Miele W1986 Cold Water Intake Problem

[Lee280zx]

I started getting a blinking light beside the "Water Intake" indicator on my W1986 (accompanied by the constant beeping and shut-down of the cycle).

I spent this morning trying to track the problem down. I disconnected both supply hoses on both ends. I checked all of the filters (including the ones that are just inside the back of the washing machine where both water supply hoses connect). There were no obstructions.

I also checked the flow from each spigot for the water hoses, and the water flow for both spigots was very strong. I then checked the hoses by connecting them to the spigots on one end and leaving them disconnected on the other end. I turned on the spigots, and water shot through fine.

I reconnected everything and tried to run a cycle. Here's what I found: The hot water comes through at a nice, full flow with problem at all (I pulled the detergent drawer out and verified this). However, the cold water just barely trickles out if I turn on a cold water cycle.

I almost never wash anything in cold water (if that could have anything to do with the problem). The machine will start washing on a hot water setting just fine, but then it shuts down later in the cycle when I presume it needs cold water (to rinse, I presume).

What could be causing this? Is there anything else I can do to try to correct the problem myself?

I live in an area with hard water, so I could try running some CLR through to clean out any hard water deposits. I was thinking I could put some in the cold water hose and then run a cold cycle. Would there be anything wrong with trying that?

 

[jerrod6]

This happened to my 10 year old W1986 last year.  The problem is the hardness of your water and what it does to the intake valves.  The only time my  problem was showing up was during the rinses which use cold water.  After a few of these cycle shutdowns I  watched as the water entered the machine for the rinses and realized that water flow was greatly reduced so I began pouring water from a bucket into the detergent dispenser during each rinse fill which solved the cycle termination problem.

 

I called Miele service and described the problem,  when the Miele tech arrived he connected his laptop to the PC area on the control panel.  He went to a screen on the laptop that displays machine faults, and as soon as he did his laptop displayed the water valve fault along with an actual picture of the inside of the machine with the defective  water valve outlined in red.

 

The machine has 3 water intake valves combined on to one unit part .  He replaced the unit and that fixed the problem.  He said it was due to hard water build up and they replace all three because if one is failing  due to hard water the rest will fail in the near future.  My guess is that warm to hot water helps move some of the hard deposits along into the machine where the detergent will deal with them, but cold water doesn't work as well with this..so the build up occurs in the cold water valves easier

 

I didn't think about running a cleaning solution through the fill hoses, but if you do you might want to connect the cold  hoses to the hot source to try to clean them,  but I do know that the problem is in the fill intake valves for cold water and not in the filter screens in the hoses and it is due to having hard water.

[this post was last edited: 9/8/2012-23:12]

 

[Lee280zx]

Jerrod6--

Thank you for the reply. After I read it, I bought a couple of gallons of vinegar and CLR. I tried the vinegar first because I know it's safer and I've read in other forums about people using it with laundry (in small amounts, like a teaspoon).

So I disconnected the cold supply hose at the spigot, pointed the end down to drain it, then filled the hose up with vinegar, and ran a cold cycle. I did that a few times with not a lot of change (but some, I think).

Then I decided to do the same thing with the CLR. I ran it through at least three or four times. During all of this, I kept the detergent/softener drawer out of the machine so I could see the water flow. I also placed the liquid detergent holder in the opening alone to catch the CLR as it came out. It worked well. I'd say I caught at least 80% of the CLR before it hit the rest of the machine.

I then ran all sorts of different cycles in quick succession (using the END option in between). I wanted to cycle water through the cold water valve, and cause the machine to open and close the valve, but, at least as importantly, I wanted to run a lot of water through the machine to rinse out any CLR in the system. I'm afraid it could damage the hoses or other components.

By the end of all of this, the cold water was flowing better, but not sufficiently to avoid the WATER INTAKE alert/shutdown. I noticed that by switching among the different temperature settings right after starting a cycle, I was able to get the cold water to open up fully with a vigorous, full flow. This usually happened after I switched from a hot setting to the warm 105 degree setting (some hot would come out, but then cold would flow fully). I would switch to cold and it would stay open.

This makes me think I am gaining ground. I just put more vinegar in the cold supply hose. I ran a tad past the valve, and now I'm going to let it sit like that all night to see if it loosens things up more. I'd have used the CLR for this, but I'm afraid it's too harsh.

Tomorrow I'll try to run many more cycles and see if the cold water flows freely.

I really appreciate your input. It let me know that this at least MIGHT work. I don't want to put in a service call. I just had to install a new door seal, and that cost around $400+ (I also chose to put a new drain hose on as a preventative measure). Another $400 repair right now is just not acceptable. $800 in repairs on a 9 year-old machine is not acceptable. I hesitated to do the first repair, but I felt as though this machine was worth maintaining. Now I'm starting to wish I had thrown it out and bought a lesser machine.

Have you had any other problems with yours?

 

[launderess]

Water Intake Valves On All Washing Machines

Will fail sooner or later, Miele's are no exception.

We have very soft water and my Miele's cold water valve behaved the same as your's about a year ago, so called service to have it swapped out.

Thing is that Miele washers use cold water not just for the rinse but during parts of the wash cycle as well (such as when filling and indicators tell the unit internal water temperature is higher than what the thermostat is set for), and if the unit cannot get cold water when called for will shut down/indicate fault.

My unit is older than either of you guys and have had Miele out here at least once a year on average for various issues. Yes, it tis expensive but want to keep the old girl up and running.

Most repairs can be done by the owner if he knows how to do so properly. All one then need to is order the proper parts from Miele.

In the case of the water valve watched Miele's tech do it and while one wouldn't want to, the process wasn't *that* bad.

 

[foraloysius]

What is CLR?

Keep descaling with the vinegar. My washer tech told me it is a good way to solve a problem with calcium build up in a water valve.

 

[launderess]

CLR

Calcium,Lime(scale) & Rust remover.

Product sold on this side of the pond made from acids to remove/deal with hard water mineral deposits around the home.

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[foraloysius]

Thank you!

I hope it's not too agressive for this purpose. Perhaps it's better to stick to vinegar or else to a liquid citric acid.

 

[Lee280zx]

Thank you for the replies. I'm being careful to keep the CLR out of the rest of the machine as much as possible. I think the vinegar might be good as a preventative measure, but I'm thinking the valve is bad enough now that I need to use the CLR. I rinse out the machine thoroughly, of course.

I think I'm making headway. I can get the cold water flowing freely now. But, I have noticed that it depends on how high my cold water tap is turned up to. If I turn it on too high, the cold water flow becomes restricted again. So I'm trying to leave it in the right spot and run several cold cycles right now. Time will tell if the problem reappears.

Launderess -- How can you have one call per year? That's got to run $300+ per visit, which means every three years you're spending $1000? It just doesn't make sense to me. My machine was about $1500 new, I think, and it ran for 8 years without any trouble (which isn't that good to begin with). At the rate you're spending, you're paying about $2600 for the second eight years of functionality.

Plus, there are my neighbors to consider. I won't have them thinking this is the kind of household that uses appliances which are constantly requiring service. If it were my sister it would be different. She lives in the country and has a Mercedes, sauna, and room for a pony.

 

[rolls_rapide]

It might not be just the valve.

Some of the more sophisticated machines incorporate a 'flowmeter', which is basically a small water wheel which revolves under the flow of incoming water, measuring it as it goes. This wheel could also be encrusted.

 

[jerrod6]

Agree with Laundress about the use of cold water even in cycles that use 140F or 190F.  The machine will take in cold water so that the cycle starts with warm water instead of immediately going to 140F or 190F.

 

In my nine, going on ten years(in January)  with my machine the water valve has been the only  problem.  The machine has never missed another beat and always delivers clean clothes without CL bleach even using the default cycle which only gives a  20 minute wash or 12 minutes if you don't have a full load,  so the way I look at it is that a $400 repair is cheaper than trying to buy another Miele washer.   I think the cost of my repair was $275 and $75 dollars of that was just to have the man drive to my house.  You are going to pay that kind of service charge with no matter what brand you have. I think the the W1986 is constructed much better than most machines available today except the 3XXX series, even though the newer machines have their steam utilities and advanced  tumbling techniques,  and I think that includes the newer 4X series. No need for steam because I have almost 200F WATER temperatures if I want them and I can get that temp very quickly. 

 

So it is worth it to me to keep my machine going as long as I can. I have it programmed for water+ in the washes and rinses so rinses don't get any better than this in today's washer world especially when many washers only last 5 years and then are completely irreparable. 

 

What happened with your washer boot?  

 

Why worry about what your neighbors think?  I don't care what mine think and they honestly don't care anything about what I get repaired, just that I keep my house looking good on the outside other than that my neighbors can bug off. 

[this post was last edited: 9/9/2012-16:51]

 

[launderess]

the cycle starts with warm water instead of immediately goin

Well yes and no.

On my Miele the washer will add cold water if it senses incoming water temperature is higher than what the thermostat is set to, however if one raises the setting cold water intake stops. This system by the way is the reason Miele washers must have both intake (hot and cold) connected even when using a unit as cold fill only.

One can start wash at any temperature one wishes. To save electric costs when doing a boil wash often will pre-wash in warm, then do the main wash starting at tap hot (120F or 140F depending upon if the boilers are on producing heat in winter), so not as to wait about for heating cold water. Also when doing a "cleaning out" cycle will also start with hot or very hot water.

Mind you my machine is older so maybe things that came along with the 19** series and after are different.

 

[launderess]

One Call Per Year

One did say "on average".

Have only had the unit for about fifteen years or so, and was making a guestimate.

Wasn't charged for all the calls as the first several were to deal with a problem that Miele never solved and has given me the run around. Unit stopped spinning going into high speed final spin when selected and have been given various answers as to why.

Aside from the nintial installation call out have had the following:

New drain pump and speed switch
New cold water valve

That seems to have been about it so in hindsight Miele hasn't been out *that* much that one has been out of pocket for, however the unit still will not spin at high speed. Latest theory is it could be the tachmeter (sp?), but since one feels that should have been investigated during any of the previous visits aren't going there yet incurring a call out charge.

Also Miele recently changed their call out pricing scheme. Back when one had those calls it was flat rate plus parts. Today IIRC they now charge a nominal fee just to arrive and then bill for labour/time and parts. So the longer they are working at your home the more it will cost.

As for running for eight years before having a problem, what can one say, nothing is perfect.

While Miele does build great washers, things do happen which is why spares are stocked and sold. It will also depend upon much the machine is used and how. Someone doing several loads per day is obviously going to put more wear on a unit versus one that is say at a summer cottage.

When all is said and done the only thing you can do to lessen call out charges is order spares and do the work yourself (common enough in Europe/UK), or use the unit until several (if any) things are "broken" and have one big service call.

For instance one had no idea the pump on our machine was bad, but the tech said it was going so best swap it out and be done. Pump was ordered and installed so that was that.

 

[jerrod6]

Yeah, I think they are a bit different with the 1986.   There is no option to do a warm prewash.  It is going to be cold and in the winter for me that water will be 38F.  After several minutes using this, the heater  starts turning off and on and gradually heats the water to around 105F before the prewash ends.

 

Even if I select 140F or 190F wash  cold water will come running in if the machine thinks the water is too hot.  So seems like it will not use really hot water in the beginning of  these cycles.  It doesn't even turn the heater on for several minutes after the 140F or 190F wash starts and even then it cycles on and off,with gradually longer and longer on times until near the middle of the wash  cycle when the heater just stays on until the end. At this point you can  feel the heat coming through the glass in the door.  So I think Miele was trying something different with these washers but they clean very well.

 

Laundress - What model do you have and when was it produced?   I would like to read the user manual and specs for it. Sounds interesting.

 

 

 

[launderess]

W1070

Can select any water temperature one wishes for certian cycles, though IIRC for special ones like "Woolens" there is a max setting internally that cannot be changed. Have never tried washing wool at anything >100F so cannot be sure.

If the temp dial is turned off (tap cold) the washer's sensors aren't activated and whatever water goes in is what it is. For the pre-wash one *thinks* heating will stop at 100F, regardless of how high the chosen setting. Again cannot be sure as it's been ages since one has read the manual and never tried going over warm water for pre-washing anyway. Most times use tap warm anyway to save energy costs.

Today's modern detergents will shift blood and other "do not start in hot water" stains quite well in warm water and it also serves to heat up the tubs for the "hot" wash to follow.

 

[Lee280zx]

Jerrod6--The comment about the neighbors was a joke in reference to Launderess' avatar, Hyancinth Bucket (it's pronounced "Bouquet").

I understand what all of you are saying about the cost of the repair vs. the cost of a new machine. But, had I known that I'd be looking at $650+ in repairs within one year, I would have thrown this washer out. Even a $500 machine usually lasts several years. I just expected more from this machine.

When you say the boot, are you referring to the door seal? It just started disintegrating and leaking. I don't put anything unusual in my machine, either. No harsh chemicals.

Right now I can get the cold water flowing well by playing with the cold water tap. If it is on too high, I get no flow. I presume that the higher the incoming pressure of the cold water is, the more the machine closes its cold intake valve. I think if it closes much at all, the mineral buildup from the hard water is causing it to seal off almost entirely.

I've come up with a new plan. My next step is to use a small pump I have. You can connect any garden hose to it (and thus either of the water supply lines) and it will pump out at high volume whatever liquid it is sitting in. I'm going to sit it in a 5-gallon bucket filled part way with vinegar and connect the cold water tap. I'm then going to turn a cold cycle on and switch back and forth between cold and hot to open and close the cold water valve repeatedly while the vinegar is flowing through the cold water intake.

If that fails, I'll do the same with the CLR. At this point, I'm willing to try all of this to avoid putting hundreds of dollars more in this machine. If it doesn't work, I may just throw it out. $650+ in repairs in one year is simply too much given that I'll still be dealing with a 10 year old machine after any repairs. And I don't use the machine that much to begin with.

 

[launderess]

Again,

You can order the part and do the work yourself. All that is required is the proper tools and a bit of time. Miele tech support will help walk you through it and or you can ask for assistance in the group.

For the valves you have to open the front of the unit (IIRC) then pop the top off, the rest is merely series of unclamping, unscrewing, removing, swapping, reclamping.....

Miele's techs often will tell customers on a service call for an older unit to "chuck it" and buy new. It's your money and your call. IMHO it's going to take something major like bearings, motor or something to go before I get rid of my unit. It does what I want and more importantly uses enough water to get the job done.

Finally suggest you do a search of forum archives, as most everything "old" is new again in terms of questions on washers. We have been down this path with other members and their Miele's as well.

Vintage Miele W1070 issue

Hi all, The internet is a great place since where else could I pose a question about a 20 year old washer! I love my 20 year old Miele W1070 washer (same as the W1065 but without the (coveted) port hole). Yes it uses way too much water for our sensitive water conservationist ways that we have...

www.automaticwasher.org

 

[Lee280zx]

Launderess -- I should do it myself. I'm very handy and have every tool known to man. I don't know when I got so lazy. If my latest idea doesn't work, I'll probably give it a whirl. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[gizmo]

inlet valve repair

I have recently done up a triple inlet valve for another Miele. I assume they use the same valve.

The intention is that the valves are a throw-away item. But you can rebuild them. Price a new inlet valve first, if is cheap enough then buy it and fit it.

If they are expensive, then you can use cheap/generic ones and wreck them to get the little rubber diaphragms inside.
again, I'm not familiar with your model, but I did this on a Miele W830 and it worked perfectly.

The Miele uses a triple inlet valve - one inlet, three outlets, one to prewash dispenser, one to main wash dispenser, and one to fabric softener dispenser. On the W830 washer it was filling very slow on all inlets, some worse than others. I did this:

remove plug from power supply.
turn off tap and disconnect hose.
remove top panel
double check power is disconnected
look at water triple inlet valve. On the W830 it has a triangular plastic connector board on top, all the wires connect to this board and two tongues from each solenoid poke up through this contact board. > unclip the wire connector from this triangular white plastic connector board. (This board would come complete with a new water inlet valve, it is just this connector that makes it something special to Miele and justify the extortionate price they probably charge. Under the triangle of plastic it is just a generic European triple valve.) You can pull up on the plastic board to remove it off the three solenoids. It is tight but it does come off. Use a screwdriver at each pair of terminals sticking through to prise it off. At least on the W830 it is not glued or soldered, it just pushes on to the terminals.
Now you can pull up on each solenoid and wiggle them off. (the solenoid is the circle of plastic with two terminals sticking up, there are three of them.) You might need to pry them up with a screwdriver but be careful not to break the plastic tube that goes up the middle of each.

When you have removed the three solenoids, you should see a plastic body with three plastic tubes or spikes sticking up. The big news is that you can unscrew them. At the base of each tube is a plastic disc of the same plastic (all one piece) which is divided up with spokes all the way around. The disc is about the size of an Australian twenty-cent piece. So you all know how big that is, right? You can use the points of a pair of needle nose pliers to turn the plastic disc to unscrew the plastic and open up each valve. (three valves in one block). DO NOT grip the plastic tube in the pliers, you will wreck it. Just use the plier tips as a key to turn / unscrew the disc base. Inside each tube is a fine spring and metal plunger, DON'T lose them. Place the plastic tube/disc aside, leaving the spring and plunger inside. (the plastic thing looks a bit like a mushroom...)
Now inside the valve you can see the cause of the trouble, a black plastic / rubber diaphragm. It will have hardened up with age and not be as flexible as a new one.
You will probably find that a cheap inlet valve for many makes of washer will give you a matching rubber diaphragm. I used Fisher&Paykel, and they fitted fine. I have also used European Whirlpool ones, too. (From an Italian made Whirlpool.) Heaven knows what is in US machines, but an Electrolux branded one (eg Frigidaire) MIGHT fit, especially if they use European or Chinese inlet valves.
Any way, that is enough words.
Put it all back together carefully and try it.

 

[jerrod6]

I have the old valve unit  and the box with the new part number  so will try to post some pictures of them.   I do agree that if you have the part you can do it yourself once you unscrew  the two hundred(not really) screws that hold the top on. And the Miele 1986 is the same machine that was sold in AU, just with different cycle names and  a max temperature listed at 190F instead of 95C.  I found the programming instructions for the  1986 machine in the AU Miele 1986 manual.  Of course they dare not print this in the USA manual because... well... we are idiots. 

 

Sorry I  don't know anything about Hyancinth. 

 

Now to find the old part in the basement.

[this post was last edited: 9/10/2012-18:26]