supremewhirlpol
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- Mar 25, 2009
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Wow sudsman!! You have an awesome job. Yeh, I want one of those machines too.
My New Laundry Plant
- Thread starter sudsman
- Start date
laundrynut
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 7, 2009
- Messages
- 45
"Safer" Commercial Laundry Products
If one were to persevere far enough, safe commercial laundry products can be found and purchased via an on-line janitorial supplier. For example: I’ve ordered Ecolab Brite White (although it’s on backorder and I've yet to audition it). It is a pre-measured powder, designed for residential type TL’s. I've also found Ecolab “Clearly Soft” online, but it’s $249 for a 5-gallon pail. They can keep it. Zep has built detergents and other commercial laundry products, some of which are designed for home-style, small machines. I've tried Zep “Vantio” (powder) which is a built detergent that has a (1% solution) 12.3 - 12.7 pH. And it’s designed specifically for residential style machines. Another is Zep “Zeplift,” an enzyme-based, powdered detergent. One of the best I've tried is Colgate Palmolive’s “Dynamo” (thick, blue liquid). It has (what they call) “special builders” but is not as caustic as some detergents with high concentrations of alkalies. It’s safer to use and still gets everything clean, including hair-dye-stained colored towels. I’m still working on finding a softener that’s to my liking. I’m very picky... Hate Downey, Snuggle, etc. And some of the dryer sheets can block your dryer’s air flow.
I can understand why commercial distributors keep a tight leash on to whom they sell products. Some of that stuff can really mess up your laundry and equipment if not used correctly (as already stated by launderess), not to mention: cause physical harm to the user. Also, there are a lot of DOT restrictions on transporting the really toxic laundry products. Give the UPS man a break... not an ‘Alkaline Break’.. LOL.
One more thing I thought of: Some of the commercial products have a limited shelf life. Take for instance, sour: (and sudsman, correct me if I’m wrong) It contains phosphoric acid, so it is dangerous if used incorrectly and without the proper protection, and probably comes only in large quantities, so it would probably expire before you could ever use it up at home.
I've been doing some homework on this, but I'm sure the pro's can elaborate with a lot more accuracy and experience, which I’d love to hear. I don’t want to sound like the know-it-all newcomer to the forum. It may be strange, but I just find the whole industry (machines and products) to be very interesting and enjoy reading about everyone’s cool machines and experiences. Low suds and high spins to everyone! Wash On! (corny, I know) Ha!
If one were to persevere far enough, safe commercial laundry products can be found and purchased via an on-line janitorial supplier. For example: I’ve ordered Ecolab Brite White (although it’s on backorder and I've yet to audition it). It is a pre-measured powder, designed for residential type TL’s. I've also found Ecolab “Clearly Soft” online, but it’s $249 for a 5-gallon pail. They can keep it. Zep has built detergents and other commercial laundry products, some of which are designed for home-style, small machines. I've tried Zep “Vantio” (powder) which is a built detergent that has a (1% solution) 12.3 - 12.7 pH. And it’s designed specifically for residential style machines. Another is Zep “Zeplift,” an enzyme-based, powdered detergent. One of the best I've tried is Colgate Palmolive’s “Dynamo” (thick, blue liquid). It has (what they call) “special builders” but is not as caustic as some detergents with high concentrations of alkalies. It’s safer to use and still gets everything clean, including hair-dye-stained colored towels. I’m still working on finding a softener that’s to my liking. I’m very picky... Hate Downey, Snuggle, etc. And some of the dryer sheets can block your dryer’s air flow.
I can understand why commercial distributors keep a tight leash on to whom they sell products. Some of that stuff can really mess up your laundry and equipment if not used correctly (as already stated by launderess), not to mention: cause physical harm to the user. Also, there are a lot of DOT restrictions on transporting the really toxic laundry products. Give the UPS man a break... not an ‘Alkaline Break’.. LOL.
One more thing I thought of: Some of the commercial products have a limited shelf life. Take for instance, sour: (and sudsman, correct me if I’m wrong) It contains phosphoric acid, so it is dangerous if used incorrectly and without the proper protection, and probably comes only in large quantities, so it would probably expire before you could ever use it up at home.
I've been doing some homework on this, but I'm sure the pro's can elaborate with a lot more accuracy and experience, which I’d love to hear. I don’t want to sound like the know-it-all newcomer to the forum. It may be strange, but I just find the whole industry (machines and products) to be very interesting and enjoy reading about everyone’s cool machines and experiences. Low suds and high spins to everyone! Wash On! (corny, I know) Ha!
Answers
Pete The dryers are ADC They make the best going, Ramco claims to built their own but I dont beleive it for min. Having lunch with one of their Servie men tomorrow and going to find out for sure then.
Favorit: A good laundry manager uses what ever formula he wants. I use different formulas at both plants. Machines are different and supplies are different soil contents are different.. what works one place will not another.
Laundry Nut:
Sours are made of a lot of different products now.
My favorite is Raylene sour. IT has a brightner and blueing in it and is a dry sour made with Ammonium Silica Fluoride
Ecolab dry sour also has a brightner and is good but I prefer a sour with a blueing. Just a old laundry managers thing. Have and do use Clearly Soft some on the Gowns,our price is only 98.00 but have problems with it on the ironer. Ecolab gives deep discounts to "buying groups" other wise you get it up the A###. The same with most of them. AutoChlor claims they will NOT sell to the public but I have seen some on ebay..and in hotel supply catalouges.
Thanks to all four the nice comments I needed it at this time in my life have been thru a lot in the last 2 mons.. thanks to all..
ecola
Pete The dryers are ADC They make the best going, Ramco claims to built their own but I dont beleive it for min. Having lunch with one of their Servie men tomorrow and going to find out for sure then.
Favorit: A good laundry manager uses what ever formula he wants. I use different formulas at both plants. Machines are different and supplies are different soil contents are different.. what works one place will not another.
Laundry Nut:
Sours are made of a lot of different products now.
My favorite is Raylene sour. IT has a brightner and blueing in it and is a dry sour made with Ammonium Silica Fluoride
Ecolab dry sour also has a brightner and is good but I prefer a sour with a blueing. Just a old laundry managers thing. Have and do use Clearly Soft some on the Gowns,our price is only 98.00 but have problems with it on the ironer. Ecolab gives deep discounts to "buying groups" other wise you get it up the A###. The same with most of them. AutoChlor claims they will NOT sell to the public but I have seen some on ebay..and in hotel supply catalouges.
Thanks to all four the nice comments I needed it at this time in my life have been thru a lot in the last 2 mons.. thanks to all..
ecola
revvinkevin
Well-known member
More questions.......
HI Lee,
Thank you for all the info, this is very interesting! I'd love to come hang out and watch everything for a few hours!
I have questions about the wash program you listed above. Ready? Here we go!
>>Flush 3 Min Split hi level 22"
Is this sort of like a "pre-wash" W/O detergent? If not, what is the purpose? What is the "split", is that the water temp?
>>Wash 10 Min Hot lo level 12"
It sounds like there are two water level settings, or is that also adjustable?
What is >> Carry/Over?
Bleach, rinse, rinse, extract, sour, etc….
>> Extract lo 1 min, Sour/Soft 5 min split lo level 12 , Final extract Hi 6 mins
If the HIGH extract is 1200 RPM, what is the LO extract speed and are these adjustable as well?
Also, I would assume there is at least a "drain" between the flush, wash, bleach, carry/over, rinse, rinse, etc. Is there an extract also or only a drain?
20 years ago I worked briefly at a dry cleaners (with the plant in house) and they had bought a 50 lb Unimac for their shirt laundry work. I noticed this machine had 4 speeds (wash, drain/distribute, low and then high speed extract). It also had two different motors on the same drive belt. Are any of these washers like this (2 motors)?
Would it be possible to capture one of the "285" washers on video (for the sound) when going into final extract?
Thanks again!
Kevin
HI Lee,
Thank you for all the info, this is very interesting! I'd love to come hang out and watch everything for a few hours!
I have questions about the wash program you listed above. Ready? Here we go!
>>Flush 3 Min Split hi level 22"
Is this sort of like a "pre-wash" W/O detergent? If not, what is the purpose? What is the "split", is that the water temp?
>>Wash 10 Min Hot lo level 12"
It sounds like there are two water level settings, or is that also adjustable?
What is >> Carry/Over?
Bleach, rinse, rinse, extract, sour, etc….
>> Extract lo 1 min, Sour/Soft 5 min split lo level 12 , Final extract Hi 6 mins
If the HIGH extract is 1200 RPM, what is the LO extract speed and are these adjustable as well?
Also, I would assume there is at least a "drain" between the flush, wash, bleach, carry/over, rinse, rinse, etc. Is there an extract also or only a drain?
20 years ago I worked briefly at a dry cleaners (with the plant in house) and they had bought a 50 lb Unimac for their shirt laundry work. I noticed this machine had 4 speeds (wash, drain/distribute, low and then high speed extract). It also had two different motors on the same drive belt. Are any of these washers like this (2 motors)?
Would it be possible to capture one of the "285" washers on video (for the sound) when going into final extract?
Thanks again!
Kevin
Kevin
the machines are very quite and extract there is hardly a noise.
the levels are programmable along with any and everything else.
Split is both hot and cold water open at the same time. there are automatic drains. When the drain is called to open it stays open as long as water is running thru it. When is slows to a trickle it closes and continues the formula. This is so a heavy load of blankets will drain just a well as a load of sheets. there is a drain programmed at the end of each operation in the formula. There are 2 8" drains on the machines so the machine dumps the water and in less than 30 seconds you are running the next operation.
Flushes are used to carryoff loose soil and keep stains from setting. blood ect. They also help cut down on detergent useage.
A carryover is usually used after a bleach to help get the most from the bleach and rinse it to the point it does not interfere with other operations in the formula. A extract can be programmed anywhere in the formula and lo extract is any speed that is programmed it to be.. I use 400 one extract in the foumula is enough as the volume of water is enough to rinse well alone. The levels can be programmed to the 1/10th of a inch of level.. there are 5 preset levels or you can use any level between. There is a starch level which is very low 6" low med and hi soak level and a float level. Which is very high and used for curtains and drapes. with only 2 or 3 rpm. As far as sound there is almost no sound from the washers themselves . About the only sound there is, Is when the air operated valves operate the drain or the fill valves. then there is the sound like air brakes on a large truck. The Edro at the old plant uses air operated valves too and sounds the same.
the machines are very quite and extract there is hardly a noise.
the levels are programmable along with any and everything else.
Split is both hot and cold water open at the same time. there are automatic drains. When the drain is called to open it stays open as long as water is running thru it. When is slows to a trickle it closes and continues the formula. This is so a heavy load of blankets will drain just a well as a load of sheets. there is a drain programmed at the end of each operation in the formula. There are 2 8" drains on the machines so the machine dumps the water and in less than 30 seconds you are running the next operation.
Flushes are used to carryoff loose soil and keep stains from setting. blood ect. They also help cut down on detergent useage.
A carryover is usually used after a bleach to help get the most from the bleach and rinse it to the point it does not interfere with other operations in the formula. A extract can be programmed anywhere in the formula and lo extract is any speed that is programmed it to be.. I use 400 one extract in the foumula is enough as the volume of water is enough to rinse well alone. The levels can be programmed to the 1/10th of a inch of level.. there are 5 preset levels or you can use any level between. There is a starch level which is very low 6" low med and hi soak level and a float level. Which is very high and used for curtains and drapes. with only 2 or 3 rpm. As far as sound there is almost no sound from the washers themselves . About the only sound there is, Is when the air operated valves operate the drain or the fill valves. then there is the sound like air brakes on a large truck. The Edro at the old plant uses air operated valves too and sounds the same.
Lee, this is all so wonderful, but my head is spinnin!!
These machines just blow my mind!!! I have GOT to get myself into a laundry plant to at least try working in one! I just LOVE those big washers!!!! I'm very likely headed to Clean '09 in June as well as taking that tour of the Milnor plant the day before!!! I might have to come down to Texas at some point!!
I found this on YouTube about RAMCO washers...
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supremewhirlpol
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2009
- Messages
- 2,134
clean 09?
Hey Pulsator,
Could you take some pictures of the clean 09 and the milnor plant and post them? Please with sugar on top?
Hey Pulsator,
Could you take some pictures of the clean 09 and the milnor plant and post them? Please with sugar on top?
revvinkevin
Well-known member
Wow Lee those pix are great, thanks! 100 sheets in the washer? That does not even look half full, wow!
I see the dryer has 4 (blades), how many does the washer have, 3 or 4?
Thanks again!
Kevin
P.S. Clean '09?? Is that a convention for comercial laundry / dry cleaning equipment? When is it and where?
I see the dryer has 4 (blades), how many does the washer have, 3 or 4?
Thanks again!
Kevin
P.S. Clean '09?? Is that a convention for comercial laundry / dry cleaning equipment? When is it and where?
revvinkevin
Well-known member
norfolksouthern
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- Joined
- Apr 1, 2009
- Messages
- 544
Size perspective?
I wonder, has anybody ever climbed into one of these things? But don't turn it on!
NorfolkSouthern
I wonder, has anybody ever climbed into one of these things? But don't turn it on!
NorfolkSouthern
launderess
Well-known member
"Clean"
Is the professional launderers, dry cleaners, etc and so forth mega CONVENTION! Lots of fun (so I've been told), and more important to those in the business a chance to see new products and equipment, while also attending classes/training in whatever is new and interesting.
For a laundry appliance buff, it can be a bit like a child let loose in a candy shop! *LOL* So many machines, so many choices, and one has so little space at home.
Usually all the domestic and international laundry equipment/suppliers are there, and yes chemcial suppliers as well (nice time to pick up samples and such of detergents and other professional laundry chemicals).
Is the professional launderers, dry cleaners, etc and so forth mega CONVENTION! Lots of fun (so I've been told), and more important to those in the business a chance to see new products and equipment, while also attending classes/training in whatever is new and interesting.
For a laundry appliance buff, it can be a bit like a child let loose in a candy shop! *LOL* So many machines, so many choices, and one has so little space at home.
Usually all the domestic and international laundry equipment/suppliers are there, and yes chemcial suppliers as well (nice time to pick up samples and such of detergents and other professional laundry chemicals).
How many vanes does the washer tub have? 6? I have got to get my hands on a Milnor!
<object width=640 height=505><param name=movie value=></param><param name=allowFullScreen value=true></param><param name=allowscriptaccess value=always></param><embed src= type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowscriptaccess=always allowfullscreen=true width=640 height=505></embed></object>
laundrynut
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 7, 2009
- Messages
- 45
Question for laundry managers
I've noticed that the tags on my white cotton towels (Martex brand) and bed linens suggest washing in "warm water & no bleach." Of course, that's just a "suggestion." What would your wash formula be for these types of items? Also, built or non-built detergents, pH levels, etc. I'm thinking more along the lines of a small, B&B type OPL with light soiling and not a hospital. Any and all input greatly appreciated.
I've noticed that the tags on my white cotton towels (Martex brand) and bed linens suggest washing in "warm water & no bleach." Of course, that's just a "suggestion." What would your wash formula be for these types of items? Also, built or non-built detergents, pH levels, etc. I'm thinking more along the lines of a small, B&B type OPL with light soiling and not a hospital. Any and all input greatly appreciated.
all depends on a Great number of factors
Soil content one night use or 2 or 3 night only changed on check out. ect
The water temperature.
The type of washer used
The type of finishing done.Tumble dry or Flatwork ironed
The color content
The water hardness or if there is a softener
If color safe bleach is used or not.
Load size
Type of supplies to be used liquid or dry expensive or bargain rate
Are items to just be clean and acceptable or top quality
Turn around time needed for equiptment a factor or not
Is machine to be properly loaded or heavy loaded
Are the dryers gas, steam or electric all require different ph to keep yellowing to a min.
If flatwork ironer is used is it gas , steam , electric or thermal oil If gas is it natural gas or propane.
These are just a few factors that a good laundry manager must consider before every setting up a formula for any loads.
Soil content one night use or 2 or 3 night only changed on check out. ect
The water temperature.
The type of washer used
The type of finishing done.Tumble dry or Flatwork ironed
The color content
The water hardness or if there is a softener
If color safe bleach is used or not.
Load size
Type of supplies to be used liquid or dry expensive or bargain rate
Are items to just be clean and acceptable or top quality
Turn around time needed for equiptment a factor or not
Is machine to be properly loaded or heavy loaded
Are the dryers gas, steam or electric all require different ph to keep yellowing to a min.
If flatwork ironer is used is it gas , steam , electric or thermal oil If gas is it natural gas or propane.
These are just a few factors that a good laundry manager must consider before every setting up a formula for any loads.
mysteryclock
Well-known member
It is such a dumb question....
...that I have to ask: How does one learn how to become a good laundry manager? Is there a formal set of coursework or is it an apprentice-type program? Sounds almost like you need a degree in Chemistry to really get a handle on the formulas!
...that I have to ask: How does one learn how to become a good laundry manager? Is there a formal set of coursework or is it an apprentice-type program? Sounds almost like you need a degree in Chemistry to really get a handle on the formulas!
laundrynut
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 7, 2009
- Messages
- 45
Wow, Sudsman, a lot of variables to consider...
Don’t know if this is enough information to go on, but see what you can come up with.
For this scenario, let’s assume we’re talking about 80% cotton bath towels, Martex brand, commercial grade, used 2 to 3 times between laundering.
Available water temp. 130-140 degrees.
18 lb. FL with 3 possible main wash times: 25, 21 or 13 mins. The main wash cycle can be manually repeated to add additional baths. 3 possible rinses, 2 mins. each, with the option of manually adding more.
Electric Tumbler. Current drying time on 6 full sets of bath linen is about 15 mins.
The color content is strictly white.
City water supply, not unusually hard, but no additional water softening.
Products available:
For this application, let’s assume dry bleach with 9% available chlorine.
Powdered detergent with a blend of alkalinity and detergency, intermediate quality ($32 for 50 lbs.) It’s not Ecolab. Moderate alkalinity; no heavy duty breaks. And a softener/neutralizer.
The machine will be operating with the normal recommended load. Gees, I don’t own enough linen to overload it.. LOL
Desired quality is bright white, fluffy, clean-smelling bath linen with a pH level that’s comfortable to the skin. Sterilization is not a necessity.
Turn-around time is not a factor.
No ironing. So the scorching issue is not a factor. They would come from the dryer, get folded and put on the shelf.
Not looking for an exact formula; just something to start with. Or, some guidelines for coming up with my own formula. I could always go to the supermarket and pick up a box of All-Temperature Cheer and some Snuggle, but then doing the laundry wouldn’t be any fun. Besides, this is all so much more interesting.
Don’t know if this is enough information to go on, but see what you can come up with.
For this scenario, let’s assume we’re talking about 80% cotton bath towels, Martex brand, commercial grade, used 2 to 3 times between laundering.
Available water temp. 130-140 degrees.
18 lb. FL with 3 possible main wash times: 25, 21 or 13 mins. The main wash cycle can be manually repeated to add additional baths. 3 possible rinses, 2 mins. each, with the option of manually adding more.
Electric Tumbler. Current drying time on 6 full sets of bath linen is about 15 mins.
The color content is strictly white.
City water supply, not unusually hard, but no additional water softening.
Products available:
For this application, let’s assume dry bleach with 9% available chlorine.
Powdered detergent with a blend of alkalinity and detergency, intermediate quality ($32 for 50 lbs.) It’s not Ecolab. Moderate alkalinity; no heavy duty breaks. And a softener/neutralizer.
The machine will be operating with the normal recommended load. Gees, I don’t own enough linen to overload it.. LOL
Desired quality is bright white, fluffy, clean-smelling bath linen with a pH level that’s comfortable to the skin. Sterilization is not a necessity.
Turn-around time is not a factor.
No ironing. So the scorching issue is not a factor. They would come from the dryer, get folded and put on the shelf.
Not looking for an exact formula; just something to start with. Or, some guidelines for coming up with my own formula. I could always go to the supermarket and pick up a box of All-Temperature Cheer and some Snuggle, but then doing the laundry wouldn’t be any fun. Besides, this is all so much more interesting.
will try
First 32 .oo for a 50 lb box of commerical detergent is a very cheap detergent. Any main wash time more than 10 or 12 mins is a waste of time and money. And you carry a greater risk of graying. You are far better off with two shorter washes than one longer one.
the best that I can offer with out knowing much more
Pre Wash Warm 90 to 98 no hotter 6 min Hi level
Wash/Bleach Hot no hotter than 150 12 min lo level
Rinse Hot 2 mins Hi level
Rinse Warm 2 mins Hi level
Extract 1 min
Sour /Softner Warm or cold 5 min lo level
Final Extract 6 to 8 mins
Amount of detergent will vary greatly but a good starting point is 2 oz. for a commerical detergent..on such a small machine.
Bleach. no more than a teaspoon full would be more than ample.
softner and sour Depends on what type of sour you are using. but no more than 1/2 teaspoon would be needed in that size machine. If heavy alkali maybe 3/4 Dry Fab soft no more than 1/2 teaspoon if liquid 1/2 oz (one tablespoon is plenty.
There a lot of variables be careful. on the detergent use, use the full 2 oz on the prewash then 1 oz in with the bleach. If there is a lot of suds on the main wash dont use the one oz of detergent the next time. Just on the prewash. just use enough to give a good suds on the main wash but not more than enough that will rinse out in the 1st rinse.
First 32 .oo for a 50 lb box of commerical detergent is a very cheap detergent. Any main wash time more than 10 or 12 mins is a waste of time and money. And you carry a greater risk of graying. You are far better off with two shorter washes than one longer one.
the best that I can offer with out knowing much more
Pre Wash Warm 90 to 98 no hotter 6 min Hi level
Wash/Bleach Hot no hotter than 150 12 min lo level
Rinse Hot 2 mins Hi level
Rinse Warm 2 mins Hi level
Extract 1 min
Sour /Softner Warm or cold 5 min lo level
Final Extract 6 to 8 mins
Amount of detergent will vary greatly but a good starting point is 2 oz. for a commerical detergent..on such a small machine.
Bleach. no more than a teaspoon full would be more than ample.
softner and sour Depends on what type of sour you are using. but no more than 1/2 teaspoon would be needed in that size machine. If heavy alkali maybe 3/4 Dry Fab soft no more than 1/2 teaspoon if liquid 1/2 oz (one tablespoon is plenty.
There a lot of variables be careful. on the detergent use, use the full 2 oz on the prewash then 1 oz in with the bleach. If there is a lot of suds on the main wash dont use the one oz of detergent the next time. Just on the prewash. just use enough to give a good suds on the main wash but not more than enough that will rinse out in the 1st rinse.
laundrynut
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 7, 2009
- Messages
- 45
thanks loads
Will start from there and see how it works. Much appreciate your taking time to read and respond... and so fast too.
Will start from there and see how it works. Much appreciate your taking time to read and respond... and so fast too.
Any main wash time more than 10 or 12 mins is a waste of tim
Surprised to read this, because extended wash cycle (approx. 1 hour just for wash) on my Miele gives great results. Could it be another difference between regular home-style detergents (Sears Ultra Plus powder in my case) and commercial systems? Like, home-style detergents contain anti-redeposition agents that commercial systems don't have or need?
Surprised to read this, because extended wash cycle (approx. 1 hour just for wash) on my Miele gives great results. Could it be another difference between regular home-style detergents (Sears Ultra Plus powder in my case) and commercial systems? Like, home-style detergents contain anti-redeposition agents that commercial systems don't have or need?
I think it may also have something to do with the fact that our clothes are dropped what like 8-10 inches in a home machine versus 3 or 4 feet in a commercial washer of such large size? The wash action seems much more aggressive in those large machines I bet the load just doesn't need as much time being picked up and dropped because they are being dropped such a large distance?
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