before deciding what to do next. The W1903 certainly has no bearing play/noise compared with what I felt on the W1918.
As for whether this is a cost-effective repair for an out-of-warranty Miele machine. A 10hr budget seems like a pretty reasonable estimate given what I've encountered. I agree this isn't the sort of repair that a tech is going to do in a house call.
I would very much appreciate input from everyone as to whether the machine is worth rebuilding and whether it would be reliable as a primary machine afterwards.
I originally purchased the W1918 (knowing something had failed) for $50 with the intention of swapping the leaking door seal and electronics (delay/count-down timer) into my perfectly functional W1903. Along the way, I figured I may as well figure out exactly what was wrong with the W1918 and decide if it is worth fixing (I would then use the W1903 as a 'functioning' parts spare). I may pull the top off my W1903 and inspect the rear of the drum with a mirror/light to see if there is a similar rust/grease stain before deciding what to do next. The W1903 certainly has no bearing play/noise compared with what I felt on the W1918.
As for whether this is a cost-effective repair for an out-of-warranty Miele machine. A 10hr budget seems like a pretty reasonable estimate given what I've encountered. I agree this isn't the sort of repair that a tech is going to do in a house call.
3beltwesty
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Spider looks great
The Miele spider is better than that space age thin spider; better since it is thick and dumb.
That is why cannon balls and cannons last in the ocean since 1500 and aluminum foil lasts days here in salt water.
The whole concept of the space age cad designed spider with thin webs actually has gobs of surface area and little thickness; a great combo for a thing to die due to corrosion. It is a great design for something to dissolve quickly; ie maker the product fail.
None of his is rocket science; it was understood a few thousand years ago. This that are big in cross section last longer, whether a nail or a fence post 4000 years ago.
Just the shaft alone was been about 155 bucks for eons for my 1976 westy; recently I got one for only 40 bucks.
I bet the Miele spider/shaft assembly is at least 250 bucks or more
Is the spider steel or aluminum?
Steel weighs about 0.28 lbs per cubic inch; alumimum about 0.1 ish.
The Miele spider is better than that space age thin spider; better since it is thick and dumb.
That is why cannon balls and cannons last in the ocean since 1500 and aluminum foil lasts days here in salt water.
The whole concept of the space age cad designed spider with thin webs actually has gobs of surface area and little thickness; a great combo for a thing to die due to corrosion. It is a great design for something to dissolve quickly; ie maker the product fail.
None of his is rocket science; it was understood a few thousand years ago. This that are big in cross section last longer, whether a nail or a fence post 4000 years ago.
Just the shaft alone was been about 155 bucks for eons for my 1976 westy; recently I got one for only 40 bucks.
I bet the Miele spider/shaft assembly is at least 250 bucks or more
Is the spider steel or aluminum?
Steel weighs about 0.28 lbs per cubic inch; alumimum about 0.1 ish.
I was told by the fellow who sold it, that the machine was used more-or-less daily for a family of 5 and I believe he said it was 8 or 9 years old. I doubt it ever saw a citric-acid wash cycle.
As for the cleaner, I started with plain white vinegar when the spider was still attached to the drum and switched to diluted CLR on the spider. Anything more acidic than vinegar will make a mess of cheaper stainless in my experience. I followed with a dilute ammonia wash.
The scaling, was most certinaly lime with whatever detergent salts wanted to linger. Lake Ontario water is considered 'moderate' in terms of water hardness and city water averages at 120 milligram/litre or 8.4 grains/imperial gallon.
The sink is a 21" wide. The inner drum is 19 1/2" in diameter. The outer drum is 22" (top-bottom) and 21" (wide). The W1918/W1903 are the Miele 5kg series, and have a frame width of about 23 1/2".
As for the cleaner, I started with plain white vinegar when the spider was still attached to the drum and switched to diluted CLR on the spider. Anything more acidic than vinegar will make a mess of cheaper stainless in my experience. I followed with a dilute ammonia wash.
The scaling, was most certinaly lime with whatever detergent salts wanted to linger. Lake Ontario water is considered 'moderate' in terms of water hardness and city water averages at 120 milligram/litre or 8.4 grains/imperial gallon.
The sink is a 21" wide. The inner drum is 19 1/2" in diameter. The outer drum is 22" (top-bottom) and 21" (wide). The W1918/W1903 are the Miele 5kg series, and have a frame width of about 23 1/2".
"Is the spider steel or aluminum?"
It's pretty heavy and definitely cast. It's also magnetic which, with the rust indicates, at least some ferrous material. As for whether it is
I don't even want to guess what a shaft/spider would cost from Miele.
"I wonder if the spider is isolated from the drum too. Ie can you "ohm it out" with an ohmmeter to educate us too!"
I cannot imagine it could be as it the stainless inner drum is bolted directly to the cast spider. There does appear to be a grounding wire, bolted to the drum weights (# 19/20 in the diagram).
It's pretty heavy and definitely cast. It's also magnetic which, with the rust indicates, at least some ferrous material. As for whether it is
I don't even want to guess what a shaft/spider would cost from Miele.
"I wonder if the spider is isolated from the drum too. Ie can you "ohm it out" with an ohmmeter to educate us too!"
I cannot imagine it could be as it the stainless inner drum is bolted directly to the cast spider. There does appear to be a grounding wire, bolted to the drum weights (# 19/20 in the diagram).
cfz2882
Well-known member
nice spider!-no corrosion problems there,almost looks like forged steel the
way the shaft is welded on.Could be "cast"steel also.Looks like the seal
sleeve is replacable too,real quality.
way the shaft is welded on.Could be "cast"steel also.Looks like the seal
sleeve is replacable too,real quality.
Spider Defects?
Now I am doing an awful lot of guessing here.
1. The seal landing looks like stainless steel. If it were mild steel like the shaft it would have corroded where it is in contact with the water.
2. I agree with 3beltwesty the grooves in the landing sleeve are likely made by the lips of the seal. Looks like a 3 lip seal.
3. The black ‘rubber’ plug on the back of the spider is likely fitted to keep water from the end of the steel shaft. Looking at the distortion of this plug and the rust stains coming from its periphery I would guess that water has got behind the plug and the end of the mild steel shaft is corroded with the build up of corrosion products causing the distortion of the plug.
3a How did the water get behind the plug? Leakage by the plug is possible but I think it is more likely that there has been some leakage down the shaft after the seal failed and allowed water into the bearing housing.
3b The other possibility is that what ever seals the flange of the seal landing to the spider has failed and allowed water to seep in between the seal landing and the shaft. I do not think this has happened because there are no ‘rust stains’ on the spider coming from the periphery of the flange of the landing sleeve.
4. Looking closely at the photograph in post 498070 I agree with 3beltwesty, those look like cracks to me. This is further emphasised by the rust streaks emanating from them. To me this means that those fractures extend all the way to the ‘chamber’ behind the ‘rubber’ plug. Additionally look at the very fine lines running from the ends of the ‘wider black line’ these look like, and I emphasise ‘look like’ hairline cracks to me. An easy way to check is a dye penetrant check. A local workshop/machine shop should be able to help out there.
5. I am puzzled by Graham’s statement that the spider is magnetic. I cannot help wondering where on the spider he made that test
Now I am doing an awful lot of guessing here.
1. The seal landing looks like stainless steel. If it were mild steel like the shaft it would have corroded where it is in contact with the water.
2. I agree with 3beltwesty the grooves in the landing sleeve are likely made by the lips of the seal. Looks like a 3 lip seal.
3. The black ‘rubber’ plug on the back of the spider is likely fitted to keep water from the end of the steel shaft. Looking at the distortion of this plug and the rust stains coming from its periphery I would guess that water has got behind the plug and the end of the mild steel shaft is corroded with the build up of corrosion products causing the distortion of the plug.
3a How did the water get behind the plug? Leakage by the plug is possible but I think it is more likely that there has been some leakage down the shaft after the seal failed and allowed water into the bearing housing.
3b The other possibility is that what ever seals the flange of the seal landing to the spider has failed and allowed water to seep in between the seal landing and the shaft. I do not think this has happened because there are no ‘rust stains’ on the spider coming from the periphery of the flange of the landing sleeve.
4. Looking closely at the photograph in post 498070 I agree with 3beltwesty, those look like cracks to me. This is further emphasised by the rust streaks emanating from them. To me this means that those fractures extend all the way to the ‘chamber’ behind the ‘rubber’ plug. Additionally look at the very fine lines running from the ends of the ‘wider black line’ these look like, and I emphasise ‘look like’ hairline cracks to me. An easy way to check is a dye penetrant check. A local workshop/machine shop should be able to help out there.
5. I am puzzled by Graham’s statement that the spider is magnetic. I cannot help wondering where on the spider he made that test
3beltwesty
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By magnetic I think Graham means the Y shaped spider is iron based ferric; ie a cast steel or forging so a magnetic will stick to it.
With my 1976 Westy stamped and welded steel drum the steel shaft is screwed in the steel drum and has a left hand thread. The shaft has a 45 degree chamfer right by the brass seal surface; and there is a rubber 0-ring to prevent the threads from rusting. In the pre say 1988? westy's the drum only revolves one direction; thus a simple left hand thread works. In the roughly 1988 to 1993? models there is a torquer motor and one belt; the drum rotates CCW and CW via a controller and thus the shaft is now tacked in place. ie it is now part of the drum and not field replaceable.
On your Miele, does it only rotate one direction; or does it flop both CCW and CW? That shaft might be with screw threads and screwed in place like the 1940 to 1988 westys; or it might tack welded too after being screwed in if both CCW and CW rotations are used. OR it might be splined and pressed in too.
That black goop probably hides the end of the shaft is my guess too.
The sealing surface to me looks like a stainless steel cylinder that is heated and dropped in place.
Small cracks can be polished out to halt the progression of the crack. Sometimes a crack can be a fooler; ie one has the surface crack going to China through the entire part. As already mentioned an engine rebuild shop can magnaflux the part to see where and if there are cracks. Since it is an oddball job and no risk to them you cost might be little.
Old school had one welding up cracks on car engine heads, adding plugs; drilling holes to halt cracks too. A TIG welder add radically less heating than a Stick or arc or wire welder. The danger is the Y spider should not be fixed by a hot weld job; and ruined with drunk runout of the shaft no longer being perpendicular. Often is is better to just use the old part with cracks if minor.
With my 1976 Westy stamped and welded steel drum the steel shaft is screwed in the steel drum and has a left hand thread. The shaft has a 45 degree chamfer right by the brass seal surface; and there is a rubber 0-ring to prevent the threads from rusting. In the pre say 1988? westy's the drum only revolves one direction; thus a simple left hand thread works. In the roughly 1988 to 1993? models there is a torquer motor and one belt; the drum rotates CCW and CW via a controller and thus the shaft is now tacked in place. ie it is now part of the drum and not field replaceable.
On your Miele, does it only rotate one direction; or does it flop both CCW and CW? That shaft might be with screw threads and screwed in place like the 1940 to 1988 westys; or it might tack welded too after being screwed in if both CCW and CW rotations are used. OR it might be splined and pressed in too.
That black goop probably hides the end of the shaft is my guess too.
The sealing surface to me looks like a stainless steel cylinder that is heated and dropped in place.
Small cracks can be polished out to halt the progression of the crack. Sometimes a crack can be a fooler; ie one has the surface crack going to China through the entire part. As already mentioned an engine rebuild shop can magnaflux the part to see where and if there are cracks. Since it is an oddball job and no risk to them you cost might be little.
Old school had one welding up cracks on car engine heads, adding plugs; drilling holes to halt cracks too. A TIG welder add radically less heating than a Stick or arc or wire welder. The danger is the Y spider should not be fixed by a hot weld job; and ruined with drunk runout of the shaft no longer being perpendicular. Often is is better to just use the old part with cracks if minor.
If you look carefully, you can see that the cast surface appears very uniform (bead blasted?) except where pitted. The rust stains are located around each pitted area. For example, the photo below shows a pit mark near the middle of one arm. If you look at the photo in post, 498070 you can see two pitted areas at the centre of each rust patch. One on the arm, the other between the arms.
As for "where" the spider is magnetic, it is magnetic everywhere... from the tip of the Y to the centre.
It is actually a black plastic cover on the back of the spider which covers a solid mass of grey goop inside. There is no evidence of rust leaking from within the grey goop. Yes, it seems to cover the shaft end.
I'd like to hear from eddy1210's friend, the Miele tech. if it is at all possible.
As for "where" the spider is magnetic, it is magnetic everywhere... from the tip of the Y to the centre.
It is actually a black plastic cover on the back of the spider which covers a solid mass of grey goop inside. There is no evidence of rust leaking from within the grey goop. Yes, it seems to cover the shaft end.
I'd like to hear from eddy1210's friend, the Miele tech. if it is at all possible.
Not sure a dye test will do much good given the surface characteristics and difference between the smooth and rough/pitted cast. My experience with such tests is very mixed even with clean and very uniform casts.
I've attempted to annotate two photos to show the pitted areas. I may take a dremel with a small grinding wheel into the joint where the molten metal and pitted surface meet.
The questions that remain:
1) would anyone here re-use this spider given what the photos show?
2) Would you expect it to give another 5-10 years of service?
3) Do I need to worry about those grooves in the seal landing?
I've attempted to annotate two photos to show the pitted areas. I may take a dremel with a small grinding wheel into the joint where the molten metal and pitted surface meet.
The questions that remain:
1) would anyone here re-use this spider given what the photos show?
2) Would you expect it to give another 5-10 years of service?
3) Do I need to worry about those grooves in the seal landing?
Spider Defects
OK Graham.
Thanks for the clarification above.
From what you say, and looking at the photograph in post 498192 it now seems that the spider is steel (cast or forged) [cast iron would be a real female dog to weld] and that it has been coated (galvanised) by the look of it. It also explains the rust streaks coming from the cracks. I am more convinced than ever now that they are cracks.
My theory about water getting behind the plug is now nullified.
My opinion now is that the spider is ‘toast’, trying to gouge out and weld up those fractures will likely ruin the alignment of the shaft to the spider and then the cost of recoating?
It appears that the spider is made up of four steel parts (cast or forged) welded together, 3 arms and a hub. I am not sure if the shaft, also of steel, is welded or shrunk into the hub at this stage, or even as 3beltwesty suggests, splined and then welded. I would be surprised if it were screwed and welded but at this stage it cannot be ruled out either.
As for Graham’s questions in post 498201
1. I would not reuse the spider.
2. I would not expect to get another 5 years from the spider. Added to which you will soon, in my opinion, start to get rust marks on your laundry, particularly the lighter items.
3. I think you do need to be concerned about the grooves in the seal landing. Assuming that the landing was initially flat (machining grooves like that and maintaining the tolerances for fit up so that the lips of the seal fitted exactly into those grooves would add, very significantly, to the cost of the machine [to no useful purpose in my view]) it would mean that a standard size seal would have less pressure on the lips to produce a seal than it was originally designed to exert.
OK Graham.
Thanks for the clarification above.
From what you say, and looking at the photograph in post 498192 it now seems that the spider is steel (cast or forged) [cast iron would be a real female dog to weld] and that it has been coated (galvanised) by the look of it. It also explains the rust streaks coming from the cracks. I am more convinced than ever now that they are cracks.
My theory about water getting behind the plug is now nullified.
My opinion now is that the spider is ‘toast’, trying to gouge out and weld up those fractures will likely ruin the alignment of the shaft to the spider and then the cost of recoating?
It appears that the spider is made up of four steel parts (cast or forged) welded together, 3 arms and a hub. I am not sure if the shaft, also of steel, is welded or shrunk into the hub at this stage, or even as 3beltwesty suggests, splined and then welded. I would be surprised if it were screwed and welded but at this stage it cannot be ruled out either.
As for Graham’s questions in post 498201
1. I would not reuse the spider.
2. I would not expect to get another 5 years from the spider. Added to which you will soon, in my opinion, start to get rust marks on your laundry, particularly the lighter items.
3. I think you do need to be concerned about the grooves in the seal landing. Assuming that the landing was initially flat (machining grooves like that and maintaining the tolerances for fit up so that the lips of the seal fitted exactly into those grooves would add, very significantly, to the cost of the machine [to no useful purpose in my view]) it would mean that a standard size seal would have less pressure on the lips to produce a seal than it was originally designed to exert.
It might be worth noting that there's a youtube video showing the bearing change on a similar vintage machine and if you look carefully, you can see similar groves, low on the shaft (skip to 2:20 on the 1st video if you are short on time). I do wonder what that spider looks like and whether it is still in working order.
First part:
Second part:
First part:
Second part:
launderess
Well-known member
"Aunt Bea, Call Da Man" *LOL*
As Andy Griffth would say.
Contact Miele tech support and explain what you've done so far and explain (or if they will allow send pictures), of what the spider and or other parts look like.
You need to find out from those whom know best what something should or should not look like. As with top loaders here, there is normally a reason parts come as a "set",and it takes some experience to know what old parts can stay or go.
FWIW, one can find Miele spiders off the shelf (as I've said often about other such parts), in the UK and EU. However at $235 British Pounds,(roughly 402 USD)cannot imagine what Miele USA will charge, that is if they will even sell you the part. Given it's size, shape and weight, shipping is going to be dear as well.
Another option, depending upon your language skills of course, is to post a query on one of the Yahoo or other "appliance" or "washer" groups in Germany or other parts of western Europe. You will probably find a few persons with experience in these matters,including perhaps former Miele employees and or trained servicemen.
Unlike North America where Miele has tight control over almost every aspect of sales, parts and service, on the other side of the pond things are different.
As Andy Griffth would say.
Contact Miele tech support and explain what you've done so far and explain (or if they will allow send pictures), of what the spider and or other parts look like.
You need to find out from those whom know best what something should or should not look like. As with top loaders here, there is normally a reason parts come as a "set",and it takes some experience to know what old parts can stay or go.
FWIW, one can find Miele spiders off the shelf (as I've said often about other such parts), in the UK and EU. However at $235 British Pounds,(roughly 402 USD)cannot imagine what Miele USA will charge, that is if they will even sell you the part. Given it's size, shape and weight, shipping is going to be dear as well.
Another option, depending upon your language skills of course, is to post a query on one of the Yahoo or other "appliance" or "washer" groups in Germany or other parts of western Europe. You will probably find a few persons with experience in these matters,including perhaps former Miele employees and or trained servicemen.
Unlike North America where Miele has tight control over almost every aspect of sales, parts and service, on the other side of the pond things are different.
cfz2882
Well-known member
spider looks to be in very good condition from what i can see-i'd replace
the seal sleeve and run it-looks like a real quality machine well worth the
repair effort.
the seal sleeve and run it-looks like a real quality machine well worth the
repair effort.
I received an e-mail asking why I thought the spider was welded together and asking what the texture/color of the underlying material was. I hope this one photo answers both questions.
Between these two spider arms, it almost looks like a touch-up weld or a start/end point with an accumulation of material which isn't quite adhered to the previous bead. Despite the appearance of rust, even a metal blob like the one in pink (with rust all around it) seems well adhered.
Between these two spider arms, it almost looks like a touch-up weld or a start/end point with an accumulation of material which isn't quite adhered to the previous bead. Despite the appearance of rust, even a metal blob like the one in pink (with rust all around it) seems well adhered.
3beltwesty
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- Nov 29, 2010
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More than one half of repair folks would reuse that old spider; but state the life might be less than expected.
They too would actually quote on the replacement cost of the new spider too; so you as a customer are in the decision loop. Ie do you want to pay say 400 ? bucks more for a new spider?
Jets are placed back in service all the time with cracks; the issue is one replaces before safety is an issue.
They too would actually quote on the replacement cost of the new spider too; so you as a customer are in the decision loop. Ie do you want to pay say 400 ? bucks more for a new spider?
Jets are placed back in service all the time with cracks; the issue is one replaces before safety is an issue.
launderess
Well-known member
Maybe. OTHO Maybe Not.
Bearing replacement on front loading washers on the other side of the pond are jobs some repair persons love, others hate.
There is a reason why so many parts for this sort of job are available DIY, just the same as seal replacement kits for top loaders here; for the amount of work involved versus price it often does not pay for a service call.
Even under warranty (usually the only way most will bother), a repair is alloted a certain amount of time. This can be divided into sessions, say "X" to diagnose, "X" to strip down, "X" to replace/repair, and finally "X" to put everything back together...
Washer makers or whomever is paying for the warranty call, will allot an experienced service person (and his helpers if required) usually only one to two hours for "bearing replacement". If upon getting the washer apart things are more than what was supposed (bent spindle, spider, etc), then things will get interesting.
Even if the bearings have gone, and or were causing the original complaint, if other problems are found that if not addressed would simply wear out the replacment parts again quite soon, a choice has to be made. Either pay for the additonal parts and or labour, or scrap the whole idea and buy new.
If one is paying for the service call out of pocket, it probably will run >500 USD excluding parts. With the entire job coming near either the cost of a "decent" new washer or darn close to a hefty down payment. Unlike the United States, front loaders of "average" quality do not cost an arm and leg in the UK/EU. This is why bearing replacments are most always DIY, warranty service calls. For the average person it simply does not pay.
Miele washers in particular are problem due to the rather properitary nature of the company. Unlike other brands where one part may work for several machines, Miele parts are only for their machines. Nor is the company terribly liberal with advice and such.
If the spider needs to go (and am not saying the one pictured above does not does not), and it simply is put back into service, what happens several months or a few years later? If the thing goes and or damages the new bearing/seals you are looking at another expensive service call.
Bearing replacement on front loading washers on the other side of the pond are jobs some repair persons love, others hate.
There is a reason why so many parts for this sort of job are available DIY, just the same as seal replacement kits for top loaders here; for the amount of work involved versus price it often does not pay for a service call.
Even under warranty (usually the only way most will bother), a repair is alloted a certain amount of time. This can be divided into sessions, say "X" to diagnose, "X" to strip down, "X" to replace/repair, and finally "X" to put everything back together...
Washer makers or whomever is paying for the warranty call, will allot an experienced service person (and his helpers if required) usually only one to two hours for "bearing replacement". If upon getting the washer apart things are more than what was supposed (bent spindle, spider, etc), then things will get interesting.
Even if the bearings have gone, and or were causing the original complaint, if other problems are found that if not addressed would simply wear out the replacment parts again quite soon, a choice has to be made. Either pay for the additonal parts and or labour, or scrap the whole idea and buy new.
If one is paying for the service call out of pocket, it probably will run >500 USD excluding parts. With the entire job coming near either the cost of a "decent" new washer or darn close to a hefty down payment. Unlike the United States, front loaders of "average" quality do not cost an arm and leg in the UK/EU. This is why bearing replacments are most always DIY, warranty service calls. For the average person it simply does not pay.
Miele washers in particular are problem due to the rather properitary nature of the company. Unlike other brands where one part may work for several machines, Miele parts are only for their machines. Nor is the company terribly liberal with advice and such.
If the spider needs to go (and am not saying the one pictured above does not does not), and it simply is put back into service, what happens several months or a few years later? If the thing goes and or damages the new bearing/seals you are looking at another expensive service call.
3beltwesty
Well-known member
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Re Prices
RE
"Unlike the United States, front loaders of "average" quality do not cost an arm and leg in the UK/EU. This is why bearing replacments are most always DIY, warranty service calls. For the average person it simply does not pay.
"
When I was shopping for a "get be by" washer last fall to get by while I rebuilt my 1976 westy; I almost was going to buy the starter TL washer here.
At last Novembers super sales; a starter TL washer was about 239 ish dollars; the bottom FL washer 349 dollars.
Thus I ponder about ""Unlike the United States, front loaders of "average" quality do not cost an arm and leg in the UK/EU."
At the sale I bought my LG WM2501 HWA for 599 US dollars; one sale from 899. There was a non sale Maytag FL for about 495 too.
There were about roughly eight FL washers in this area on sale for less than 600 bucks us.
***Is this a lot of money compared to Europes average FL washers?
Average Joe and Jane in the USA who buy a 500 to 600 dollar FL washer and its spider breaks in 3 to 7 years will not rebuild it. They will get this giant estimate and thus either junk the machine; or repair it themselves.
RE
"Unlike the United States, front loaders of "average" quality do not cost an arm and leg in the UK/EU. This is why bearing replacments are most always DIY, warranty service calls. For the average person it simply does not pay.
"
When I was shopping for a "get be by" washer last fall to get by while I rebuilt my 1976 westy; I almost was going to buy the starter TL washer here.
At last Novembers super sales; a starter TL washer was about 239 ish dollars; the bottom FL washer 349 dollars.
Thus I ponder about ""Unlike the United States, front loaders of "average" quality do not cost an arm and leg in the UK/EU."
At the sale I bought my LG WM2501 HWA for 599 US dollars; one sale from 899. There was a non sale Maytag FL for about 495 too.
There were about roughly eight FL washers in this area on sale for less than 600 bucks us.
***Is this a lot of money compared to Europes average FL washers?
Average Joe and Jane in the USA who buy a 500 to 600 dollar FL washer and its spider breaks in 3 to 7 years will not rebuild it. They will get this giant estimate and thus either junk the machine; or repair it themselves.
"Miele washers in particular are problem due to the rather properitary nature of the company. Unlike other brands where one part may work for several machines, Miele parts are only for their machines. Nor is the company terribly liberal with advice and such"
I've actually had a pretty good experience dealing with Miele Canada, especially with getting information. I simply explained that I have the tools and experience to do most repairs and they were quite forthcoming. They sent me a complete parts list and exploded diagrams for both my washer and dryer when I asked for them. I've written seeking their opinion regarding the spider and will post if I get a reply. As for their parts prices, they are high, but so is the initial cost of ownership. They are no worse than the average VW or MB dealership in my experience. In fact, working on my Miele laundry machines often reminds me of working on my German cars... You sometimes need to scratch your head to figure out how it comes apart but it is usually very simple and almost always well engineered.
The spider/shaft condition is a bit of a dissappointment for me as I was really hoping that putting a few $$$ into this machine would have it running for another decade. I hesitate to say it, but the material choice/design of the irreplacable collet has the smell of planned obsolescence which is something I'm not a fan of.
I've actually had a pretty good experience dealing with Miele Canada, especially with getting information. I simply explained that I have the tools and experience to do most repairs and they were quite forthcoming. They sent me a complete parts list and exploded diagrams for both my washer and dryer when I asked for them. I've written seeking their opinion regarding the spider and will post if I get a reply. As for their parts prices, they are high, but so is the initial cost of ownership. They are no worse than the average VW or MB dealership in my experience. In fact, working on my Miele laundry machines often reminds me of working on my German cars... You sometimes need to scratch your head to figure out how it comes apart but it is usually very simple and almost always well engineered.
The spider/shaft condition is a bit of a dissappointment for me as I was really hoping that putting a few $$$ into this machine would have it running for another decade. I hesitate to say it, but the material choice/design of the irreplacable collet has the smell of planned obsolescence which is something I'm not a fan of.
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