Need Electrical Advice for Heavy Old Wall Sconce

[rp2813]

I picked up this wall sconce today at a small thrift store run by little old ladies, as witnessed by the masking tape price tag.  It weighs 11 pounds and I presume it's cast iron.  The fitting for the bulb is porcelain.

 

My first thought was to find a flame-shaped globe for it and use it on our front porch, as it would integrate well with the architectural style of our house, but then realized that by nature of its design it's probably not intended for outdoor use, as rain could seep under the globe and into the base to create problems.  I don't think there's any way to weather seal the area where the globe fastens onto the fitter.  My other option is to use it in our living room, which has an existing sconce that has never been to my liking and where this sconce would be architecturally compatible. 

 

Before I can do anything though, besides rewiring, I have to figure out how this thing mounts onto a wall.  See the next post for a shot of the mounting hardware.

 

[rp2813]

Rear View

It appears the rear canopy assembly threads onto a 3/8" or 1/2" rod.  I'm sure this fixture requires a special type of box due to its weight and mounting hardware.

 

Can anyone advise on what I need to look for, or if this will require professional installation?

 

The thing was cheap enough, so I'm willing to spend on a large flame shaped globe (found one on line that's 10" tall and is the correct size at the bottom to attach snugly to the 4" fitter) and if necessary, pay a guy to install it.

 

Any suggestions are welcome.

 

[fido]

I suppose it depends on what wall it needs to go on. The only way I can see is to have a length of threaded bar that goes right through the wall with a nut and big washer on the other side. This would mean disturbing the decoration in the next room if it is an internal wall. If it's an outside wall it might not be an option to have a stud and nut visible outside but it might be possible to counterbore and bury the nut end.

I can't tell from the photo how much thread length there is before the hole for the wires. You may have to fit a locknut to make sure the threaded bar does not get screwed in too far and damage the wires.

 

[coldspot]

Think there is a part missing my dads house had these. There should be a bar long flat and 2 holes in it keyholes that is. The bar would be screwed to the back of it and hook on to the wall box by 2 screws. A bead of glue could be added for more permanent type install. h

Look at lowes by the lights and look for a mounting bar I think they still make that part.

 

[coldspot]

Dont see one like his had but they look a lot like these.

http://www.grandbrass.com/catalog.cfm?category=Cross%20Bar&subcategory=All

 

[rp2813]

Thanks for the advice.  So basically it's a common mounting system except the threaded hole in the bar would have to be much larger than average.

 

I'll take a side view shot later today and post it here.

 

 

 

[travis]

Ralph,

 

Be careful how much weight you put on one of those mounting bars.  At the very least, be sure the electric box is well secured, or you will end up pulling it out.

 

My house, 1932, has threaded nipples to mount lights, but the electric boxes have cross bars mounted to studs or beams.

 

[rp2813]

More Pix

Travis, if I mount this in the living room, I'll have to install a box so I'll make sure it's well secured.  The sconce that's there now is using original wiring, which is a pair of wires coming out of a hole.  The several 1927 vintage sconces that were original to the living room were all mounted with screws into the wall rather than a box and they were all hot, with switches incorporated into candlestick risers for the bulb receptacles.  My dad was quick to yank all of them out except for one, and wired that one to a wall switch.

 

If there's a way to weather-proof it, like with a rubber or neoprene ring around the globe's base and the fitter, I'd prefer to mount this sconce at the front porch.   It would be easier to secure it there without making a big mess and having to patch plaster.

 

Here's a side shot:

 

[rp2813]

Here's a close-up of the mounting piece.  The rust is either an indicator that this fixture was used outdoors or stored somewhere damp.

 

[travis]

Ralph,

 

That threaded fitting is called a Hickey.  You should be able to buy a rubber U channel that would help keep water out.  Honestly, I think you won't get much in there without it.

 

Your father must have been following the path of my homes previous owner.  They removed 11 sconces in three rooms and badly plastered over the wires and the boxes.  I just dug back into them and reconnected the switch.

 

I think they sell a mounting bar at Lowes that allows a 3/8" nipple to screw into it, if not, I probably have one I can send you.

 

[rp2813]

Thanks for the additional info, Travis.  It also appears that the canopy can be positioned further back in order to be flush with the wall.  

 

Would I be correct in assuming that the entire fixture would spin onto the threaded rod, the canopy slid back flush to the wall, and then tightened with the set screw (I think the screw is barely visible in reply #7)?

 

I'll check at Lowe's for a 3/8" threaded mounting bar.  I hope it's a package deal with a section of "all thread" rod and a nut, but if not I'm sure I could scrounge up those two items. 

 

Thanks for the further info on outdoor use.  I'll look for some U channel, but I won't sweat it if I don't find any.  Upon further inspection, the base that holds the globe is somewhat rusty, so it's looking more and more like this fixture was used outdoors.

 

 

 

[travis]

The threaded mounting bar is in the lamp part area.  It's where all the chain and pulls for the ceiling fans are.  You're correct, you just thread the fixture on the rod.  That's why the hickey allows the wiring to come out the side.

 

I learned a lot about vintage lighting hanging 12 sconces and four ceiling fixtures.

 

[fido]

Interesting. I've never seen anything like that nut it sounds from the other replies that they are (or were) quite popular on your side of the pond. We have various brass and wooden wall lights but I've never seen an iron one, apart from perhaps in a church or castle.

 

[fido]

Typo!

I meant but, not nut! I'm not allowed to edit my posts here.

 

[rp2813]

Phil, I'm surprised too that this type of mounting system has been used for so long here.  I have mostly seen it used with lightweight fixtures from the 1950's and later, but with a smaller diameter threaded rod.

 

[frontaloadotmy]

Ralph

I could be way off on this, but it looks to me like it was designed to be used
to be an electric replacement fixture for a house that was originally plumbed for,
and had gas lighting.

 

[davetranter]

Water ingress

Looking at the photographs, I would say that this fitting has already seen outdoor use. In addition to fabricating a rubber seal, may I suggest drilling a small hole near the bottom at the back (out of sight) to allow any water which may gain access to drain?? This will also ensure that there is no build-up of pressure (if the seal is good) when it gets hot.

All best

Dave T

 

[perc-o-prince]

Thanks for putting a name on that part, Travis!

I knew about them and have used them, but never knew the proper name for them!

Supposedly, the hickeys that come in kits they sell at HD and Lowes require a box that can support 35-50#, depending on the kit, so I'd assume the hickey could support that. I've never used one for anything that heavy. We do have a crystal chandelier hanging from one in the entrance hall, but it's an older one that, IIRC, is heavier duty than the ones available now from the big stores.

The link below has a kit that has the rod and cross piece included, but they may not be the right size for what you need. They also sell the hollow threaded rod in long lengths and pre-cut nipple assortments.

Beautiful light, and be sure to show us what it looks like installed!!

Chuck

Loading…

www.lowes.com

 

[rp2813]

It crossed my mind to drill a small discreet hole for drainage.  I'll decide how to proceed once I buy a globe for it and see how tightly it fits.  While I've found the right size on line, I might be able to locate one in Berkeley at either Omega or Urban Ore.  It's a tough call on whether Omega would charge less than the on line site I found, and there's gas along with sales tax to factor in and compare with shipping charges.

 

Darrel, you may be onto something with the gas-to-electric conversion.  I can't imagine a fixture that was originally designed for electricity being so heavy, but who knows where this thing came from?  It seems overboard to have been used in a residential application.

 

Chuck, thanks for that Lowe's link.  I'm sure that's what Travis was talking about, and it's very similar to, but apparently more substantial (which is what I need) than the item Troy linked to further up.

 

Once I size up the existing box situation on the front porch I can go shopping.

 

If I'm successful with this, I'll post some pictures once the project is complete.