modern video technology reduced to an 8-track

[Cybrvanr]

A girl at work found an 8mm reel of film of when her parents were dating, and decided it would be a neat Christmas gift to transfer it to DVD for them. She was looking for a copy of the song "Summer Rain" by Johnny Rivers to use as a soundtrack, since it was her parents favorite song. Copying the 8mm reel over to DVD was no problem, I did that for her with my DVD recorder last week. Finding this song however proved to be more elusive!

We decided to try I-tunes first, since I've got it loaded on my laptop, and wouldn't mind having a copy of the song too, I can part with $1 for a good tune. Well, they had all sorts of classic Johnny Rivers music on the site, all good, but not that one. So, she headed out to best-buy to see if she could find a CD of the song...same thing...plenty of Johnny Rivers CD's, but none had the song on it. I had an idea. I remembered having an 8-track of the album "A touch of gold" So, I wonder if we could purchase that album online anywhere, so we tried Amazon.com and a few other places. The album is out of print, along with the song!

So, I got a bright idea, I'll just make an MP3 file of the song off the 8-track. The fidelity won't be hardly anywhere near as good as a CD, but then again, recording technology in 1968 wasn't all that good anyways. The 8-track sound will give character to what is already an old format anyways.

Last night, I dug the old 8-track deck out of the attic, and connected up to the audio input jack on the computer. The deck needed a little TLC, like a head cleaning and alignment, and a few other tweaks. Within a few minutes though, it was clicking along in all it's seventies glory. I then found the tape that had the coveted song on it. Had to go through 2 rounds of the tape before I got the record levels set up. I "massaged" the signal with a dynamic range expander and some other signal processing to the point that it sounded pretty good. I wasn't however able to get all the tape hiss out, but noticed that the 8-track deck doesn't sound all too bad really...a nice warm, analouge type sound that will go good with the 8mm images. I then made a WAV file out of the song, and copied it into the video file using my editing software. I also copied the song to a 256 bit rate MP3 too, and presented the DVD to her at work. She was totally delighted, and of course was wondering where in the heck I found a copy of the song she wanted since her search was fruitless. I kept it a secret...should I tell her about my stash of old 8-tracks and my deck?...she might laugh at me for sure if I tell her where it really came from

 

[petek]

does she even know what an 8 track is? The 8 track sound was actually superior to the first cassette stereos pre dolby. In a way they were a little easier to find your song as well.

 

[jmirawm]

finding songs

I use Limewire. Free file sharing. No spyware, no adware. You can find any song/video/image/just about anything you want. Limewire.com

 

[jasonl]

newsgroups

alt.binaries.mp3.*

You didn't hear it from me.

 

[kenwashesmonday]

Interesting project. I'm wondering what equipment/programs you used to transfer the film to DVD. Telecine can be a complicated subject.

cybrvanr wrote:
"recording technology in 1968 wasn't all that good anyways"

Have you heard clean records from the 50s/60s on a decent phonograph? Recording technology has changed/improved, but the benefits are rarely utilized. In fact, the way most current pop music is compressed to sound loud is atrocious.

We really haven't come that far.

Ken D.
(record and film collector)

 

[Versatronic]

A geek speaks

Actually, if you listen to a CD of say, Esquivel, which was recorded around 1960, it blows Dark Side Of The Moon away for stereo effect and clarity. By 1950, microphone technology was fully realized and hasn't been improved upon in any substantial way. People seek out classic microphones for recording purposes today. To this day, many major artists still record on 2 inch Ampex or other brand analog tape. And then sometimes the tracks get digitized for mixing purposes.

The recording technology in the 50s and beyond was fantastic. The mediums for delivering the recordings to the public was what was inferior to today, and some would even argue that point.

I just got done listening to Phil Spector's Christmas album on CD. Absolutly stunning. How about the Beach Boy's Pet Sounds? There was nothing wrong with how that album was recorded. And with going back to the masters and transferring to digital, you are at least getting closer to the original 2 inch tapes. If you've ever heard an original 2 inch analog recording and then hear the difference after taking a master down to quarter inch then sampling for digital even today, you would not believe the loss of sound quality between the 2 inch and CD. But it's a heck of a lot better delivery mechanism than we've had in the past.

And as Ken pointed out, in the past, they'd highly compress a single and often make a mono version soley for radio so that the song popped out of the speaker. But the album version would have a wide dynamic range so loudness ebbed and flowed with the intensity of the performance. Now, they master and compress everything at top level so that there really is no dynamic range at all and the music loses its emotion and humaness. So any gains in recording technology are basically for naught.

 

[Kevinpreston3]

Other points

I had the thrill of going to see "This is Cinerama" at the Hollywood Cinedome (which never had shown this film interestingly). Cinerama's image was projected by three projectors synched together--from film shot in a special camera with three lenses and three film packs. This was projected on a special curved screen and was HUGE. The sound for this was a seperate 35mm (think how wide that is) audio soundtrack that was synched to the three synched movies (follow me?). The sound blew me away in the theater. Now think of this in 1958. People think that just because things were analog, that they were scratchy and tinny sounding. As Versatronic and others mentioned, it was the cheap PLAYBACK mechanisms in house, not to mention things like pre-recorded tapes, especially cassettes, which would seem to be made to wear out.

In the 70s when we were kids, we NEVER bought the pre-recorded cassette of an album. We would get the LP, record it onto a TDK Super Avilyn cassette tape, and that second generation copy would sound better than the ones from the factory.

If you bought high end equipment for your home your home results were great...from companies like Marantz. My 1960 Motorola console rocks, as I have spoken about before.

Modern digital technology gives us surprisingly crisp sound, especially in small packages, but many would argue a soulless sound too.

 

[jasonl]

And here I am trying to use plugins for Pinnacle Studio to simulator Super 8 flicker and vinyl scratches. Now that would've been cool if I showed up with a Super 8 camera and started filming.

 

[frontaloadotmy]

jasonl

Start stockpiling 16mm film, I'll bring my Keystone
wind up to the next convention,better brush up on your nondigital audiofilmio techniques!!!!!

 

[tolivac]

1950 recording

fortunately some of that equipment is being restored and preserved-the Equipment used to make Mercurys "Living presence" stereo recordings and the gear for RCA's "Living Stereo"I have worked on Ampex recorders just like what was used in these recordings--superb machines.The outfit I work for (govt agency) used Ampex 300 machines until into the late 90's.Same with ampex 350 and Scully 275,280.The consoles used in both Mercury and RCA recordings were custom built 3 and 4 channel units-built even before stereo recordings were made to the public.the recordings were mono or stereo.Yes-recording studios do have a "wardrobe" of microphones-Some tailored for vocals(Neunman,Seinnheiser) and other for recording instruments.The ones for instruments have to have high overload capacity-and the mic console preamps they are plugged into.Vacuum tube Mic preamps still best for this.They have the best OL capacity.I disagree that the mediums for releaseing recorded sound are inferior to CD'sListen to a vintage RCA,Mercury Living Stereo or Living Presence record on a good Hi-Fi and you will see what I mean.It will blow away a CD anytime.However the SACD recordings of RCA Living Stereo recordings are truely superb-and they used the 3 channel mix to match the RCA console!The early Motion picture soundtracks that used MAGNETIC soundtracks were superb-sometimes even better than Dolby Digital or DTS.Cinerama used them and 70MM film used it.Yes this was in the 1950's as well.And keep in mind 4 channel movie soundtracks were introduced in 1939 with Walt Disneys movie "Fantasia"This had a 4 track optical film player synced to the projector.Recording technology did make advances-but not BETTER-early solid state recording consoles and tape machine R/P amps were TERRIBLE-and to think many of those studios replaced their superb tube consoles and recorders with the early solid state "dreck"That is the big reason the early equipment is making a comeback.Its not just "Audiophiles" even regular listenrs like it.Some new digital recorders even have vacuum tube record and play preamps ahead of their digital converters.the sound is improved.also I have found AM transmitters that are tube sound better than all solid state units.Proved it to many station managers-and the tube ones can be LOUDER-something the managers and PD's like.Nothing like a Doherty Continental 50Kw AM to give good sound to AM radios out there-those transmitters have a frequency response of 15Hz-to 15Khz.Best I have ever seen.Installed one of those in a stations and serviced others-one of the best transmitters made-sadly they aren't made anymore.to hear even "lowly" AM on a wideband receiver the sound quality is surprizing.

 

[jasonl]

AM Stereo

Does anyone here remember "AM Stereo"? I've never listened to it myself and wondered, is this the staticy AM sound only in stereo or was there a real difference?

 

[swestoyz]

AM Stereo -

Jason, my '95 Deville's head unit includes an AM Stereo option. We locally have non-talk station (1330) that happens to broadcast in AM Stereo as well, and the hits sound great! There are times you think you're listening to an FM station. I've found a few talk radio stations that have top 40 music as a segway from the commercials - and they sound great as well.

Ben

 

[Kevinpreston3]

Vintage 8mm Fun

I did alot of filmmaking in Super 8mm format (not anything particularly good!). The best thing I have is a Super 8mm sound film that I shot of the 1981 Air Show at El Toro, with a Harrier Jump Jet flying around in hover about 50 yards away and a big cargo plane taking off with JATO.

Currently I am working with REGULAR 8mm. This was the old pre-super 8 stuff. I am recording sound at the same time then resynching sound and image on my computer. This would make it ultra rare synchronous Regular 8mm!

I have a number of Bolex cameras that are very solid and substantial...I will be posting samples on my website when I get them back from developing.

 

[tolivac]

Yes,I remember AM stereo-what killed it was the decision on a format.Stations trying to use it were using either the Kahn system,The Harris system,or the Motorola system.The Harris and Motorola were compatible with each other.On some AM stereo radios-there was a selector to allow you to select the right system so you could hear the broadcast.I have a Sony stereo AM-FM walkman radio.At the time I got it-WMAL-AM in WASH DC was running stereo.sounded almost as good as the FM.Now some of the other folks who work as contract engineers for radio stations say they have had the AM stereo transmitter exciters given to them!-The stations went back to mono and didn't want to bother with the stereo.I tried it breifly with the Continental 50Kw 317Cand it worked great.You sue the stereo exciter in place of the transmitters original oscillator stage.The AM stereo generator provides the carrier signal for the transmitter and the stereo encoding.Now-sadly the AM stereo generators languish in the stations junkpiles.They also thought not enough listners got stereo radios to make persuing it further worthwhile-Sad-would have been a good shot in the arm for AM-make it more competitive with FM.

 

[cadman]

I'm with Swestoyz on this one, seeing as I'm in the same area, it can be a real treat to tune into 1330. My '89 Troféo had the decoder as well as my current Allanté and it sounds amazing to tune in, pause for the system to lock-in, and see the indicator displayed. This is one thing I don't see on car radios anymore. Somewhere on the net were modifications you could make to a popular model Sony boombox and take AM stereo with you, created by a group of devoted enthusiasts. Cory

 

[petek]

There are still a few AM stations here broadcasting AM stereo. I only have a small Sony clock radio that picks up AM stereo but it does sound good for what it is. I thought I remember hearing that if you took two AM radios and tuned one just off frequency you'd be able to create the AM stero signal? is that true?

 

[tolivac]

Petek:I beleive that if the station was using the "Kahn" system you could use two radios to receive the program in stereo.The Kahn system was the least used.the station gave the exciter to a good freind of mine-He collects old radio broadcast equipment.He has a collection of 1Kw and 5Kw transmitters in his garage-He runs the 1Kw ones on occasion-into a dummy load-1000W AM broadcast transmitters can even be run off a 30A220V dryer outlet.They draw 30A.One station I dealt with had their 1Kw transmitters plugged into dryer-30A 220V outlets in their transmitter building.The 5K ones need 3 phase power to run.I don't know of any stations in the US still using AM stereo.This fellow I know even has a tranmsitter from one of the Wash DC stations-A Collins 21-that is in IMMACULATE shape-a 250W rig.The chrome and glass veiwing windows are beautiful.Loved looking at the rig when I was servicing another stations transmitters in the same building-they were diplexed onto the same tower.Thats common in some areas-esp big cities-land space for transmitter sites is scarce and expensive.AM sites require a lot of land.The lower the frequency on the dial-the more land space he needs for tower spacing in directional systems.also the land is needed for the ground system.When you look at an AM transmitter site-its kinda like an iceberg-you see the towers rising from the site-but all that 10Ga copper wire and ground sheets(under the bases of towers)the 10Ga "radials" that are connected to the copper sheets.I have worked on these-a lot of work.Putting them in is no picinic-and repairs are worse.You have to dig up the bad area!!

 

[petek]

Now here's a question, if an AM stereo station is webcasting would that come out your pc in stereo?

 

[jasonl]

Webcast

You'd get a hi-fi stereo (depends on bitrate,etc.) stream of whatever the station is broadcasting. This is a line out from the mixing board so it's captured before it's converted into radio waves.