My version of a KitchenPool

[bigalsf]

<span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;">Hi everyone,  I thought I would share a project I've been working on that you all might find interesting.   </span>

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<span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;">I have always been a fan of the Hobart designed KitchenAid dishwashers, but like some have been bothered by the lack of a thermal hold washing sequence (as opposed to the static water heating KA is famous for), and the lack of a second rinse in their triple filtration models. I have thought for a while on how I could incorporate these attributes into the cycle sequence of a KitchenAid.</span>

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<span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;">While researching how this could be accomplished I discovered that Whirlpool has made several models over the years that have incorporated this thermal hold, and have similar wiring characteristics.   I decided to graft a Kenmore version of the Whirlpool DU9004 wiring harness, timer, and PB switch onto a KitchenAid KUDS21 chassis.  I know this sounds like evil-scientist heresy, but the results have been great!   I now have a dishwasher with the cleaning power of a KitchenAid and the cycling of a Whirlpool!    </span></span>

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<strong style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;">I am super pleased with the cleaning results. My normal wash cycle is Pre-Wash, Wash (with or without water heating), Rinse, Rinse (with or without water heating), and Dry.  If I select no-heat dry the timer rapid advances to off at the end of the last drain.  I have attached pictures of my creation. Hope you like it! </span></strong>   

 

[appnut]

Alan, I think I just has an orgasmic reaction.  FINALLY what a KitchenAid SHOULD have been before the 23 series.  This should have been incorporated into the 19 series, if not the 18 when they finally got rid of the damn 1 arm wonders so that these could become more than a DISH washer without having to think how you loaded the machine.  Now I'm gonna go smoke a cigar lol.

 

[bigalsf]

<span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms', geneva;">LOL Bob!! 

  Yeah, it's really nice to finally have a KitchenAid with these features.  It really cleans well, yet it's fairly quiet thanks to the mastic panels & the full insulation blankets.  Pretty much everything I throw at it gets clean.  </span>

 

<span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms', geneva;">I'm in KitchenAid heaven!  </span>

 

[toploader55]

Extra Credit to You Alan.

 

Great Idea. Would Love to do that to my KDS-18. It would probably wash the porcelain right off the tank. 

 

You'll really have to wonder "What is Dishwasher Safe ?" LOL

 

Beautiful Machine.  Very Handsome. Happy Washing.

 

[combo52]

The nearly perfect kitchen aid

Great job Alan this is something that I might do myself.

As I mentioned in the new GE dishwasher thread I recently took out my KUDSS 20 and put in a new GE dishwasher and it's very disappointing I miss the KitchenAid already. I like the loading in the overall convenience of using the KitchenAid far better than the GE dishwasher. The only thing I didn't like about the KitchenAid was the cycling the stinky filter in the very poor drying if you used energy saver air dry which is all I ever use.

So you've inspired me to do a KitchenAid again I'll try to do it 23 series so that I get the better pump without the filter I don't know what I can do about the drying but we can probably come up with something thanks again for sharing this Alan

 

[gansky1]

Excellent work, Alan.   What do you think of the performance so far?  I like the idea of target temps reached while circulating, the more the better.  The KA light soil cycle is pretty thorough and saves a couple of water fills so that could always be substituted for the normal cycle on average loads.  

 

I've been working on repairing/rebuilding some timers and adding relays to my Frigidaire Unimatics to keep the amperage out of the spin start-up out of the delicate, old timers.  So far, it works great and is easy enough to do.

 

John, couldn't you try a delay relay switch for the heater circuit, cycling the heater on-off every minute or so to at least warm the air coming into the tank but saving half or more of the energy?  I've been using the energy saver dry on the GE, but I just prop open the door for a while and the dishes dry pretty fast.   Of course,  there is no forced air system in the GE like the K.  I typically run it in the evening and then leave the door open overnight.

 

[jetcone]

what a cool idea

when I take my 22 out I might have to upgrade ! How do you get the whole harness and timer for a WP DU9004??

 

 

 

[jakeseacrest]

Incredible job!

 

[peteski50]

KitchenPool!

Wow thos is such a great update - nothing like washing the way you want to!

 

[chachp]

I'm moist!!!

<span style="font-family: verdana, geneva;">I'm sliding all over this chair with excitement!!  Sorry to be so graphic but this is exactly what so many have wanted.  Would you be willing to share more of the details?  I'd attempt this myself but would probably need more of the exact details of how you did this.</span>

 

[a440]

Very clever!

 

[stevet]

DETERGENT DISPENSER??

Alan,
I can see how you could convert your machine using the Whirlpool parts as the 23 series you started with would expectedly be similar to the WP's of the same vintage.
By then they were so similar, only the tanks were different.

But how did you get around the soap dispenser with the bimetals that needed either the motor current or the heating element current to activate them?

I have been toying with the idea to use my KDS-18 controls in my KDS-22 body so I can have the better pump and adding a drain pump but just have not gotten around to it.
But I still like the look of the 22 and the extra cycles and hate to break it up.

 

[barcoboy]

stevet, if you're going to do that, I think you should forget about adding the drain pump and figure out a way to tap into the wash pump and add an 18 drain solenoid, so you can keep the classic "snap" at the start and end of the drain. :-D

I'd still love to try swapping out a timer from one of these machines (an S18-23) and replace it with a Raspberry Pi and relay board. This way, you could program it to whatever cycle patterns you wanted, and experiment to your heart's content. You could even hook up a small speaker inside and playback the sound of the timer running, advancing, and rapid advancing!

The only problems are: 1) I don't have any such machines, other than my working KDS-58, and 2) I would hate to modify a fully working machine. It would have to be a machine that already had a dead timer-then I wouldn't feel so bad.

 

[bigalsf]

<span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms', geneva;">Thank you all for you kind comments.  I am having fun using this machine.  The whole project started originally with an ISE Classic Supreme 2 model I got from the Re Store where I volunteer.  I absolutely love that particular control panel, with the side swing door lock.  It is very streamlined & understated.  But again, only one rinse!  So I decided to start researching how I could incorporate a heated wash & additional heated rinse into this particular washing system.  After a few unsuccessful attempts with relays, infinite switches, outdoor light timers, etc.  I decided on a complete replacement of the control system.   As fate would have it a Kenmore dishwasher came into the Re Store and it was the sister model to Whirlpools DU9004…an all push-button model with rapid advance timer, mechanical delay timer, and cycle progression lights.  This was perfect!</span>

 

<span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms', geneva;">All of these parts easily mounted into the KA frame (I did not install the delay timer).  I did have to cut an additional channel into the door frame on the right side for a portion of the wiring harness, but that was not challenging.  The biggest wiring challenge was the light bank.  I had to rewire some of the lights in order for them to light up in the proper sequence.  Always fun to work with tweezers and very thin wire! 

 </span>

 

<span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms', geneva;">While I was working on the modifications for the ISE control panel I did some major damage to it (a Dremel can get such an attitude!)  Good thing I had a KA Superba 21 control panel lying around (who doesn’t?) & I just modified it instead (also changing the door handle back to the original KA style).   If you take a closer look at the interior shot you’ll see the heating element.  The Superba never had an exposed element like that, but the ISE models did (this machine truly has an identity crisis!)</span>

 

<span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms', geneva;">Steve, the detergent dispenser bi-metal is wired through the heating element on all Whirlpool dishwashers.  Since the ISE had a 750 watt element similar to Whirlpool’s the dispenser opens properly.  </span>

 

 

<span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms', geneva;">I really love the way it cleans.  The Whirlpool’s main wash section is 8 min long; with a normally soiled load I don’t have to use the heated wash; the heated second rinse is more than enough to ensure good drying without heat (I never use heat unless I’m in a hurry).  When the load is more heavily soiled I use the wash heat option, but still only four water changes.  Only when the load is super filthy do I use the Heavy Wash cycle.  That adds one additional fill.  Soak & Scrub (Pots/Pans on Whirlpool) has three automatic water heating periods (regardless of option selection).  The first wash, the main wash, and the final rinse are all heated to 145F.  On that cycle the machine will run almost 100 minutes.  I use only tablet and everything comes clean, even the bottom of the roaster pan!</span>

 

<span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms', geneva;">Steve, for your desire to use the 18 controls on the 22 you could use a timed relay switch to initiate the drain cycle.  You could wire the input trigger on the relay to the drain valve circuit.  The relay could then stop the motor, pause, start the motor in the reverse direction, and drain the machine.  When the drain valve circuit opens the relay would trigger again to return control of the motor to the timer.  It’s complicated, but it can work.</span>

 

 

 

<span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms', geneva;">I’ll post some pictures I took of the work in progress.  You’ll even be able to see a shot of the first incarnation with the ISE panel!   Thanks again eveyrone!</span>

 

[combo52]

Great job Alan

It's too bad you weren't working for KitchenAid back in the 80s or even before.

 

I too was always frustrated with the crazy cycling the KitchenAid chose Maytag dishwashers could've benefited by better cycled design also.

 

In any event Alan you may have inspired me to make a custom dishwasher I'm not going to keep this new GE dishwasher very long that's for sure LOL. I may start with a superb 23 series dishwasher other than adding the thermal holds and a 2nd rinse I would also like to figure out a way to add a better ventilation system so they dry better that's my only other big gripe with KitchenAids, The Whirlpool dishwasher is just dries so much better because they have vent high in the door and if you have a sufficiently hot final rinse they continue driving all night long even with the door closed as the moisture just continues to vent.

 

We may try to do a wash-in next summer, we I have space for 22 built-in dishwashers ruffed in that I need to install it would be fun if some of you guys like Alan, Steve, Nate or maybe Mike from Illinois or any other DW folks that might want to help come sometime next year and help installing and tweaking these dishwashers it should be fun.

 

John L.