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Andrew

I know what you mean about the LG HE TL washers. I've watched videos on them and they do use more water and spin the water in both directions, which is kind of cool to watch. But I don't see it blooming the load of clothes as you described that you can see happening on 2x speed. That low water/concentrated detergent/blooming combination must be what gets rid of those stubborn stains, but the rinses? You would think they would use a little more water to get that detergent out, NO? My duet does not do high level rinses but uses the same amount of water as it does in the wash. I've always wished it would use a little more to rinse, but there are multiple rinses so I guess that gets it out. I always always use extra rinse which gives me three rinses with high spin between each rinse.
 
I've watched LG videos of full wash cycles (2+ hours) at 4x speed on my phone and the clothes do move around - but more in a chaotic fashion, rather than rolling over. I see it as more of an "active soak", while the Cabrio actually moves the clothes around and scrubs each item clean. Now... that Extra Rinse option should also include a spin cycle, I think. Other than that, I think these older Cabrios were pretty good washers.
 
From watching the difference between top load HE washers and front load HE washers it seems to be this: front load washers actually lift and drop the clothes through the water to clean them. They do that with no wear or abrasion to clothing and all and any lint that may be present is dropped through the holes in the tub and flushed away. A top load HE machine has to try and clean with a minimum amount of water also, it does this by moving the clothes with an agitator or impeller or something in between that actually grinds or wears against the clothing to move them, causing wear and linting. It does seem to clean the clothing as it does this. I do see the "blooming" effect, but the abrasion against the clothing is what is causing that. Which do YOU think is easier on your clothing and causes less linting?
 
I've never seen a FL washer that "lifts" clothes...they tumble on top of each other in the drum and clean by using friction as well. I saw no difference in wear and tear between the 2 types of machines. Only noticeable difference I saw was an increased amount of wear using a traditional TL washer.

Same thing for lint...actually my Kenmore 28102 did a much better job of getting rid of lint than the LG FL set I used. Even after using the dryer my stuff still had pet hair all over it.
 
Depends no the load size

it does lift/drop/splash if you do a load that, when loading the machine with dry dirty clothes, you fill it about 80% full - by the time the clothes are wet, they have a lot of room to lift drop......but on large loads where you end up with saturated clothes and the machine is half full while tumbling the clothes, they do end up not lifting and dropping as much
 
Tis true about how big a load you have and I have found no machine that gets completely rid of hair, one of the reasons I have a dog that doesn't shed. But as far as wear, an HE top load machine is MUCH harder on clothing than any front load machine.
 
Bruce, with all due respect, have you ever actually USED an HE TL? If not, you should before you state with certainty that they are harder on the clothes, and create more lint. I have owned and used just about every type of washer there is, wringer, twin tub, portable TL, traditional TL, old school FL, newer generation FL's and HE TL, both 1st and 2nd generations. They all have their strenghts and weaknesses. I appreciate that you worked in the commercial laundry business and have a great knowledge base from your experience. But you can't really discount the experiences that others have withtheir HE TL's, simply based upon watching several videos of them in action.

The choice of a washer is personal. If I had the room and the set up for a wringer, that would be my first choice. If I could find an old school FL that was in good condition that would be a close second to my Maytag HE TL. In my opinion they perform just about neck and neck. I've not had any issues with excessive wear on our clothing or lint. In that area it seems to perform equally with the LG FL that it replaces. But as far as actual cleaning, hands down the Maytag HE TL surpasses the LG FL.
I'm glad you are happy with you LG FL. Everyone should be happy with their daily driver. But please give those of us a break that like our HE TL's. We really do know the difference between our a** and and a hole in the ground about washers, why do you think we are on this site in the first place?
Eddie[this post was last edited: 2/23/2017-14:21]
 
Yep, as a matter of fact I used one about 15 years ago before they became popular and HATED it. It tangled everything up and when washing several pair of jeans they came out all twisted and tangled with streaks all over them. This machine was made in Korea and had the impeller like most of the ones today. I considered it a real POS and still do. It spun faster than anything I had ever seen since a Frigidaire Unimatic and tangled on about the same level too along with lots of linting and wear to the clothes. This one actually would use a decent amount of water too. It was a Daewoo. Little did I know that one day machines like this one would be all you could get. I threw that thing out in the first year. It was black plastic with a 2 part lid. Was all electronic too.[this post was last edited: 2/23/2017-11:53]
 
Then Bruce, you really need to try one of the newer 2nd gen HE TL's. I would absolutely agree with you about the 1st gen TL's, also I think that the Daewoo may be an unfair comparison to the newer Maytag and Whirlpool machines. The first HE TL's were not so hot. I know, I owned a Cabrio in 2010, and I thought it was a POS, in fact that Cabrio is why I even discovered AW.org. I was trying to find out why that machine just didn't seem to work the way it should have. So I guess it was a happy accident after all. Others may have a different take, and I'll respect them for their opinion.

And BTW, my Maytag HE TL uses more water than the LG did, but not nearly as much as a traditional TL. It's a happy medium in my estimation. Different strikes for different folks!

And I respect your choice too, it's just not mine.
Eddie
 
nothing is fool proof.....theres going to be pros and cons to anything that is built.....glitches and mistakes are a given in any development of a product...

Electrolux did pretty good with their introduction of the Fridgemore Fler, probably the only issue, which were the lever controlled dispensers...they corrected those with a solenoid activated setup....

Neptunes may have been a downfall for Maytag....but if that were 100% true, why are so many still in operations?

and while some people did have issues with their Calypso's....doesn't mean the ones I have are just as bad....my first set I bought brand new, it has been running fine since 2006...

To hold it against Ford's Model A, with any issue a vehicle may experience today is just mind blowing in that sort of thought....

I don't quite understand how things stick in peoples minds, without considering that improvements would be made......

was looking at a 2010 Ford Taurus......and someone mentioned to me, "didn't those have transmission problems?".......the second someone hears TAURUS, automatically the subject goes in that direction......yeah, those cars did have trans issues, WHEN THEY WERE FIRST BUILT way back in the 80's.....the audacity to think that improvements were not made since then is Ludacris....
 
You can't compare today's HE top-loaders to anything that called itself "HE" or had an impeller back in the 90's. Those machines, much like the small portable washers made by Haier like we had to use when we were in Australia last year. They can't even be considered the same type of machine. The "impellers" they use aren't designed in any capacity to roll or move the clothes around each other; instead they simply spin violently one direction, then reverse, twisting the load and spinning them around, which DOES cause damage and tangling of the fabrics. This isn't the greatest footage available but being out and about means going with the first hit when searching Youtube.



Properly designed true high-efficiency top loaders don't cause wear or damage to the clothing when loaded and used properly. There's no way that my machine in particular is harder on fabrics than an agitator machine, because the impeller's "vanes" are broad, rounded, soft plastic. The clothes basically just roll over the humps. An agitator, however, consists of vanes that are wide paddles with narrow spatula-like edges that are yanking back and forth, particularly with a full load. The newer Whirlpool VMW designed agitator washers are a bit gentler because the agitation is slower with a wider arc, rather than the Shredmore choppy action the old DDs had, but it's still rougher on fabrics than the BravosXL has ever been in the two years owning it. In fact, the VMW machine actually did pull an old towel nearly apart because of a small hole that got yanked and twisted by the agitator. The Bravos hasn't even so much as pulled a thread loose on any clothing so far.

As far as lint and sand/sediment removal, I'm not understanding where anyone gets that an HE top-loader is incapable of dealing with such. The basket and impeller in the Cabrio/Bravos are designed with holes in both that allow lint and dirt to fall down beneath the basket, and the sump and bottom of the outer tub are visibly designed to funnel heavier sediment down to the drain ports. After almost two years with this machine I removed the basket to check and see what it would look like, and found nothing. Not even fabric softener build up. No lint balls, no wads of hair, no coins or loose items, and no sand or dirt, even after washing numerous backpacks/gym bags that did have beach sand in them. All of this has been paired with deliberately avoiding running "Clean Washer" cycles, and simply washing all towel/whites loads with hot water, using quality detergent, and using very minimal fabric softener. Clearly they're doing something right.
 
Looks like they were mucking around in the above video, maybe there is a problem with the fill. There is clearly not enough water to allow that pair of jeans to get washed. These are regular impeller top loaders, not HE machines and they do fill water to the top of the basket usually. As long as clothes can move around, these washers work just fine. They are compact machines not designed for big, bulky loads.
 
Kind of related

I agree the 1st generation HE TL washers needed to evolve more and now they are better engineered than they were before, although I've heard a lot of people on here that LOVE the Calypso.

One thing that I FREQUENTLY see that admittedly kind of makes me paranoid is (not the way the machine functions) but the control boards of the machines, whether it be a FL or HE TL washer. Just yesterday, I was watching a bravos and maxima video on youtube, and on both of them the top comment was "stay away, control boards are garbage and will cost $300 to replace. I myself experienced this with my duet in 2007 when mine had to be replaced, but once it was replaced it has worked fine ever since.

Does anyone know if they have improved the control boards on these machines or do they still have a high failure rate (I'm talking LG, WP, Elux, all of them)

Thanks
 
Probably in all reality ANY washer at all that will let clothes get saturated with soapy water, soak and then have some sort of movement to clean the clothes would do at least an adequate job of it. So I can see that the top load HE machines do that. I just don't think they do it as well as a new front load machine does and by design alone, they really aren't as capable of doing it with the same amount of water as front load machines. One thing that anyone would have to admit, is that front load machines use much less water simply by design and have done so since they were invented. Top loaders were just never meant to wash with small amounts of water because of how the tub sits and it has taken massive amounts of electronic manipulation to do what they are doing now. I agree that agitator top loaders are probably harder on clothes than some of the impeller machines. Particularly the agitator HE machines using less water when agitating. As far as linting and sediment removal goes, front loaders again are top, the clothes are dropped constantly and any and all lint or sediment simply goes through the holes into the outer tub and is pumped out later. That is something that even the old Westinghouse machines proved years ago. Front load machines have ALWAYS been superior in that respect. There may always be top loaders, I don't know. But I do think that they will become less favorable as time goes on and restrictions become stricter.[this post was last edited: 2/24/2017-05:10]
 
Calypso Top Load Washers

Hi Glen, Yes they are nothing like other full size TL HE washers, there only performance down fall was washing large comforters, large winter coats, sleeping bags etc.

 

But in reality NO TL [ past or present ] washer ever built does a great job with these large items, for these items a LARGE FL [ 27" wide or larger ] washer is needed.

 

We have been getting a lot of the DD cabrio and MT Bravos in the shop lately and have been installing the new bearing-shaft and seal kits in them, and everyone that has been using them in the shop is quite impressed with the overall performance of these machines.

 

when one of our larger families in Georgetown 5 YO LG built KM FL washers bearings bit the dust she immediately ordered a SQ FL washer from us to replace and we could not get the SQ for about 10 days and the KM broke between Christmas and New years so I gave them a rebuilt Maytag Bravos to use. We finally installed the new SQ FL washer a few weeks ago and the house keeper did not want to let it go. She said that the clothing was much cleaner and better rinsed in the MT HE TL washer than in KM LG machine.

 

John
 
These TL's make my blood pressure go up!!

I guess I'm to old fashioned and prefer a front loader for a modern machine.  I don't see how these things can possibly clean.  "Roll over" ?  I watched the same article of clothing jiggle on the top of the load for 5 minutes, then the machine drained and spun out the load.  The wobbly basket,  jiggling ball of clothes, cup of water sprays. are not for me.  And almost 2 hours to wash a load of clothes?  That's right up there with the 4 ridiculous hours on some dishwashers.

 

On the positive side, your phone camera takes very nice videos!

 
 

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