My Early Maytag A806 Rework Progress

[d-jones]

Dan

Very interesting that it’s the older style lint filter screen with the later style plastic top instead of stainless. How is that even possible? As for the groove pin, I found a company that said they had ten in stock. I ordered four. I’ll let you know when they show up. I spoke to the machinist today and took the new pinion gear and shaft to him. Because of your warning that I read elsewhere on the blog I had him check the fit of the new shaft against the old bearings. He feels the top bearing gives the shaft a little too much play, so he’s going to machine a new one and install it.[this post was last edited: 9/1/2022-13:59]

 

[qsd-dan]

I never saw one of these older filters without the chrome ring. I'm guessing the glue came off at some point or it was purposely removed.

Glad you found some of those grove pins, they're so difficult to find now. I came across some while cleaning and organizing a few weeks back, that's why I asked. Were you able to find a new pinion gear?

 

[d-jones]

New Pinion Gear

I found several of them. Fortunately I only need one......for now. The new gear is a little different from the one that came off in that it's cut like a gear from end to end having no smaller diameter smooth portion where the groove pin goes. Probably just a simplification to reduce cost. Another thing I have a question about is the o-ring seal (part number 210690). Per the parts manual and the service manual that o-ring sits beneath the shoulder on the agitator shaft and rests between a chamfer on the center plate bushing and the collar on the shaft. I see no evidence of a chamfer on the center plate bushing and no o-ring was present when disassembled. If the o-ring broke and went away would that steel shoulder on the agitator shaft be able to wear through the chamfer on that bushing? [this post was last edited: 9/1/2022-16:11]

 

[combo52]

Early 06 MT Lint Filters

All had the light colored plastic filter area, only the 906 & 806 filters had the SS top section.

 

John L.

 

[d-jones]

Well that explains it. Thanks John. It never occurred to me that it was used on a lower model.

 

[d-jones]

Does no one have an answer to the question in reply 92?

In addition to the chamfer question, how is the o-ring kept lubed? Its part number is still called out in the A806 parts manual, so I feel like it should be there. But as I said, it was missing from mine and the top bushing doesn't match the service manual description.

 

[qsd-dan]

The revised agitator shaft with chamfer design and o-ring came later on in production. I have a "Let's Talk Service" article about it somewhere around here.

 

[d-jones]

That's odd

It's clearly described in my manual for the earlier models, like the A700 and A702. It's also listed in the A806 parts manual for series 00. Isn't series 00 the earliest variant?

 

[lowefficiency]

>> I tried repeatedly to get the groove pin out of the steel pinion gear and
>> failed, so a machine shop finally removed it for me.

They are just as difficult to get back in as well.

When we rebuilt the transmission for our A308, we had two "groov pins" on hand - and at that time, no others were available anywhere. The first pin actually mushroomed from the force when attempting to hammer it in, making it unusable. For the second one, we chucked it in a drill press and filed the diameter down before installation, and it was still a bear to install.

 

[d-jones]

Dave

Thankfully I have a machine shop in the local area that’ll install it for me. I don’t care to try doing it myself.

 

[qsd-dan]

They are just as difficult to get back in as well.

The pre '75's are easy, just use a vice.

You can still use a vice on the post '74's full length gear but must use a sacrificial socket on the opposite side of the pin. Once the pin is close to flush, use a grade 8 bolt of the same size to push it further into the hole.

You need a beefy vice to accomplish it though. I blew up a 70 year old smaller vice pushing the pin out.

 

[good-shepherd]

pin actually mushroomed from the force

The gear should've first been heated with a propane torch,, thats likely how it was installed at the factory.

Same way piston wrist pins are installed on connecting rods.

 

[d-jones]

Interesting idea, Douglas

I'll bounce that off the machinist when he gets to that point. Right now he has all of the parts and will be machining a new upper agitator shaft bushing/bearing for the upper transmission housing. There was noticeable play there versus the lower one. Once the steel pinion gear was removed and he got the agitator shaft out a fair amount of corrosion was found between its two bearing journals. That corrosion had to be forced past the upper shaft bearing and may very well have done additional damage to it in the process.

 

As a side note, I have a question for anyone with knowledge on the subject. There was no wicking material between the two bearings in the upper housing. Is it worth installing some? If yes, what would be the best material to use? If no, what's the best lube to apply to those bearings upon reassembly to keep it going for another twenty years? I'll need to deal with this issue soon.

[this post was last edited: 9/14/2022-19:42]

 

[combo52]

Wicking between the agitator shaft bearings?

 

I have thought about this since I read your post the other day and can not decide whether it would help or not. On one hand it might keep the upper bearing better lubricated but on the other hand if just a few drops of moisture get past the top bearing and seal it might hold the moisture in that area and harm the shaft and bearing sooner.

 

When you look at the entire design of a MT helical drive transmission it is really amazing they worked as well as they did.

 

Having an oil seal at the bottom of the input shaft where metal dust will cause seal wear is never a good idea, then having no oil delivery to the top agitator shaft bearing and no vent in the transmission so any moisture can evaporate out.

 

While many other washer designs also had significant design problems as well this all really goes to show how low stressed a washers driveline is, you certainly could never design airplanes this crudely and have then stay in the air very long.

 

John L.

 

[qsd-dan]

Maytag installed a wicking pad between both sleeve bearings in the pre '66 washers. I have a couple of them somewhere, I'll see if I can find one and take a picture. I faintly remember their instructions recommending to clean them in solvent and re-lube with Maytag transmission oil during a rebuild.

You can see a picture in the following thread at Reply #21.

https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?22830

 

[qsd-dan]

"Having an oil seal at the bottom of the input shaft where metal dust will cause seal wear is never a good idea"

If there's metal filings circulating through the transmission, a leaking lower o-ring seal will be the least of ones problems.

"Then having no oil delivery to the top agitator shaft bearing"

Have you ever been inside one of these transmissions? There's an oil gallery drilled into the upper housing that lubes the upper sleeve bearing during the spin cycle.

"And no vent in the transmission so any moisture can evaporate out."

AMP models had a vent but they were deleted for the helical models. I don't think one is really needed though. Any water intrusion inside the transmission is from a bad stem/boot/A4298 seal. A vent isn't going to remedy that problem.

 

[d-jones]

Dan and John

Thanks for your comments, though I notice both of you shied away from making a recommendation. The comment about the oil gallery raises a question in my mind. During the spin cycle, wouldn't the oil in the transmission be flung to the outer edges by centrifugal force, away from the agitator shaft and the oil gallery? Is this gallery small enough that capillary pull is drawing the oil up instead? The transmission is at the machine shop at the moment so I can't have a look at it, and I don't recall noticing the gallery before. But the mention of it is intriguing to say the least. If I were to install a wicking pad, what material would be most suited for it? I'm considering a bit of industrial wool felt.

 

[qsd-dan]

I don't recall noticing the gallery before.

Here's a picture of the upper housing from Brian's transmission rebuild thread with the oil gallery at the 12 o'clock position https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?38714

I'm not sure what the proper wicking material is but I recall the one Maytag sourced was very tightly wound and had an almost leather feel to it. I'll see if I can locate it out and reply with dimensions.

 

[d-jones]

I got the upper half of the transmission back from the machine shop this afternoon, so I need to consider which oil to use in it. So far I'm considering the oil made by Maytag for these transmissions. It's still available but getting harder to find. Most likely the stuff I'm finding is new old stock. The other option is 75/90 Royal Purple synthetic gear oil. Dan mentioned using this in another thread and it's readily available. Any thoughts?

Another question - The machine shop used high tensile brass to make the new bearings. Based on the color of the old ones I suspect they're bronze. High tensile brass is frequently used for bushings/bearings, but if the originals are bronze I wonder if brass will hold up.

 

[qsd-dan]

The choice of oil comes down to the temps the machine will be operating at. If it's inside the house, you can use Maytag transmission oil for best overall results. If it will be operating in the garage at your location, you'll want to use a slightly thinner oil for the winter months.

 

[good-shepherd]

which oil to use in it.

I would use the genuine Maytag oil.

If that can't be found use Sta-Lube 85-90w GL-4 gear oil.