New energy efficiency standards for washers and dishwashers announced

[qualin]

Wow... that's all I can say.

Next thing you know, Americans will be smuggling Canadian washing machines over the border....

There is already a grey market for Canadian toilets... and for that very reason.

Do you wash or do you lavage?

 

[mrsalvo]

Bed bugs for days!!!!

 

[tomturbomatic]

I would love to see ALL of these GDSOBs actually have to use the machines they are pushing down the public's throats. This is all such total bullshit. The damn Dept. of Energy is supposed to be focused on breaking our dependence on fossil based energy, but they are tied face down to the mattress by the f***ing carbon energy industries so instead of pushing solar and geothermal along with wind and tidal turbine energy, this bureaucracy is pushing these defeatest ideas. If I were Obama or Chu, I would not want my name associated with such stupidity.

I am so glad to be as old as I am so that I won't have to put up with this insanity for that much longer.

 

[seeitrun2006]

Smaller capacity-more loads to wash

Another thing that will happen is the capacity of washing machines will get smaller. A load will consist of 2-large bath towels versus 6~8 that I can wash in my 2007 Whirlpool Duet. King size sheets will have to wash one at a time versus washing both sheets and pillow cases in one load. This means doing more loads of laundry which means no energy savings!

As far as Diswashers goes I guess we'll have to throw in a roll papertowels to help dishwashers since there will be no water to wash the dishes.

If our goverment spent as much time on hunger, the homeless and creating jobs as they do trying to save energy no one would ever be hungry, everyone would have a place to live and most everyone would have a decent job.

Sorry for my RANT and RAVE!

 

[gansky1]

It's baffling to me why there is this race to the bottom.  It's hardly the government alone, the manufacturers (P&G is mentioned numerous times as well)  are the driving force behind the engineering and design of these machines and appear from the text of the DOE reports to be materially involved in the formation of  and cooperation with the new standards.   Much space in the report is given to explaining the technological development and dark magic used to reach these standards by manufacturers who are agreeing that it can be done.   Cooler washing temps in both clothes and dish washing operations among other mechanical feats  - the LG spray washing & rinsing, more food filters in dishwashers, etc. are being utilized to reach these standards.   Particularly interesting is the incorporation of the washer-cleaning cycles into the energy and resource standards.  Mold, mildew and odors are an obvious problem that they've gone from denying to embracing and attempting to solve with splashy cleaning programs and chemicals. In energy and resource use calculations will include provisions for running the "recommended" washer cleaning cycle once each month.  I haven't reached the life-span section of clothes washers, but for dishwashers the average life-span is roughly 15 years.  Uh huh. 

 

[firedome]

A lot of hot air and hoo ha commentary here on awo

regarding these standards. As a scientist I'd prefer to first see the research data on efficiency vs performance, and exactly how, in detail the efficiency will be acheived before making any judgement. What Combo52 says makes sense. Speculation and anecdotes are worthless.

 

[mark_wpduet]

Am I correct in that the manufacturers don't have to create machines to the Energystar standards, but that they do it for the tax credits?

 

[tomturbomatic]

Well. firedome, here is something you can take to the bank. Since the first Bendix Automatic Home Laundry ad in the late 30s on through all of the ads for automatic washers in the 50s, one of the delineated steps that the machine performed was "Cleans itself" right before "shuts itself off." This was a BFD because of all of the work necessary to properly clean, rinse & dry a conventional washer after use. It is only since the DOE & EPA got involved in laundry that machines have become growth chambers for exotic forms of flora through spreading the gospel of cold water laundering, effing with the formulas of detergents and designing machines that don't use sufficient water to carry off the soil from interior surfaces. All of the above about clothes washers applies to dishwashers. Members here with dishwashers produced before the lies & corruption that have taken hold do not have the need for dishwasher cleaners if they can still find phosphated detergents, nor do they need to either prewash or count on a cycle that takes several hours to produce clean dishes. No classic front loader in anyone's collection needs a cleaning cycle when used with proper detergents and the water temperatures the Lord intended for washing clothes. Textiles have not changed, YET. They still absorb a certain amount of water. They still need a certain concentration of detergent in the wash solution to wash soil out of the fibers AND THEY STILL NEED TO HAVE THAT DETERGENT SOLUTION RINSED OUT OF THE FIBERS. It is possible to do this with less water via very good extraction between increased low water level rinses, but nothing has changed the physical or chemical properties of the textiles we are laundering to make them need less rinsing.

 

[mysteryclock]

Let me take a step back and play Devil's Advocate here with a question - how do these NEW standards compare with the existing UK/EU requirements and ratings? Is the US "leading" here in terms of low energy and water use still catching up (but not there yet?)

If we're not way out in front then I have a problem with the dire assessments of US machines future performance. Isn't it the common wisdom that most current EU machines will perform better than most US FLs, both in wash and rinse performance as well as energy use? If these same machines are ahead of us on lower water and energy use, then how is that possible, logically??

 

[jerrod6]

Mark check this out - Tax incentives

Here is a link to some information about tax incentives.  I don't know if it still applies but I would not be surprised if they do.

http://energytaxincentives.org/builders/appliances.php

 

[mrb627]

The PLAGUE

will soon be upon us. Disease and sickness abounds.

And ground zero will be a washing machine in the deep South where the operator thought that smell was normal.

Malcolm

 

[rapunzel]

'A lot of hot air and hoo ha commentary here on awo'

Not really firedome. Modern science is very much about profit, business and politics and 'objectivity' in science is moot. Just because it wears a lab coat doesn't mean it is interested in truth, the greater good or what is right.

 

[mfduffy]

I'm not saying these standards are good or bad. However, it's worth noting that most of the TOL machines currently on the market from the major American and Korean manufacturers are already compliant. So, we won't actually see a huge decrease in water usage from what many are seeing in new machines today.

 

[jerrod6]

 I am using a FL machine and  according to its electronic control board read out it was made in Germany in 2000, even though I bought it in  the USA in 2002, so maybe many machines ARE all ready compliant.  I guess I don't even know what fill levels machines have in them today, but wasn't there a video posted of a woman in Atlanta that runs her machine through two wash cycles(One to wash and spit rinse, and the second for rinsing) for every load because the clothes don't get rinsed?   If the standards do not provide adequate rinsing consumers will just follow this woman and run two cycles for each load - saving water?

 

The article mentions that consumer groups where consulted...what groups are these and how do we join?

 

[washer111]

Ouch...

Once again, the US Government is flexing it's muscles to other countries - the EU may soon follow suit, but, I think the Euro's have more of a sense of practicality compared to Americans (no offence to AW.org members here), as in, they only force the stretching of machines as much as necessary to maintain decent performance - their countries, after all don't have the sort of pollution I see in NYC, San-Francisco, LA etc.

"We don't need that hippy green energy. We can save our Carbon Footprint, and have Fossil Fuels when you don't."
"Who needs well washed & rinsed dishes?"
Here's my question: Would steam dishwashers start becoming the norm in a few years time, since they must use less water and probably no detergent whatsoever? Oh wait, the protectionalist government here and in the US wouldn't allow them onto the market, since Finish, Tide, Cascade etc would go bust without people to buy their "precious" detergents..

 

[pierreandreply4]

Thats just great as i wash only in cold water

Well for me thats good news as i wash in cold water and my advice to anyone who will not went to use these machines better buy used refurbish second hand washing machines. and this is my only post

 

[chestermikeuk]

"the EU may soon follow suit,"

Sorry to break it to you but the EU started it as long back as the 90`s, manufacturers drastically reduced water consumption ( machines labelled RainWave etc)and the machines we end up with now have the best energy ratings coupled with best use of detergent, time & electricity...

It appears that the US practices when too far to quick with OTT reduction of water levels, if they had kept the levels to ours pre 90`s for starters then that would have been good, (still a lot less than the TL)...

I would say machines at the moment are probably the best they can be without something giving, the detergents work great, and the vast selection of machines do more than average job, the question would be the reliability of certain brands models etc.. but like anything you can always trade up for better!!

 

[washer111]

@chestermikeuk

Sorry. I'd think that the US was being quite drastic here. But, really, if I had all the choices in the world, I'd pick a EU brand or SpeedQueen - quality or super quiet, good washing...

It's funny though, Asko's BOL dishwashers in this country use around 14-18L of water on the "Normal" cycle, although the cycle they use for the standards test somehow skips a prewash (There is no mention of how to use that cycle).
So maybe, the EU mandated water/power use to a more reasonable point than what Obama is trying to do in the states...

In the case of dishwashers, manufacturers should come up with a "variable water usage" idea that lets the machine suit the fill level to the wash load and soil, to help reduce time taken. E.g. Light soils need only wash/2x rinse with less fill and water pressure to get them clean, where as heavy soils may need prewash, wash and 2x rinses.

 

[mfduffy]

One consumer group's take.

http://news.consumerreports.org/hom...dishwashers-will-save-consumers-billions.html

 

[Whirlypoolie]

Variable water levels in dishwashers? Why not?

@washer111

"In the case of dishwashers, manufacturers should come up with a "variable water usage" idea that lets the machine suit the fill level to the wash load and soil, to help reduce time taken. E.g. Light soils need only wash/2x rinse with less fill and water pressure to get them clean, where as heavy soils may need prewash, wash and 2x rinses."

Good idea, and why not? Clothes washers have had such cycles--and approriate water usage to go with them--for light, medium and heavy soiled loads for decades. So why haven't dishwasher manufacturers designed their machines to do the same to date? I know of none that do.

(If anyone makes a dishwasher that does this and is available now? I'd like to know about it.)