New Bosch D/W...it's a keeper!

[jamiel]

Just finished second small load in the new Bosch...bought a low-end one (plastic base Ascentia) at Sears because it was available in white. They were having an installation rebate promotion (which I need to send in...). A little confusion on the installation--we crossed paths with the Sears installer on Tuesday and missed connections, so rescheduled for Thursday. The installer picks up the unit the day of (or day before) the installation and brings it with him to the house. He was right on time within the window he gave...actually quite pleased with him (received paperwork from his company so can use them again).

It claims to be a 50 dB unit, and I can believe it. All you really hear is the tinkling of the water dancing around the interior.

The natural dry process (condensation on the sides of the tub) seems to actually work reasonably well. It is a little disconcerting to hear the drain pump cycle on a couple of times during the dry cycle (including for the last minute of the indicated drying time). The drain pump also cycles on for 30 seconds at the beginning of the cycle (I guess to drain off any last bits of water left from the loading). It is quite weird, though, to open the door, see condensation on the stainless door but have the dishes (at least crockery/glasses) dry.

Looking forward to trying the 30 minute express wash to see how that does...I can see how it would be useful (given how unobtrusive the cycle is) to wash up prep dishes while you're sitting down to dinner.

Going to have to learn the racking...there are several gauges of racks in multiple orientations in the top and bottom racks. Nice to see that the adjustable top rack (2 positions) in the top position accommodates all of our glasses as well as the french press which Brian uses.

 

[whirlpolf]

everything ok

hi Jamie,

all you tell us here sounds ok in a sense that it should be. After having repaired several dozens of these DWs, I can tell you all is ok.

Sound insulation: Done via some sound absorbant material stuffed around the side panels and so forth.
Some upper class models have that black rubber foam type stuff around the drain sump.

Drying process: Uses the internal heat within the tableware that had been created during the hot rinse (last rinse with rinsing aid). The fan exhaust is designed to pull out as much of the damp air as it can, the path of the air preferably going along the cooler side walls of the DW's interior cabinet (hence the condensation about your inner door panel). As drying time goes on, more and more condensation water will collect in the sump, so the drain pump is triggered from time to time (no special pattern with this, it is just timed to do so).

Rack loading patterns: Designed to have heavier items down in the lower rack, the upper one being adjustable for more or less tall glasses (see the instructions to reinsert the upper rack using the lower or higher roller heights). = plus/minus half of a hand width of height. Additionally the fold-down stem holders (click the stems of tall wine glasses into place to keep them from touching each other and to keep them at an angle in order to avoid these typical drying water pits in their lower foot area). The racks can be taken out entirely - individually or all together.

There are extra additional rack elements available for laboratory glasses (test tubes etc.) or for long carving knives and other longer objects (see your dealer for this). Just flipping up the wine glass stem holders will allow you to insert all kinds of mugs and stuff, the handles to be kept at 45° seen from above, this will store them in a way that most of the condensated water will flow out of their bottom portion down and away, leaving minimum space for drying or wiping spots.

Typical failures with this sort of DW: The water pocket and the drain sump with the flowmeter. Hint: Always keep the salt supply up to date. This will keep the (left-sided) filling tank = water pocket clean and void of any sensor-disturbing residue. Drain sump: Please keep your drain filter strainer and secondary fine particles filter as clean as you can. (Use some degreaser spray (Mr. Clean, Mr. Muscle, Amway Zoom, any of those double-strength Windex derivates along with some generic bottle brush: Keep wiping the filters as well as you can. Anything else will sooner or later impede the flow meter on top of the wash pump from registering a "flow ok = no air bubbles, no debris" signal to the main board PCB (note: the PCB hardly ever fails, there must be something else in the beginning).

Both of these hints are more than self-evident of course and who am I telling you this. But my experience shows: Even those! really having read the instructions do NOT know about anything of this at all. That is what I am earning my two breakfast rolls on (and some other expenses), not my fault. ;0)

 

[logixx]

This line of Bosch dishwashers doesn't have a salt reservoir. No Bosch dishwasher in the US has the water pocket.

 

[whirlpolf]

Thanks Alexander, that is some useful bit of information

I was not aware that Bosch's US models do not feature a water softener (how could I, having worked on German gunked-up models only).

Why is that? Isn't water softening substantial to having crystal-clear glasses?
Do you work for Bosch so that you could could inform us about these differing model features?
Tell me more, where are the differences?

The only thing I know from practical experience is that every line of machines has its typical faults, clogging up in shades of "in between gray and brownish" being one of the typical Bosch failures - trust me, I have seen the goo in them, you won't believe me (while not being sturdy enough doesn't seem to be a big issue for Bosch machines.) Apart from the blue or sometimes gray plastic lever arm on top of the water level membrane, the one that is supposed to trigger the microswitch = ALWAYS bent or to weak to trigger, a standard part to replace without any questions asked and without testing, before risking a kitchen flooding at the customer's we'd rather invest those some cents)

But why don't they have softeners in the US?

 

[frigilux]

In the states---at least in the upper midwest, where I live---many people who live in areas with hard water have whole-house water softeners. There has been a water softener in every house I've ever lived in. This explains why appliance manufacturers here don't build softeners into appliances.

 

[cornutt]

Whirlpolf, it's probably because in the U.S., people who have hard water tend to install whole-house water softeners.

We've had a Bosch for about a year. I guess ours is a higher-end model than the one Jamiel got, since it has self-cleaning filters. It sounds like the racking on ours is the same as what he describes. Interestingly, ours not only has heated dry on most cycles, but non-heated dry isn't a cycle option. Actually, the drying has been my only complaint so far. The dishwasher doesn't ventilate well and we usually have to pop the door open for a minute during the dry cycle and let the steam out.

 

[logixx]

Besides the frequently missing water softener (18 out of 52 currently offered models have one) and the water pocket, US Bosch dishwashers have different racks, weaker heating elements, use more water, don't have Zeolite drying and arn't as tighly wrapped in insulation and stainless steel as some European models are. Only the Thermador line has the 20-minute cycle with the water storage tank.

 

[retromania]

Water Softeners

I agree with David. Here in the US in areas of hard water a lot of folks have the whole house water softener. Here where I live (we talked about this before) the water is way soft to the point that I never used a lot of laundry detergent in the wash for fear it would froth too much and a lot of times select the extra rinse feature. That's the main reason I don't use some of the more popular name brand laundry detergents. Once while looking though some vintage Ladies Home Journal mags I would see ads for whole house water softeners. This was the first time I had ever heard of such an appliance. That's when I first learned that in some areas hard water is a big problem to the point that having an appliance to automatically soften the water is desirable. The down-side of the soft water where I live is you have this feeling in the shower that you can't get the soap rinsed off. Skin feels slimy! Main reason I use the old Dial gold deodorant soap. It rinses clean.

 

[cornutt]

Our water is in between. We used to have very hard water back when most of the city's water came from wells, but nowdays they mix it with water drawn from the Tennessee River which is naturally softened. We've talked about a softener but it's not high on the list. Because of the way our house is plumbed, if we decide to go with a softener, we'll have to put in two -- one for the kitchen and laundry, and one for the master bath.

 

[whirlpolf]

thanks for this information, gents

That was the point I was missing: I was not aware that quite a many households take care of hard water via some central softener unit. Especially helpful: The diagram supplied, thank you.

The only household I can think of (owning a central softener unit) was some neighbor from some other town where I used to live more than a decade ago. Back then I thought "they must be rich" but on the other hand I envied them secretly since washing my hair in this plaster milk we had and have here renders it strawy and dull anyway; their place was a dream for my hard to handle mane.

My sister lives in an entirely different part of Germany, the water over there is soft as rainwater, so whenever I want to give my hair a break I take a holiday of 2 weeks minimum at her place ;-)

A wise solution, those central softeners, you got me going to get more info on that (and not discarding the idea as some richy-bitchy chichi stuff).
That is really rare for me to change my opinion to a full 180 degrees (just some degrees occasionally, ok) - but you American guys have got me just there and it feels great, thank you ;-D
Joe

PS: And thanks from my splissed hair *lol*

 

[joe_in_philly]

We, along with all our neighbors, had a whole house softener where I grew up in Ohio, where the water was fairly hard. There was a separate, unsoftened cold water line that ran to the kitchen sink so that we wouldn't drink the softened water, use it for cooking, or for the ice maker. Since many water softeners replace the calcium and magnesium ions with sodium ions, softened water contains a small but measurable amount of sodium, depending on the water's hardness. While it is not bad for most people, if you are on a sodium restricted diet, every little bit counts.

Where I live now in Philadelphia, the water is considered medium hard, and I know of nobody with a whole house water softener.

 

[jamiel]

Yeah, we have Detroit water which is perfectly fine, however there is a softener installed for the whole house; as well as a RO filter for a kitchen spigot. No clue why the previous owner put them in (actually I've never changed the RO system in the 7 years have been here; there's a test button which continues to show that all is well with the system). I do need to buy some softener salt (waiting for a sale) and dump it in the hopper. I wouldn't be bothered otherwise (although years ago we did have a neighbor who was a Culligan man), but it seems a shame not to use it since it's installed. Besides, we've got huge salt mines under the city, so it's not like the salt travels very far

 

[jamiel]

Just a quick update---the Bosch D/W has been perfect. No problems whatever. On the topic of softeners--our water here in the US generally is far, far softer than in the EU (and if it's bad, people just have a whole-house softener). About a year after this I traveled to Luton, UK for a couple weeks of work and couldn't believe how miserably hard the water was. A six-month old electric kettle in the tea room was so encrusted w/lime I could not believe it. I've used an electric kettle here in the US for five years and it doesn't have a fraction of the scale.

 

[petek]

Detroit's water is sourced 60 miles north from Lake Huron at the same location as our water in Sarnia/Port Huron and it is piped downriver. It's an interesting read on how Flint's water problems started because they had been buying treated water wholesale from Detroit and then in a nutshell decided to build their own pipeline to the lake but during the process stopped using the Detroit source and in the meantime went back to using water from the Flint River, something like that anyways.

 

[jamiel]

yep, the water from Karengondi could have been perfectly safe, properly treated, but in their lust to save dimes (really the chemicals to treat pH are cheap) they poisoned a generation in Flint.

 

[henene4]

Nice to hear it's still going

The plastic tub base machines over here were known to become leaky after a couple of years of use right along the seam.
There was a sealing kit that could be used to repair that, but the repair was bothersome and didn't always work out.
The estimated life span until that was anywhere from 8 to over 12 years of use.
Don't know if they revised something about that later on, but it was somewhat assumed that that was just the nature of SS and plastic not expanding the same with heat and the many hot/cold cycles working that seal away.

The current redesign of the plastic base machines with the new sump, the EcoSilenceDrive and the "new" sensor program/electronic package have yet to get to that magical 8 year mark, but from the diagrams don't have a seal there - at least not a user replaceable one.
But from what I looked at, the tub sits completely in the plastic bottom so all water just runs down anyway.
So they might have that advantage.

But unless yours develops said leak, the US version of this has very little to go wrong.

The EU versions had the water path design notorious to get clogged up which could lead to several issues if left unattended.
Since the US didn't get a water pocket for condensation drying (as they were hot fill designs), a lot of that got changed.

The PCBs on the US might be different, bit they were very reliable over here as long everything else was OK.
The pump is a typical capacitor/induction motor with a single speed and runs for ever like most of these do.
The heaters were actual solid metal heaters in a heat box and rarely go out - much less than the heater in the current pumps.
Though replacement was a nightmare for ANY part of the wash system since you basically always had to split tub and base for anything besides maybe a cap.

So this machine could give you another 8 years of service no problem if you are lucky!

Edit:

I just realized that by 2014, the Ascenta line was already switched over to the EcoSilenceDrive?
Didn't know that happened that long ago.

So yeah, yours should already have the newer tub design.

With the EcoSilenceDrive the heaters on the pumps tend to go out more often.
But the pump replacement is easy and relatively cheap![this post was last edited: 1/22/2022-19:30]