miele w3033 from 120 to 240 volts
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vacfanatic
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I don't know how you would do that on the W3033. I own one and it's all built for american 120V - there is a stepup transformer inside it that converts the 120 to 240. Some of the components run off 120, some 240 inside this machine.
vacfanatic
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vacfanatic
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Also note that the programming in the W3033 as shown in my video link only goes to 70C, and the W3033 only has 1 heater rated at 1060 Watts. I've also got the factory service manual and it does not have any information about conversion to 240V.
<iframe width="560" height="349" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="349" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
miele w3033 from 120 to 240
Thanks for all the pictures and the info, what I know is that electronic parts get one line at 120 and one line from the transformet as a neutral. the only thing that work at 120 is the heater. Miele will sell to me the 2100 Watts 240 Volts heater but they will not do anything to help me change the voltage.
So at this point yes it is possible to do it. It will be faster to heat the water and I'm not obligated to keep the water heater "on" all the time I wash. Plus in some short programs that I need hot water (60° or 70°) the machine will reach it. In some cases the F20 after a wash will come out so.... and plus a wash cycle will be cheaper.
Thanks again for you info.
ps coud you please tell me what it means "rinse process" in the program list? I turn it on but I don't see the difference. Thanks
Thanks for all the pictures and the info, what I know is that electronic parts get one line at 120 and one line from the transformet as a neutral. the only thing that work at 120 is the heater. Miele will sell to me the 2100 Watts 240 Volts heater but they will not do anything to help me change the voltage.
So at this point yes it is possible to do it. It will be faster to heat the water and I'm not obligated to keep the water heater "on" all the time I wash. Plus in some short programs that I need hot water (60° or 70°) the machine will reach it. In some cases the F20 after a wash will come out so.... and plus a wash cycle will be cheaper.
Thanks again for you info.
ps coud you please tell me what it means "rinse process" in the program list? I turn it on but I don't see the difference. Thanks
vacfanatic
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mysteryclock
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Another alternative, if you don't already have a W3033, is to get a Little Giant (PW6065). They are quite spendy ($4k US$ vs. $2K for the W3033) but they come already wired for 240v, can do a 95C boil wash and can be had in any color you want as long as it is stainless steel! With those you'd also maintain your warranty coverage running at 240v, unlike a conversion which would pretty much cause Miele to laugh and hang up the phone. And, in spite of the price differences, it wouldn't take too many blown components in a W3033 paid for out of pocket to close the gap between it and the Little Giant.
If only Miele would introduce the Octoplus in the US for land-bound (non-Marine) customers. Now that's a washer!
http://www.allbrands.com/products/abp24258.html
If only Miele would introduce the Octoplus in the US for land-bound (non-Marine) customers. Now that's a washer!
http://www.allbrands.com/products/abp24258.html
mysteryclock
Well-known member
Actually, minor correction - the Little Giant runs at 208v, not 240v oddly enough. But still boil-wash capable.
toggleswitch
Well-known member
Miele will sell to me the 2100 Watts 240 Volts heater but they will not do anything to help me change the voltage.
Add a relay.
Control/energize the relay with the 120v normally applied to the heater.
Get your 240v for the heater from outside the machine.
Add a relay.
Control/energize the relay with the 120v normally applied to the heater.
Get your 240v for the heater from outside the machine.
vacfanatic
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I know this is just an opinion, but I don't think of a Miele as being a brand of machine to hack on by adding relays etc. I paid $2,000 for mine so that would keep me from ever moding it, but I guess it depends on personal taste and how much a person paid for it.
I love mine though, I got it in Jan 2010 and I just passed 1000 hours on it. Zero problems. According to design specifications, I have another 19,000 hours left on the bearings before they may need replacing. They are rated for 20,000 hours.
Andrew
I love mine though, I got it in Jan 2010 and I just passed 1000 hours on it. Zero problems. According to design specifications, I have another 19,000 hours left on the bearings before they may need replacing. They are rated for 20,000 hours.Andrew
The machine that I have is 20 mons old with 1250 working hrs. I'm happy with that. The thing is that for a 1/2 or 3/4 full load the machine will not get at hot temp. on extra white program unless I add extended. The programs that this Miele manage are from the european models with 2100W heater. Only the custom program is helping me with hot temp. The program time stops until gets the temp. and then it go on.
AZREOspecialist
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@ italmex
I dont' know where you are getting the information that the W3033 programming is from European models. No, it's not. The programming in the W3033 and W48XX were designed for the US market. Max temps only go to 158F regardless of your heater output and cycle times are decidedly non-European. Spending the time, money and effort in making a useless modification to your machine would appear to be a disaster waiting to happen.
If you want true European cycles, why didn't you just buy a true 220v Miele or an Asko? If upgrading your machine to 220v also added European cycle times, a true profile wash, and boil temps then it would be worth it. But what you are proposing will do none of these.
I dont' know where you are getting the information that the W3033 programming is from European models. No, it's not. The programming in the W3033 and W48XX were designed for the US market. Max temps only go to 158F regardless of your heater output and cycle times are decidedly non-European. Spending the time, money and effort in making a useless modification to your machine would appear to be a disaster waiting to happen.
If you want true European cycles, why didn't you just buy a true 220v Miele or an Asko? If upgrading your machine to 220v also added European cycle times, a true profile wash, and boil temps then it would be worth it. But what you are proposing will do none of these.
If you check the time on normal (cotton in EU), it will be the same that offers a w3000 series in EU. pillows, outwear, delicate,wool, etc are exacly like in EU machines (3000 series), extra white is made for US market. Sanitize is the same like in EU. If you are taking about w4842 programs like confoter the heat will not turn on because 1060w is not enough to heat a 8kg. wash.
Again, the only thing that I'm interested is to know how to change from 120 to 240 so it will not matter the program or the temp. the machine reach it plus it will be faster and cheaper.
Again, the only thing that I'm interested is to know how to change from 120 to 240 so it will not matter the program or the temp. the machine reach it plus it will be faster and cheaper.
launderess
Well-known member
Only thing that I'm interested is to know how to change
You do not know if it will result in any significant savings because you do not know the parameters of how the machine is programmed. For all you know Miele for reasons not disclosed to the public may control the heating portion of a cycle regardless of how much power is used.
You also do not know what the machine will do in response to heating water faster. It may proceed with the rest of the cycle as programmed, or it could speed-up the remainder of the cycles.
You do not know if it will result in any significant savings because you do not know the parameters of how the machine is programmed. For all you know Miele for reasons not disclosed to the public may control the heating portion of a cycle regardless of how much power is used.
You also do not know what the machine will do in response to heating water faster. It may proceed with the rest of the cycle as programmed, or it could speed-up the remainder of the cycles.
AZREOspecialist
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@ italmex
Is the W3033 not cleaning to your satisfaction? My W4842 has no problem heating an 8kg load to158F. That's what it was designed to do and that's exactly what it does. A 1,000-watt heater is just fine to heat up to 160F-170F. In fact, Miele sells a 110v machine in Australia that heats to 200F. Maybe a cheaper alternative would be to figure out how to get that Australian firmware onto your machine to allow for higher temps without needing you to make all these modifications.
I still think a better, cheaper, and more effective alternative is to sell your Miele set and get an Asko 220v instead.
Is the W3033 not cleaning to your satisfaction? My W4842 has no problem heating an 8kg load to158F. That's what it was designed to do and that's exactly what it does. A 1,000-watt heater is just fine to heat up to 160F-170F. In fact, Miele sells a 110v machine in Australia that heats to 200F. Maybe a cheaper alternative would be to figure out how to get that Australian firmware onto your machine to allow for higher temps without needing you to make all these modifications.
I still think a better, cheaper, and more effective alternative is to sell your Miele set and get an Asko 220v instead.
Thanks. The miele you are taking about is in Canada and yes it gets up to 95°C. My point is that the machine gets the temp. faster so it will be cheaper at 240v. What probably whatI have to do is change the relay for the heater, change the heater to a 220V 2100W and disconnect the transformer. The heat element is about $80-85 so maybe with $120 the change is over. Thanks
brisnat81
Well-known member
Hi AZReo,
No idea why Miele would be selling a 110v machine here, everything is 240v 10amps, 2400watts.
Italmex, you're still using the same amount of power to raise the temperature of the water from x to y. If it's limited to 1000watts on 110v it'll just take twice as long as it would on 2000watts on 220v. The amount of watts used is still exactly the same, it's just the time that changes.
I can select US programs on my Miele, also Euro and Sweden, it also lets me program the heater wattage and drum size. In the wiring schematic, where is the transformer, is it in line with the power cord, or connected after the fact?
No idea why Miele would be selling a 110v machine here, everything is 240v 10amps, 2400watts.
Italmex, you're still using the same amount of power to raise the temperature of the water from x to y. If it's limited to 1000watts on 110v it'll just take twice as long as it would on 2000watts on 220v. The amount of watts used is still exactly the same, it's just the time that changes.
I can select US programs on my Miele, also Euro and Sweden, it also lets me program the heater wattage and drum size. In the wiring schematic, where is the transformer, is it in line with the power cord, or connected after the fact?
Italmex
It will be no cheaper at all.
Electricity is sold in cents per kilowatt hour (Kwh).
If you use a new heater element with double the wattage, it will heat twice as fast but that is because it uses twice as much power. The number of Kwh will be the same.
Changing to 240 volts allows you to use a higher wattage element, but that just means your machine will chew up the Kwh's faster. The total number of Kwh will be about the same.
Is your house supply 240v or 120v? If you have 120 (110) at home now, the ONLY advantage you could get from converting the machine to 240v is a faster cycle, because the water temp setting will be reached quicker. The other things you want such as higher temperatures, are decided by the machine's programming and will NOT change if you convert the voltage.
Remember that the electronics in the machine (the microprocessor and control circuits) will almost certainly run from 5volts and 12volts DC - there is another power supply inside, on the circuit board, that changes the 240v Ac down to 5v and 12v DC for the control circuitry. So it doesn't matter what voltage supply the machine runs from, the programming, including maximum temperatures, will remain the same.
It appears that this machine is made basically as a 240v machine, with a transformer to step up the 120v supply to 240v for the motor, pump, controller, other circuits, with only the heater element being supplied 120v direct from the mains. That heating element will already be switched by a relay.
In effect, you supply 120 volts AC to the machine. It then is fed through a transformer to supply 240 volts to the controller. (and motor, etc.) that 240 volts is then stepped down again to the low voltage control circuits (5 or 12 volts). They switch a relay which connects the 120v supply direct to the special 120V element. (NOT via the transformer.)
If you were to proceed to a modification to 240 volts, you would NOT need to add a relay, the existing heater will already be fed via a relay. You would have to check that the relay is rated for 240 volts, too. I would NOT attempt a conversion and advise you to drop the idea.
.
It will be no cheaper at all.
Electricity is sold in cents per kilowatt hour (Kwh).
If you use a new heater element with double the wattage, it will heat twice as fast but that is because it uses twice as much power. The number of Kwh will be the same.
Changing to 240 volts allows you to use a higher wattage element, but that just means your machine will chew up the Kwh's faster. The total number of Kwh will be about the same.
Is your house supply 240v or 120v? If you have 120 (110) at home now, the ONLY advantage you could get from converting the machine to 240v is a faster cycle, because the water temp setting will be reached quicker. The other things you want such as higher temperatures, are decided by the machine's programming and will NOT change if you convert the voltage.
Remember that the electronics in the machine (the microprocessor and control circuits) will almost certainly run from 5volts and 12volts DC - there is another power supply inside, on the circuit board, that changes the 240v Ac down to 5v and 12v DC for the control circuitry. So it doesn't matter what voltage supply the machine runs from, the programming, including maximum temperatures, will remain the same.
It appears that this machine is made basically as a 240v machine, with a transformer to step up the 120v supply to 240v for the motor, pump, controller, other circuits, with only the heater element being supplied 120v direct from the mains. That heating element will already be switched by a relay.
In effect, you supply 120 volts AC to the machine. It then is fed through a transformer to supply 240 volts to the controller. (and motor, etc.) that 240 volts is then stepped down again to the low voltage control circuits (5 or 12 volts). They switch a relay which connects the 120v supply direct to the special 120V element. (NOT via the transformer.)
If you were to proceed to a modification to 240 volts, you would NOT need to add a relay, the existing heater will already be fed via a relay. You would have to check that the relay is rated for 240 volts, too. I would NOT attempt a conversion and advise you to drop the idea.
.
thanks for the advise. The idea to change 120 to 240 is basicaly to get the temp faster. This machine have for example the short ones (cotton) that will not wait to reach the programe temp. run the time and drain finishing the wash cycle. Basically this is the idea, be faster. About the electricity I'm sure it will be cheaper. and yes the only thing that runs at 120 is the heat element. The other parts run at 220-240, 50-60Hz.
"I'm sure it will be cheaper..."
It won't. It's a scientific fact.
It won't. It's a scientific fact.
mrb627
Well-known member
Guarantee?
Wait, are you saying that Miele doesn't hit the target temps?
Malcolm
Wait, are you saying that Miele doesn't hit the target temps?
Malcolm
launderess
Well-known member
Not All Front Loaders With Heaters
Even European versions past or present will hold the timer until set temperature.
It all comes down to what parameters the timer/mother board is set for versus incoming water temperature against desired temp.
For instance my mechanical/electronic Miele will only stay in the heating portion of the cycle based upon timer settings (factory). Once the time is up in either "long" or "short" cycles the timer will advance to the next portion of the cycle. Mind you the heater will stay on until the thermostat registers the desired temp and shuts it off. However if the incoming water was cold or very cold and one chose a very high wash temp (>140 or >170) there is good chance the wash cycle will end before water reaches that temperature.
OTHO my Miele has 3000 watts of heating power so in theory that should be more than enough juice to take ice water to boiling in the allowed amount of time.
Given how Miele has gone to all 120v washers with only around 1000 watts of heating power, one can see how a short cycle coupled with cold fill with cold or very cold water could cause problems reaching hot or very hot temperatures.
Even European versions past or present will hold the timer until set temperature.
It all comes down to what parameters the timer/mother board is set for versus incoming water temperature against desired temp.
For instance my mechanical/electronic Miele will only stay in the heating portion of the cycle based upon timer settings (factory). Once the time is up in either "long" or "short" cycles the timer will advance to the next portion of the cycle. Mind you the heater will stay on until the thermostat registers the desired temp and shuts it off. However if the incoming water was cold or very cold and one chose a very high wash temp (>140 or >170) there is good chance the wash cycle will end before water reaches that temperature.
OTHO my Miele has 3000 watts of heating power so in theory that should be more than enough juice to take ice water to boiling in the allowed amount of time.
Given how Miele has gone to all 120v washers with only around 1000 watts of heating power, one can see how a short cycle coupled with cold fill with cold or very cold water could cause problems reaching hot or very hot temperatures.
mrb627
Well-known member
Hmmm...
In this case, it seems that the Asko is a better value. Or grab a Bosch machine while you still can...
Malcolm
In this case, it seems that the Asko is a better value. Or grab a Bosch machine while you still can...
Malcolm
Sorry buy miele is much better that asko. asko is now owned by merloni family, same as ariston washers so... miele is better. About bosch, yes is good but....still with miele. About my Miele w3033 the only program that stop time until gets temp is the custom one. All the others are moved by time no temp. So custom program is the only one that it dosn't matter the incoming temp of the water and the short or extended program, it gets the temp. Thatis the reason I'm looking to change 120 to 240.
AZREOspecialist
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@ brisnat81
I meant Canada, not Australia.
@ mrb627
I totally agree. Get a machine built for 240v.
@ italmex
Your costs will not change, it's a mathematical fact. No amount of "I believe it will be cheaper" will change the math. If your machine takes 10 minutes to heat with 220v, it will take 20 minutes using 110v. The wattage used will be the same, just over a longer period of time using lower voltage. But the total energy expended is the same and will cost exactly the same. Math is math regardless of what you "think" or "believe".
Also, I challenge your conclusions on how the W3033 behaves in Custom vs. other cycles. I have a W4842 with essentially the same firmware, voltage, etc. My machine uses more water than yours. It never has trouble hitting temps on any cycle. However, i also have the machine hooked up to cold AND hot water as it was designed. Feeding the machine only cold water will not function correctly - the W4842 and W3033 were not designed as cold-fill only machines.
I meant Canada, not Australia.
@ mrb627
I totally agree. Get a machine built for 240v.
@ italmex
Your costs will not change, it's a mathematical fact. No amount of "I believe it will be cheaper" will change the math. If your machine takes 10 minutes to heat with 220v, it will take 20 minutes using 110v. The wattage used will be the same, just over a longer period of time using lower voltage. But the total energy expended is the same and will cost exactly the same. Math is math regardless of what you "think" or "believe".
Also, I challenge your conclusions on how the W3033 behaves in Custom vs. other cycles. I have a W4842 with essentially the same firmware, voltage, etc. My machine uses more water than yours. It never has trouble hitting temps on any cycle. However, i also have the machine hooked up to cold AND hot water as it was designed. Feeding the machine only cold water will not function correctly - the W4842 and W3033 were not designed as cold-fill only machines.
launderess
Well-known member
The Dealer Passes
I give up, as the guy will not be moved! *LOL*
Had a feeling that he is using his Miele as a cold fill only which indeed could cause problems. There just isn't enough heating power to take cold water to anything but perhaps 100F or if pushed about 120F (and evne then), within the cycle times alloted on these machines.
There is also the fact many modern detergents work so well in cold or cool water that things will be mostly clean by the time temperature reaches anywhere near "hot".
I give up, as the guy will not be moved! *LOL*
Had a feeling that he is using his Miele as a cold fill only which indeed could cause problems. There just isn't enough heating power to take cold water to anything but perhaps 100F or if pushed about 120F (and evne then), within the cycle times alloted on these machines.
There is also the fact many modern detergents work so well in cold or cool water that things will be mostly clean by the time temperature reaches anywhere near "hot".
mrb627
Well-known member
Cold Water Detergents
I agree. I think the cold water formulas work quite well and are the wave of the future. I was told that a washing machine with an on board heater will be hard to find in 5 years so we had better get used to it. I would also suspect that like more efficient dishwashers, clothes washer cycles will get longer too.
Malcolm
I agree. I think the cold water formulas work quite well and are the wave of the future. I was told that a washing machine with an on board heater will be hard to find in 5 years so we had better get used to it. I would also suspect that like more efficient dishwashers, clothes washer cycles will get longer too.
Malcolm
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