It is my understanding that quality of control boards in appliances are largely something manufactures dictate or demand. As with everything else higher quality and so forth will cost more, and that factors into overall price of appliance.
More Woes With Whirlpool 6620 Front-loading Washer: 2nd Machine Also A Dud
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Durability of any part - both mechanical and electrical - can usually be calculated down to a very precise margin.
Not an electrical engineer, but for bearings at least it's basically a 101-class thing to calculate their lifetime.
Down to thousands of hours exact...
Though usually parts are rarely the price issue, manufacturing tight tolerances is (for example, shafts for washers in theory have to be produced to a very tight tolerance spec for the seals protecting the bearings to last).
Manhours are expensive aswell, so software testing is often cut short (thus the many glitches in PCBs).
And it usually isn't that terribly much cheaper to build something less durable.
Reason they can cut margins short and make products cheap is knowing they will make another sale in a certain time period.
Cover cost and a few percent, that's that.
And once you control a certain percentage of a market, you don't really bother about loosing customers.
It's rare that a customer changes his price range for a certain good because of a bad experience, and when there are only a few companies in your target range, they will loose as many customers to you as you loose to them.
And once again, the US market is in an obscene state since the early 2000s.
Comparing what you pay for a washer today to even the early 2000s is depressing.
The 6620 retails at 1000$.
That's 650$ in 2000, 200$ in 1975 or 90$ in 1950.
In 2000, the Neptune's where smaller, less featured and less attractive overall.
And they were 1000$ IIRC.
In 1975, 200$ might have gotten you a very BOL TL.
A good washer might have been 400$?
And 90$ in 1950 wouldn't have gotten you an automatic at all I'd guess.
And now consider the 6620 is midrange?
You can get a cheap washer for 300$ with the same internals as a 1000$ TL.
Same stepping as above, that is 200$, 60$ and 30$ respectively.
Not blaming consumers or manufacturers or anyone in that chain, the market is what it is, but you just get what you pay for.
I'd be ready to almost guarantee you that if you spend the equivalent of 300$ in the 50s today (3300$) on a washer alone, you'd probably be still using it in 30 years.
Not an electrical engineer, but for bearings at least it's basically a 101-class thing to calculate their lifetime.
Down to thousands of hours exact...
Though usually parts are rarely the price issue, manufacturing tight tolerances is (for example, shafts for washers in theory have to be produced to a very tight tolerance spec for the seals protecting the bearings to last).
Manhours are expensive aswell, so software testing is often cut short (thus the many glitches in PCBs).
And it usually isn't that terribly much cheaper to build something less durable.
Reason they can cut margins short and make products cheap is knowing they will make another sale in a certain time period.
Cover cost and a few percent, that's that.
And once you control a certain percentage of a market, you don't really bother about loosing customers.
It's rare that a customer changes his price range for a certain good because of a bad experience, and when there are only a few companies in your target range, they will loose as many customers to you as you loose to them.
And once again, the US market is in an obscene state since the early 2000s.
Comparing what you pay for a washer today to even the early 2000s is depressing.
The 6620 retails at 1000$.
That's 650$ in 2000, 200$ in 1975 or 90$ in 1950.
In 2000, the Neptune's where smaller, less featured and less attractive overall.
And they were 1000$ IIRC.
In 1975, 200$ might have gotten you a very BOL TL.
A good washer might have been 400$?
And 90$ in 1950 wouldn't have gotten you an automatic at all I'd guess.
And now consider the 6620 is midrange?
You can get a cheap washer for 300$ with the same internals as a 1000$ TL.
Same stepping as above, that is 200$, 60$ and 30$ respectively.
Not blaming consumers or manufacturers or anyone in that chain, the market is what it is, but you just get what you pay for.
I'd be ready to almost guarantee you that if you spend the equivalent of 300$ in the 50s today (3300$) on a washer alone, you'd probably be still using it in 30 years.
pierreandreply4
Well-known member
3 year old ge dishwasher
control board broke on a 3 year old ge dishwasher that was purchuse in 2016 was replace in 2020 with a kitchenaid dishwasher i think the biggest problem these days are appliances are made to brake early to force there replacement makes me question why they did not modernise appliances but keep making them to last?
control board broke on a 3 year old ge dishwasher that was purchuse in 2016 was replace in 2020 with a kitchenaid dishwasher i think the biggest problem these days are appliances are made to brake early to force there replacement makes me question why they did not modernise appliances but keep making them to last?
Built to last
Began going by the boards when huge demand from baby boom generation began to go bust, and appliance makers were force to rely increasingly on new home sales plus replacement for major part of durable white goods sales.
If one could find a new or even used timer/programmer my Miele W1070 would still keep on going, this even it being > 20 years old as it is. But compared to more modern offerings it is not nearly as advanced, so there's a trade off.
Right to repair movement in USA is gaining steam, but don't think it will ever truly happen. Whirlpool and other big makers of appliances, electronics and other consumer goods have too much invested in status quo.
Personally feel washing machine or dishwasher life cycle should factor into energy ratings. It cost money to make ship to warehouse or whatever, then to customers home new appliances. It also uses resources, and that goes for removing and disposing of broken things as well.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/23/climate/right-to-repair.html
Began going by the boards when huge demand from baby boom generation began to go bust, and appliance makers were force to rely increasingly on new home sales plus replacement for major part of durable white goods sales.
If one could find a new or even used timer/programmer my Miele W1070 would still keep on going, this even it being > 20 years old as it is. But compared to more modern offerings it is not nearly as advanced, so there's a trade off.
Right to repair movement in USA is gaining steam, but don't think it will ever truly happen. Whirlpool and other big makers of appliances, electronics and other consumer goods have too much invested in status quo.
Personally feel washing machine or dishwasher life cycle should factor into energy ratings. It cost money to make ship to warehouse or whatever, then to customers home new appliances. It also uses resources, and that goes for removing and disposing of broken things as well.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/23/climate/right-to-repair.html
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
definitely
appliance life cycle should be included in energy ratings. Isn't it interesting that it's not?
appliance life cycle should be included in energy ratings. Isn't it interesting that it's not?
The thing is that lifetime testing would have to be done standardized and by an external party.
And our consumer testing organisation shortened lifetime testing cause it got to expensive and to resource intensive to do.
Our new Eco-legislation requires manufacturers to disclose repair manuals to end users and/or technicians for free and for parts to be available for 10 years after the last unit of a certain model has been sold.
That solves some of the issues, but parts remain just prohibitively expensive.
And our consumer testing organisation shortened lifetime testing cause it got to expensive and to resource intensive to do.
Our new Eco-legislation requires manufacturers to disclose repair manuals to end users and/or technicians for free and for parts to be available for 10 years after the last unit of a certain model has been sold.
That solves some of the issues, but parts remain just prohibitively expensive.
Same control board on a 5620...
is the machine I have had for about 2 years...I had the first one replaced due to the same issue this one has, water temperature...I could not get a hot wash on the Normal cycle, always cold...I mostly use a Towels/Quick with Heavy Soil and Extra Rinse, hot wash, about 30 minutes...if I want extended wash, I add the PreSoak, for an additional 15 minutes of tumble/soak...for a longer cycle, larger loads, I use Delicates/Wrinkle Control with Light Soil and Extra Rinse, hot wash, about an hour...I've found I can get a "hot" wash on either of these cycles...with all these "WHAT To Wash/HOW To Wash" marketing options, the washer does have its idiosyncrasies, but uses sufficient water, and does a good job.
is the machine I have had for about 2 years...I had the first one replaced due to the same issue this one has, water temperature...I could not get a hot wash on the Normal cycle, always cold...I mostly use a Towels/Quick with Heavy Soil and Extra Rinse, hot wash, about 30 minutes...if I want extended wash, I add the PreSoak, for an additional 15 minutes of tumble/soak...for a longer cycle, larger loads, I use Delicates/Wrinkle Control with Light Soil and Extra Rinse, hot wash, about an hour...I've found I can get a "hot" wash on either of these cycles...with all these "WHAT To Wash/HOW To Wash" marketing options, the washer does have its idiosyncrasies, but uses sufficient water, and does a good job.
So Blowe's...
replaced the entire machine...it has the same oddities as the first...I have just learned which cycles allow a hot wash, and create my own special programs...
replaced the entire machine...it has the same oddities as the first...I have just learned which cycles allow a hot wash, and create my own special programs...
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
It's interesting that
there are hardly any videos of this machine in operation on YouTube. I think I've found 2 (maybe 3) and I've only found ONE Maytag in operation.
anyway - the Whirlpool I saw was washing a single pillow on the bulky cycle, and, even though it has recirculation, I couldn't believe how little water it used ON THE BULKY cycle.
That said, the recirculation was a life saver, so less water isn't as big of an issue as it would be without recirculation. But when you said "sufficient water" I wasn't sure what you meant....but I didn't see sufficient water (at least on the cycles on saw on YouTube. But you have this machine, I don't. So you would know.
there are hardly any videos of this machine in operation on YouTube. I think I've found 2 (maybe 3) and I've only found ONE Maytag in operation.
anyway - the Whirlpool I saw was washing a single pillow on the bulky cycle, and, even though it has recirculation, I couldn't believe how little water it used ON THE BULKY cycle.
That said, the recirculation was a life saver, so less water isn't as big of an issue as it would be without recirculation. But when you said "sufficient water" I wasn't sure what you meant....but I didn't see sufficient water (at least on the cycles on saw on YouTube. But you have this machine, I don't. So you would know.
This will fix those problems.
https://www.automaticwasher.org/TD/AWJPEG/VINTAGE/2009/4-16-2009-15-01-47--geoffdelp.jpg
https://www.automaticwasher.org/TD/AWJPEG/VINTAGE/2009/4-16-2009-15-01-47--geoffdelp.jpg
Mark, check out the YouTube channel by Hugo Fiori, he has a some videos of the Whirlpool as well as internal shots.
https://youtube.com/c/HugoFiori
https://youtube.com/c/HugoFiori
Alex, thank you for the link and source for more examples, but my problem with Hugo's videos is that those machines are in another country and I'm not sure if it would be realistic comparison given the energy standards and programming for the washer in that country is different than in the US
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
Yep
Euro Machines vs USA = totally different. Frankly, I think the Euro machines are much much MUCH better...at least the ones I've seen
Euro Machines vs USA = totally different. Frankly, I think the Euro machines are much much MUCH better...at least the ones I've seen
jerrod_six
Well-known member
I saw one video of this machine and perhaps it was the same one that Mark saw since there was one pillow in the load also. What I noticed was that as soon as the recirculation spray started in the rinse, the spray water was full of suds and they landed right on top of the pillow.
What you wash, how to wash. I hope you can avoid having to go through this process and just select a cycle and start a load. If you already know how to wash why bother with this.
What you wash, how to wash. I hope you can avoid having to go through this process and just select a cycle and start a load. If you already know how to wash why bother with this.
One thing I wonder
Has anybody brought a European style American washing machine into Europe and vice versa (bringing a European machine that’s proper European into the US
Has anybody brought a European style American washing machine into Europe and vice versa (bringing a European machine that’s proper European into the US
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
The pillow
I remember that too....
I'm sure the whirlpool is fine I just don't like the current models at all personally. I like the Maytag better with the square door.......but SQ and LG are definitely my favorite as of now, but only the models that have turbo wash....and I think one model of the SQ FL now has a heater if you can believe that
And the GE fresh vent FL's - I watched a few videos of those and the water usage (this is on bulky, mind you) was unbelievably low. I felt like the LG's look like a swimming pool in comparison.
I still want to know what it's gonna take for manufacturers to put a "more water" button on all their FL washers. Take the GE, the lower end model does have a more water button, right? But the model above that DOES NOT? Now why? If someone wants the model with a heater, they can't get a more water button...I don't get what's running through some of these manufacturers minds
I remember that too....
I'm sure the whirlpool is fine I just don't like the current models at all personally. I like the Maytag better with the square door.......but SQ and LG are definitely my favorite as of now, but only the models that have turbo wash....and I think one model of the SQ FL now has a heater if you can believe that
And the GE fresh vent FL's - I watched a few videos of those and the water usage (this is on bulky, mind you) was unbelievably low. I felt like the LG's look like a swimming pool in comparison.
I still want to know what it's gonna take for manufacturers to put a "more water" button on all their FL washers. Take the GE, the lower end model does have a more water button, right? But the model above that DOES NOT? Now why? If someone wants the model with a heater, they can't get a more water button...I don't get what's running through some of these manufacturers minds
Hugo's video looks like the same operation my 6620 had. Whirlpool is still a good bet.
One SQ model has a heater
Mark what has led you to believe there is a Speed Queen model with a heater?
Mark what has led you to believe there is a Speed Queen model with a heater?
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