Mobile Maid Akron OH rebuild

[akronman]

Ken

Thanks for info, and yes I think it is supposed to be on. I want to fix/figure out or leave alone before I paint the machine. I'm going to first get my multi-meter and start labeling all the wires leaving the timer, then open it a bit to see what I might find. Everything else about the machine and the timer and that 3-cycle switch works, this is the final repair needed and I gotta be able to figure it out. Since it's only 600 watts and can be chosen to heat for 23 minutes of drying, I doubt that energizing it throughout the entire cycle could damage anything. I load plastics away from it and I always open the machine to steam dry instead of that heat cycle anyhows, so the energy usage would likely be about the same if I instead powered it throughout water cycles. That's wondering out loud, but first various timer inspections are the way to go.

So far it is giving excellent results, I just want it perfected and painted before the Thanksgiving crowd arrives. And yes it's lots quicker than my 92 KA and 82 Hotpoint.

 

[bajaespuma]

Be careful!!

I forgot that when we owned a GE pull-out almost 99% of the load was always china, glasses and silverware. Mom INSISTED on hand-washing all utensils, cookware and anything else that didn't fit easily in the dishwasher pins. Back in the sixties we had very little in the way of plastics (other than melamine)that I wash in my dishwasher all the time.

One of the first washes I did in a restored Mobile Maid, I made the mistake of putting one of my color-coded plastic cutting boards in the lower rack as I do all the time in my contemporary machine. The heat from the 600-watt heater melted one end of the board. If you turn the lights off, you can see those Calrod heater elements glow. There was a reason GE and other manufacturers made it very clear that certain plastic items like baby bottles needed to be secured in the upper racks. These machines weren't exactly careful with energy outputs. If you have a China/Crystal cycle, use it; it's the safest option because the heater is off for almost all of the cycle.

 

[akronman]

care and caution

Ken--trust me I fully remember melting Melmac and handles and plastic when we had a MM and a 1960 GE pullout. So far I've loaded this well and then open it up to steam dry anyhows. I'm looking to figure out and perfect the timer, other heat ideas are pretty unlikely.

I'll keep you posted on timer inspections.

I may also have a chance on an impeller model MM, we'll see if the deal goes through. When I was a kid and it was all we had, it was great. But nowadays with 3 level-washing and even this 66MM with 3 levels, I bet the impeller version and its exact loading needs would wear me out.

 

[akronman]

No water heating

I figured out the Calrod wires and checked for power throughout a cycle, no heat except for dry cycle. Then I took out the timer, took it apart, everything looks fine except wear on the motor contacts, easily sanded to shiny and flat again, no problems.

 

In the picture, the heater contact is the third from the left, and stationary, pretty much halfway up the board. The next one outboard, much longer and moving on cams, is the positive power lead. The most outboard on the left is the water valve. So left to right it's Water----power----Heater. Also, this POWER one rides on the outside cam'd(spelling?) edge of the single cam you'll see in the next pic. Therefore very easy to watch. The outer cam has 3 levels-----5 high spots for 5 water fills, lots of middle space with no contact to the left or right, then finally a long lowest level for heater contact for the last half of the cycle, drying only after all 5 water bumps are passed. Pictures might be bad, but this timer really only powers the Calrod for the dry cycle, not the water cycles.

 

 

 

[akronman]

poor photography

pic is bad, but this one disc, with all its grooves and ridges and bumps, does it all. You can sort of make out the very outermost edge has some external bumps visible in the lower left, that's 2 of the water cycles. Once the timer was all the way apart, I could see how it operates, and now I do believe I have a rare model with no Calrod water heating. Only heated drying.

 

The cams for limiting the heater timing for the various cycles is very near the center of the board, and simply breaks the neutral, and I can follow the contact wires back to the cycle switch. So the only positive power is the one descibed one post back, and only is on for the entire heating part of the cycle. Pics are bad but bright kitchen lights made it clear as a bell.

 

[akronman]

and

It turns out the constant positive/cam-broken neutral operates in this way for the cycles Model SP390B1, 1966)

Regular 20 minutes heat, 3 minutes no heat til end of cycle.

Pots Pan 10 minutes heat, 13 minutes broken neutral.

China 5 minutes heat, 18 minutes broken neutral.

 

Now that I've had it apart and back together and it ran one perfect cycle, if anyone has ideas on how to heat for some washes or rinses, I'll listen and ain't afraid to dig back in to the timer again, but otherwise I'm done. It's a wonderful washer with clean results, Power showering all the time, potent arm spray.

 

Now to decide on new colors for painting....

 

[combo52]

Very Rare ENERGY STAR 1966 MM DW, LOL

It does look like you have a rare model Mark, it probably would not be to difficult to use a timer from a similar reversing motor GE DW to get wash and rinse heating. You could just add a relay and turn the heater on whenever the main motor is on or even as you suggested wire the relay to the timer motor circuit so the heater runs the full cycle. I would probably wire it with two relays so the heater would be on all the time the timer motor is running and the main motor is running, this way you will get an automatic air-dry and protect the fragile old plastisol coating in the bottom of the tub from the Calrods heat.

 

[akronman]

Hiya John

John--good to hear from you------I think relays are easier to wire in than finding some other timer---I am semi-familiar with relays, but only the style where low volt turns on high volt, not here where it's all 120, but 1/3 amp or so timer motor versus 5.5 amp heater, so I might ask for Ebay or Grainger advice from you for the relays to buy. I lokked on Ebay a few day ago and got quickly confused.

 

It's approximately impossible to get heat only for the wash, so my best wish is heat whenenver the main motor runs, and then never for the dry cycle. Give me a few days to think out your 2 relay idea, but throw me some relay PN's any time you want.

 

Thanks-----I was quite surprised going thru the timer and contacts and wires, but it nows seems truly obvious that this model doesn't heat the water.

 

I realize what I'm doing will make most of that $60 replacement switch useless, but you live and learn. The machine itself was only $20, lol, and $2 for the new Formica top.

 

 

Thanks for your help--

Mark

 

 

[akronman]

relay

John and other pro's----the link is for a 120V coil relay, I believe it's what I want.

 

Also, you mention wiring through both the timer motor power and the main motor power, so the heater only works when both are running, but if i remove all the heater leads from the timer and only power the heater through a main motor relay, it'll only work when the main motor is going. I'm not sure why I need the timer motor involved. And I wonder if there's enough of the schematic left inside the machine to figure which lead is for WASH direction instead of Drain, I could get it powered only when it's washing and rinsisng, not motor running for drain.

 

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Magnetic-Relay-6AZU5

 

[combo52]

120 Coil Relay

Hi Mark, yes the relay you found should work well, you are correct that just one relay would be needed for what you want to do, just wire the relay coil to the main motor winding and to the other side of the line, John L.

 

[akronman]

John----one last question

I always have another question for John--I think I owe you a Hanukkah gift!

 

What's left of my schematic shows 3 windings inside the motor, Pump-Wash-Run. And the bottom of the diagram, the "ladder" section, shows the colors of wire for each. While I'd prefer to heat the Calrod for Wash instead of whenever the motor is running, if I use the WASH wire it's just the start windings and will turn off the heat once the motor is up and running? I believe I need to use the RUN wire to power my new relay, Yellow/Red joined to YEllow, and the heater will always work when the motor is running in any direction.

 

The top half of the diagram shows the YellowRed coming from the motor relay to the motor Yellow.

 

The relay is in the mail, hoping to get this done right with one more opening of the innards.

 

Thanks again-----this MobileMaid washes EVERYTHING. Sorry the pic is on its side.

 

[combo52]

120 Coil Relay Addition

Yes Mark I think it will be easier to just wire the heater to run whenever the motor is on.

 

[akronman]

All good

John-----it's wired up perfectly with your advice, and I even temporarily hooked up a test light to prove exactly when the heater goes off and on, exactly with the motor. And exactly with the little click from the new relay.

 

While I had the machine on its side, I undid the 4 motor screws, the wires left just enough slack, and wiped clean the sleeve bearing and spindle, then some 3-in-1 non-detergent oil on it, all back together now and one great load of dirty dishes done.

 

Also, while crawling around and scraping more paint off the cabinet, a better read of the nameplate says AMPS 6, more evidence that this rare model SP390B3 did not ever heat the water. UNTIL NOW!  And the motor says 2-18-66, not as old as me but still running.

 

Thanks for your help, John!

 

All done now except for painting

 

[mickeyd]

 

 

Mark, the Mobile Maid looks perfectly at home and welcome in your kitchen. That's the same kitchen I LIVED IN at my Aunt Margaret's house with her Easy Spin wheeled up to an identical sink. Your sink is now coveted by newbees, paying fortunes for retro redesigns of their kitchens. Cool idea with the table cloths. I have one exactly like one of yours. But most of all, I admire and envy your mechanical skill. Good on you, Dude! Top Load Portables Rule! Can't wait for the day when you tackle a Combo.

 

[akronman]

Mickey

Thanks-----I had a kitchen table in there for ages, and collected about 10 50's print tablecloths, and used them and loved them. When I remodeled and put a 50's Westinghouse roaster and a cabinet for a Nutone Food center in, I had to get rid of the table.  All those great tablecloths had to go somewhere! The sink installation made me lose the doors under it, so more tableloths now act as curtains there. Most of the tablecloth/curtains do NOT match, but look great anyhows, I love it and appreciate your comments. Tough luck to old Martha Stewart.

 

[akronman]

Motor

Motor problem---this machine has done a load of dishes wonderfully about every other day for 10 days------then tonight it ran through most of the cycle, got to final rinse and worked fine, paused then advanced for the final pumpout, I heard the relay click and then nothing.  I advanced the timer and slowly advanced it through another cycle, each time the motor should run it clicked once, buzzed a bit, never started up. I waited for cool-down time, an hour, to see if thermal overload had kicked in, still nothing. Finally I emptied it and turned it on its side, probably 2 hours after the screwup. With no disassembly at all, you can stick your fingers into the motor bottom from underneath.  At first the blades were entirely stuck, soon my fingers freed it and it turned nicely. I set it up straight and turned it on, it ran perfectly through another load of dishes.

 

About 2 weeks ago, doing other repairs, I had the bottom of the motor off and added 3 drops of turbine oil to the bottom bearing, but I've never seen or touched the top bearing.

 

[akronman]

stolen

this pic is stolen from another thread, but is my same exact motor. Sleeve bearing at the bottom

 

[akronman]

rotor

rotor pic, also a stolen jpeg

 

[akronman]

more stealing

this pic should be the top view of my motor, but I've never had it that far apart. So yes I need to start some Ebay searches on GE motor WD26x56 or WD26X63. In the meantime, take it apart and get some cleanup done and then some turbine oil? I imagine the bearings are pretty much factory assembled to the motor, it's nothing I should think of replacing myself? Turbine oil for a sleeve bearing is correct?

 

Everything else is working wonderfully, this machine cleans everything, but a reliable motor is necessary.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice. So far I know it's a reversing motor with a sleeve bearing at the base, no capacitor but it has a relay mounted elsewhere,  not much else. But I am less fearful each project of getting into motors, relays, timers, etc. That's thanks to all you guys--

Thanks

Mark

 

PS. If I properly attribute 3 photos to Rollermatic, with thanks, I shouldn't end up as someone's prison bi&ch.

 

 

 

 

[combo52]

GE DW Motor Problems

Hi Mark, sorry your motor is having problems. These motors do use just sleeve bearings on both ends and turbine oil is great for this purpose.

 

I was never a big fan of this motor and pump system on GE DWs, and I always found that 3450 RPM DW motors that just had sleeve bearings to be not all that durable. D&M, WH and HP DWs also only had sleeve bearing main motors in the 1960s.

 

Overall the 1960s was not a time of real durable DWs [ with the exception of Kitchenaid ] even the great performing WPs were of poor long term durability [ pump and motor problems ] and WH , D&M and HP were throw away machines after a few repairs, LOL. A typical family running the DW once or more per day often got less that five years use out of a DW before replacement.

 

The best advice I have for DW collectors on this site is to try to find those rare machines that had little or no use if you expect to use them as everyday machines. Mark you may end up needing another motor and pump for your machine, if you do I may have a good used one, contact me if interested, John L.