Modern Dishwashers

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<span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: EN-US;">Henrik, </span>

 

<span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: EN-US;">Electrolux dishwashers in Europe and the US might share similar parts... but the programming is pretty different.</span>

 

<span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: EN-US;">I just browsed reviewed.com for some time and looked up their water consumption data. On the Normal cycle, some US dishwashers used only three gallons (11 liters) of water - yet, there were also quite a number of dishwashers that used around five gallons (19 liters) on the Energy Star wash cycle. Heavy cycles tend to start at seven gallons (26 liters). Now, 26 liters of water... I think our dishwashers used that much in the 80's. and don't forget that TOL Maytag units that guzzled 12.5 gallons (47 liters) on the Jet Clean heavy cycle.</span>

 

<span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: EN-US;">Now, one should think that this amount of water would make the US dishwasher really fast - but this apparently is not the case. Two to three hours seem to be the norm, despite two to five times the water usage of European units. </span>

 

<span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: EN-US;">And temperature is a whole different story altogether. Most manuals won't say a thing about wash temps during the cycle - only that Hi Temp or Boost options will raise the temp... whatever that means. If you have a look at the service manuals for the current Kenmore dishwashers - the ones with the 360 PowerWash - you will see that the target temp for all heated wash cycles is 105F (41C) and that there is a time-out for both the main wash and the final rinse heating step (40 to 60 minutes, depending on the cycle). Euro units, even on Eco, will generally heat to 50C (122F) - a temp that Whirlpool dishwashers and its spin-off brands only reach by selecting Hi Temp, which, by my definition, should reach 70C (158F) during a true high temp wash.</span>

 

<span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: EN-US;">Therefore, I'll gladly keep my modern Euro dishwasher. If I select the speed option, which I usually do, the heaviest wash cycle takes 90 minutes and uses about 15 liters (four gallons). During that time, both the wash and the final rinse are heated to 70C (158F) and even the prewash and the two interim rinses are too hot to stick my fingers in the water. And, of course, each fill is cold water. I don't know any US dishwasher that can pull this off - even with a hot fill. The KitchenAids with the self-cleaning filter seem to be the closest as far as water consumption and cycle time goes. But they still have that tepid wash temp. My go-to cycles is even fast, uses even less water and can still clean black, burnt-on pasta from an enamel pot with so much water pressure that the rear-fed top rack is pushed out of the tub when I open the door too quickly - even though I had a cast iron pan in there.</span>

 

<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: DE; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">Bottom line for me: American dryers - yay. American dishwashers - nay.</span>

 

[askolover]

My old faithful

Maytag washed a load last night, Normal cycle, 45 minutes from start to last drain out.  I never use dry cycle as the water is 140+ and just opening the door actually dries much better and faster than the fan only dry.  I cleaned my filter today (only found a couple pieces of string and a small piece of plastic) and did a rinse only just to make sure everything was back in working order, but I didn't have the lower rack in the machine...the pressure is still so strong it actually pushed past the door seal and dripped a little on the floor.  Put the bottom rack back in place so the center spray is diverted correctly and no more leak.  Pretty powerful for an almost 18 year-old machine.  I still prefer water force to clean my dishes.  If I wanted them sprinkled I'd just stick them outside in a rain storm, but that's just me.

 

[joeypete]

I can't believe how long some of your washers run! Even on it's longest cycle, Heavy wash, my new Frigidaire only takes about 2hours to complete and cleans very very well. If I run it on normal it is generally done in 1.5 hours and that includes sani-rinse and heated dry. :-/

 

[frigilux]

Malcolm--- I'm surprised at how quickly the printing on your Pyrex measuring cups is wearing off. I have some that are nearly 10 years old and the markings are only a bit faded compared to my newer ones. I cook a lot and mine go in the dishwasher several times a week.

 

[mark_wpduet]

Joeypete

my new Maytag doesn't run NEARLY as long as some of these folks dishwashers either. I use auto clean/ tough scrub, hi-temp, no dry because I open the door when it's done and it totals about 1.5 hrs. It gets hot too.

My Pyrex markings are still fine. That's weird! Never seen that before.

 

[maytagbear]

Decisions, decisions

We all make many decisions every day here in the industrialized world, most without a second (third, fourth) thought.

I want to know: When making an energy/environmental decision, do you think about your children? If you don't have children, do you consider your nieces, nephews, great-nieces and great-nephews??

I have two adult nieces, and my older niece and her husband have given me two great nephews. The older great-nephew was born in 2011, and the younger in December 2014.

I try to think about their world. My nieces' world and mine are essentially similar, but what will my great-nephews' world look like when they are my age (mid 50s?) Will the water be safe to drink? Will there be enough water? Will they be warm in the winter and cool in the summer? Will there be food?

If making sure my great-nephews' are safe and content means some inconvenience now, I'm for it!

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[norgeway]

As long

As I can get vintage...That is what I will use!!!the EPA can go jump and should be abolished,.....back when we let the coal smoke roll...we were the top producer of goods in the world.if I see smog..I see factories that are running, not gone to china.My appliances should be controlled by me, not the government.

 

[frigilux]

Hans, if you enjoy coal smoke and smog and the lung diseases/cancers that go with it, you'd love it in China! Another big draw: The lack of government regulation allows them to produce shoddy, unsafe goods and poisonous food for babies and animals. Frosting on the cake: Worker conditions are often poor! But their production is through the roof, by god.

If only we could abolish the EPA, FDA, and OSHA; then we'd be king of the hill again![this post was last edited: 2/9/2015-05:49]

 

[henene4]

I have been to China in November. Stayed a week in Shanghai with my exchange student and his family, and I only saw his father twice. And his grandfather had to work EVERY DAY of the week.
And after 2 weeks total in China, I was out of breath no matter what I did. So, if you want to abolish all climate protection systems, just move to China or spend a month there. Than we can talk again.

 

[rolls_rapide]

Pyrex measuring scale fading

A possible answer to that is the colour red.

Apparently, red pigmentations are not very stable and liable to fade through time. I think my mum had a Pyrex jug with a yellow scale which lasted for decades.

 

[jerrod6]

I have the Pyrex measuring cup that my mother bought in 1980. I wash it in a Miele DW even on the cheese cycle and the red lines are still there, so perhaps it is the quality of the red dye that is being used that has caused it fade over time. 1980 so thats about 35 years...maybe they aren't making red like they used to or my red is the toxic stuff.

 

[rolls_rapide]

"...maybe they aren't making red like they used to..

That could well be the answer - if experience of other 'modern' products is anything to go by.

For example: Cardboard isn't cardboard any more. It is now cheap flimsy paper!

 

[norgeway]

I dont want to live in China

I want to live in the USA of the 50s...hen we were the king of the hill!,,,You cant compete with all these regulations.

 

[norgeway]

But think..

EVERYONE makes shoddy goods..all you have to do is look at new appliances..all are flimsy and cheap ..compare say a 1960 or so GE Frigidaire or Westinghouse range with ANYTHING built today..there is no comparison.I really am not for more pollution, but I would love to see our factories running again, and be able to by American made jeans, shirts, sheets, and of course really good quality appliances,as I see it we cant compete with Chinas junk as long as the government has their finger in our affairs.

 

[pierreandreply4]

Well if you look at the dryer in my avatar that was my grandmother old dryer it lasted her 40 years she could of chose to have it repaired and have a new heating element install back in 2009 year she replace her dryer but try finding good long lasting washers or dryers like the inglis whirlpool of 1970 and earlyer time change its like thiss dishwasher if you look at this model i can say that these where powerhorse when it came to dirty dishes as the wash arm could scrape food particle and the water coming out the wash arms was strong

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

Think this Thread should be called "Modern Dish-WASHING&

Well, try deciding on TWO Brands of Dishwasher Detergent, FINISH and CASCADE (Three, counting a store's Private Brand)...!

 

Seems as though rather than giving you the best freedom of choice, a typical aisle will tell you WHAT TO BUY, & WHAT NOT TO BUY!... 'Cept for one train-wreck of an aisle that didn't seem to have anything 'cept making up my mind between two fragrances of Cascade tablets, Fresh Scent or Lemon, while the aisle mainly had liquids for washing dishes by hand....

 

Though my latest, the Finish Power-Ball tablets won, as I could get the most for the money!

 

I have nothing against pods, gel paks or tablets either... They are easy to measure & do get the dishes perfectly clean...  I'm happy w/ my built-in Maytag circa. 2009, too!

 

 

 

-- Dave

 

[frigilux]

Hans-- I understand where you're coming from---and I certainly don't think you should move to China. It has been disheartening to see American manufacturing evaporate over the past 20 years. I would argue it has been due more to the pittance workers are paid in other parts of the world than to government regulation---although regulations certainly are at play in the equation.

My question is this: What regulations do we abolish? Worker safety? Product safety? Pollution? Or do we start paying our workers $3.00 an hour? Maybe we need to make it harder for companies to make a profit in the US if they outsource. Tax them less, perhaps? The number of huge corporations paying almost nothing in taxes is already shocking.

Unfortunately, until other countries decide to protect their workers and the environment and pay a living wage, we won't regain much of a foothold in manufacturing.

 

[askolover]

I think...

if an American company moves its production overseas and eliminates American jobs, then they should be banned from selling the overseas made product in America!  Ya gotta hit 'em in the pocketbook to get their attention!

 

[norgeway]

I am very radical minded

On some things, we should ban all trade with any foreign country who commits human rights violations...such as China...in other words I support trade with Great Britain,Italy and Germany,Australia and New Zeeland...and of course Israel, and very few others, any country that supports or allows isis or other radical groups to operate in there country, would not get one bit of aid from us and their would be no buying from or selling to them...that would mean higher prices at the pump, but we could drill here for our own oil if the government would let us,Countrys like China who work people for nothing in terrible conditions would not get one dime of our aid or business....My really radical idea is..I could stop the terrorism...On 9-11, as soon as I found out what country was responsible...their capital city would be vaporized...no questions...the world would rant and rave, but you can bet other countries would think twice before letting terrorists operate there.

 

[pierreandreply4]

My 2 cent and toughs on the subject

if you look at a country like canada take for example the speed queen laundry washers and dryers they sell under the speed queen name in the us but in canada they are sold under the huebsch name but tecnicly they are the same brand the only excption is that under the huebsch brand name and in canada province of quebec we do not get models like the awn542 the model that is avalable for canadien market is the zwn432 under the huebsch name and with the new lines of models for members that bough for example the rear control front load model me the plan washer is a top load for my next set brand huebsch speed queen but my point is that any us made washer model should be made in or country eather its canada or the us witch are close and with the exchange accord usa canada and europe make sure that brands like bosch mile to neame these 2 brands should be sold as internatinal brands even if they are manufactured in europe