New Front Loader Quest

[mark_wpduet]

I feel like each year that goes by, they make them a little cheaper. If they changed the glass to plastic, who knows what other parts of the machine are now cheaper than previous generations. Some features and options might get better with new machines.

It's funny that my 2005 Duet is considered well built now, but back in 2005 it was considered cheaply made. I can remember being on forums, people talking about the cheap door handles they would often see broken when looking at display models. How we could be lucky to get 5 years out of them.

 

[jamiel]

They do the same thing the auto companies do; de-content over the years to improve profits.

 

[frigilux]

The young couple in the apartment behind me replaced a small tub, low end Maytag Dependable Care washer and a BOL Kenmore dryer—both were in rough shape—with this Whirlpool front-load pair about 3 months ago. Model 6620, I believe. Theirs aren’t on pedestals. The pair is touted as being ‘Closet Depth’, and fit well in our tight laundry space. The doors don’t hit the machines opposite them when fully open, but they come damn close.

Washer: I like the control layout; it has a nice array of cycles/options and real, not “with Oxi” sanitizing. The plastic glass in the door looks cheap and the suspension squeaks if the load isn’t well balanced during pre-spin balancing. Squeaking tends to go away once the spin is ramped up to speed. They are thrilled with it—their first front-loader.

He works at a local farm equipment manufacturer and she at a nursing home, so they change clothes frequently, especially during this pandemic. They’re washing everything except dark colors on Sanitize and using Tide Ultra Stain Release. Frankly, I’m washing everything but blacks in 150-degree water these days, as well. My clothes have been washed many times, so there’s no threat of colors running. But, I digress.

He actually does most of their laundry and is impressed with stain removal and how much water is extracted compared to the Maytag. He also likes the auto-dosing bulk detergent dispensing.

We’ll see how it does in the reliability department. I certainly don’t miss the top-loading lint filter on their old dryer, which always left lint dust on both our dryers (they’re right next to each other).[this post was last edited: 5/5/2020-22:00]

 

[agiflow3]

Yes Frigilux they are very good machines overall.

Other than the plastic door and it's sometimes forever to balance for spin routines it is a solid machine.

That's my experience with the 6620. For my first front load washer i wouldn't hesitate to do it again.

 

[sudsmaster]

Well I did a little more work on the Neptune heating problem. Since the heater no longer seems to be working, I decided to fix a long term problem: hot water inlet clogged with rust (part of the hot water plumbing is through old steel pipe).

Got that fixed, and while the washer was out of its cubby, removed rear access panel to see if I could see the heater or thermistor. No sign of them from the rear, so I'm thinking maybe they are in the front (it's been so long since I had the front panel off I can't remember).

Also checked the on-board diagnostics: error code 7, which is "Heater not heating"..

"Check heater and
sump thermistor for
continuity. Was
heater on with no
water fill?"

So once I locate the heater and thermistor location(s), I'll do that check. Might be pointless if the thermistor is also unobtainium, but we'll see. Outside possibility that a wire broke; I tend to doubt that. Didn't see any broken wires from the back.

Another thing: a few months ago I remember once starting a hot cycle but forgot to open the hot water valve on the wall. I suppose it's possible that the system tried to run the heater with no water in the sump (it should be smarter than that!) and that burn something out. I dunno. I don't recall a heating problem after that, though, although I also didn't check the diagnostic codes until now.

Meanwhile my water heater can get the initial hot water temp in the sump to about 120F, but that soon drops down over time. So I'd like to get that heater working again.

Stay tuned!

PS-Cleaning the hot water inlet screen fixed a very slow fill problem. One of these days I'll be replacing all the steel hot water lines with copper. When I win the lottery. LOL.

 

[sudsmaster]

Well at this point after considerable internet search, it looks like both the heater element and the thermistor are unavailable. So getting the heating to work again may lie with finding a broken wire, or perhaps a blown fuse. I'll have to work up to removing the front of the machine to see what's up in that regard.

Meanwhile it's working ok w/o the heater. But I do miss the higher temps.

 

[launderess]

Maytag Neptune Heating Element

Do youse mean this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Maytag-Nep...879620&hash=item2637566b99:g:WEYAAOSwaJFeefnj

Or this?

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[DADoES]

 
MAH8700 is a fake Neptune, sourced from Samsung.  DC47yadayada is a Samsung part number reference.

However, many frontloader take physically similar heater assemblies so perhaps something could substitute if the resistance/amperage/wattage is equivalent, and the existing thermistor is good and will fit into the bracket (or there's a sub for it).

 

[sudsmaster]

Yeah, mine is a MAH7500, the heating elements you found are for an MAH8700. I have no idea that they might fit the 7500, but I tend to doubt it. Looks like I'm gonna have to pull the front off the Neptune and do some more poking around.

The good news is that after I took a long hot shower in the late afternoon/early evening, I ran a load of bath towels, and low and behold the water heater is putting out 140F and the washer sump temp got up to 131F. But I'm sure that dropped down considerably through the wash cycle. Still, as long as I take a long shower before running the washer, I might be able to squeak by with the heater problem as is. Because it will only heat up to 130F anyway. LOL.

On another note, Lowe's website lied a little. It claimed the Samsung has a "reverse swing door". Nope. I went to the Samsung website and rang their help bot, and finally got a human response, and they said none of their washers have reversible doors, only their dryers.

That leaves Electrolux and GE. I'd be leery of going with GE. But both mfg websites say their washer door swing can be switched. Whether this needs and extra kit or whatever I don't know.

But I'm OK for now. I have some white T-shirts and towels that aren't getting destained in the Neptune, so I may fire up the Miele in the workshop (have to reconnect the hose from an outdoor faucet first - had disconnected it to be able to move some heavy equipment in there). If the Miele 1918 (170F) doesn't get the stains out, I don't know what would. Well, maybe an older Miele 1065 that cranks up to 200F might do it. Got one of those, too...

 

[wiskybill]

heating element

it's in the front

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[sudsmaster]

Thanks Bill!!!

That's the same part number for the Maytag (22003252).

I just ordered it!

Should be here in about a week!

Yay!

(I had forgotten that some Neptune 7500's were rebadged as Amanas)[this post was last edited: 5/9/2020-14:53]

 

[bajaespuma]

Coming to a decision, unhappily

I think I'm deciding between the GE and the Whirlpool but I'd so much prefer a SQ with a water heater (and I want the heater not only for Sanitation but also because I like having the option of a boil-wash thank you all very much), or an 220 v European Style Miele like the ones you can buy in Germany and Israel. Why oh why does the US buy drek? What was the deal with those short-lived Large Capacity Mieles that ran on 120v? Was there a problem with them because it seems like they came and then went quickly. I mean these:

 

[henene4]

They were verry expensive to make, verry expensive in retail, quality wise not up to standards.

 

[sudsmaster]

Big Miele...

I wondered why the big 120v Miele came and went so fast. It probably didn't support reversing the door swing which is why I lost interest in it anyway. To hear that the quality was lacking sort of softens the blow.

We'll see if the new heating element fixes what ails my Neptune. If not, I'd be down to choosing between the 627 Electrolux and a GE. Although I have figured a way to get the Neptune to do a hot wash without needing the heater to kick in (take a long hot shower just before running the hot load in the washer).

 

[toploader55]

I have the 4842 Miele.

I will now give it the kiss of death... 8 years later and it's fine. Alex (logixx) sent me the Tech Manual and after tweaking it to Water Plus, It's fine. The Original machine was a lemon after threatening a lawsuit and a call from mu attorney... they replaced it.

I wash maybe 4 loads a week in it. It has water heating and I use mostly the Whitest White cycle.

I used the Sanitize setting few times. Water heating is nice to have, but I use Persil Professional Powder and Rosalie's. I think I have used LCB a few times but with good detergent and water heating, LCB is a rare additive.

 

[appnut]

good detergent and water heating, LCB is a rare additive.

Eddie, I whole-heartedly agree.  I haven't had LCB around for adding to laundry since I got the Duet in 2011.  And my garments/linens last longer.  One of the reasons why I insist on a heater in a front loader.  

 

[henene4]

Pretty certain though that on many cycles these will engage the heater independently of temperature...

 

[launderess]

Miele 4XXX series was pretty much a disaster

First incarnation (4840) had all sorts of random issues. Detergent drawers popping open and refusing to remain shut. Internal leaking that would trigger WPS sensors shutting machine down. Even when fault was cleared machines often would not restart. Miele sales persons and techs were advising owners to "tip machine forward" to drain water. Yes, some 5'5 110 (or less) pound American housewife is going to manage that feat all be herself...

Overall the quality just wasn't there for 4840, especially when compared to the W3xxx series that came out at same time. Side by side comparison had many customers simply feeling the later was more substantial washer. And they were correct in many ways. For one the 4840 could only be loaded 3/4 full, while the 3XXX washers like Miele of old could have their drums loaded fully.

Miele came back with the 4845 which supposedly addressed many of the failings from previous models, but it was almost too little and too late.

Miele was competing with Whirlpool, Electrolux, LG and others in bringing uber sized front loaders to American market. Whirlpool did so with their Duet washers which cost considerably less than Miele's 4840 or 4845

Miele's other larger worry was that they made those uber washers just for mainly north American market. Sales were tried in Europe and proved disappointing as few households wanted such a large washing machine.

So for all the R&D and other efforts Miele put into their uber sized washer and dryer they needed substantial sales in North America to make go of things. That wasn't happening and they were losing money on units sold. Coupled with word getting out about poor reliability and service issues (like waiting several weeks for Miele to fix the things), they just weren't moving those huge washers.

As for the uber sized matching dryers, less said the better. Miele had nothing but problems and complaints (though not nearly as so bad as the washers), so in the end both of them had to go.

Only way for Miele to have made money on those units was to do something they just refuse; built a North American plant and stop importing entire built appliances.

In the end Miele split the difference; going back to the drawing board we now have the new W1 and Little Giant washers. Americans can chose one or the other depending upon their laundry needs.

Thing is Miele like Electrolux and a few others know very well how to build rock solid 18lb-20lb commercial type washing machines. They have them on offer all over Europe. Just like WP bought Bauknecht to get their mitts on some H-axis goodies.

 

[sudsmaster]

It took me a while to chase down the VOLUME specs on the W1 Miele washer: 2.3 cu ft. As opposed to the Little Giant at about 2.0 cu ft. Mostly Miele wants to talk about capacity in weight, which I suppose is more accurate but each parameter has its own pros and cons. For example, I would expect a knit synthetic sweater load will weigh less than a woven cotton load of same volume, since the knit fabric might not compress as much as the woven cotton. I guess.

I'm sure both are fine machines... but due to my laundry closet setup and the need to wash larger items I think I'm still gravitating either to the Elux or GE front loaders with their reversible washer drawers. Or, just stick with the damn Neptune. LOL.

 

[launderess]

Miele claimed 4.0 cubic foot capacity with Miele 4802 and 4842 (not 4845 one wrote in error with above post, sorry), but again it was deceiving. Since you couldn't load washer totally full what seems at first glance huge, really wasn't.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/2413584/new-miele-w4842

https://blog.yaleappliance.com/bid/83143/Miele-Exits-Front-Load-Laundry-and-the-Best-of-What-s-Left

https://us.mieleusa.com/MieleMedia/docs/operatinginstructions/Old-Archive/Residential/Washers/W4842_us.pdf