New Garbage Disposer

[sudsmaster]

There's always a trade-off between hardness and brittleness. Stainless steel is inherently tougher than regular steel, but softer. It can be hardened (as those who have stainless chef's knives know), but it becomes more brittle as well. The stamped steel swivel impellers can thrash around quite a bit and therefore are probably unsuited to a high degree of hardness, because they might shatter with all the impacts. A cast stainless impeller might not be any harder than a stamped one, depending on the alloy composition and heat treatment it received in manufacture. But since it might be "beefier", perhaps it could be harder without risk of shattering on expected impacts.

For what it's worth, the impellers in the old WK are stamped stainless, and appear not to be particularly hard (as their rounded edges indicate). The impellers in the Titan are cast stainless. Whether they are any harder (and therefore retain their sharpness longer) is unknown to me. There are scientific methods for measuring the hardness of metals. The trick in the case of these disposers would be getting the impellers out of the disposer so they could be inserted into the test machine. A cruder method could be scratch testing with scribes of various known hardness.

In any case, I think to maximize the useful lifetime of a disposer, one might want not to subject it to very hard or abrasive materials (like nut and shellfish shells) and use citrus peels and a disposer brush instead to maintain a clean grinding chamber. A periodic "purging" with a sink full of water will also help flush any debris down the drain. This may be especially true of disposers with stainless steel grinding chambers, which won't be corroded by lingering food residue, at least not nearly as much as designs with galvanized steel and/or cast iron grinding chambers might be.

I've read that running ice cubes down a disposer will help sharpen the cutting edges. I'm not sure why this would be. Ice is hard and can be expected to dull the sharp edge on metal - hence the need periodically to sharpen ice skate blades. After all, we don't sharpen our chef's knives by chopping ice with them...

 

[hoover1060]

I wonder...

The cheaper model Anaheim disposers have stamped hammers too, as does the ISE Badger.
Do you thing the difference in weight(stamped -vs- cast) has anything to do with performance? That is, does the weight of the hammer improve performance?

Old WK's had cast hammers too, but they stopped using those in the 60's sometime.

 

[tolivac]

Yes-the heavier swing hammers can improve performance and give a harder blow-same idea as heavier thicker blades in bush hog type mowers pulled br tractors.The thicker heavier blade give a harder blow to the grass and brush being cut.But then it takes a heavier load to deflect them-in the disposer-if the hammer is too heavy it may just push the food around rather than smashing into it-and against the shred ring.The idea of the swiveling blades and hammers is to try to get as much "stored energy" from the engine or motor as possible.
Ice-yes it certainly can dull blades of various sorts-esp blender and food processor blades.Note the blades used in many bar blenders-the edges can be quite dull and worn.and it was rumored at one time the Navy and others tried testing the hardness of icebergs by firing 5" deck gun shells at them-and yes the solid blocks of ice could cause the shells to richochet dangerously-even almost back at the gunners!If the ice can deflect an artillery shell-that is one hard solid substance!Now you can see why ice can dull or wear steel blades!I suppose the idea of "sharpening" disposer cutters with the ice is more of using the ice to abrade away food scum from the cutters-esp in reversing machines.When you use the ice in both directions of rotation-the cutters should be CLEANED-but not "sharpened"The ice simply rexposed the cutters from the scum.also the same idea of stone and rock cutting diamond saws-If you cut a metal bearing stone on a diamond blade(Metallic metoritesor ores)the diamond cutting edges become covered with the iron or metal-it sticks to the diamond.Now cut a special blade cleaning stone-this wears away the metal coating allowing the sharp diamond edges to cut again.I have a special abrasive blade cleaning stone with my diamond rock saw.On some you can use the stone while the saw is cutting.You use it when you notice the saw slowing down in the cut.

 

[hoover1060]

but is it supposed to be sharp?

I can remember as a very small child watching my mom use the disposal and her saying "stay back, there's knives in there"

The scanned page is from a 1968 ISE owners manual, and discusses the grind ring and such.
Back in 1968, ISE's grind ring was cast iron, as was the disk.

 

[sudsmaster]

Hmmm. Well, ISE seems to have changed its tune since then, because it touts its reversing motor design as helping the impellers last longer (even wear on both sides instead of just on one side).

Even then, I suppose that a worn impeller will allow greater clearance between itself and the grinding ring, and thus impair performance. Similarly for a worn grinding ring.

Whatever the reason, the Titan grinds stuff much faster than the old WK, and so far it hasn't given even a hint of jamming. I'm probably going to buy a second Titan to install in the patio kitchen (albeit with some electrical work needed to support the disposer installation). I might use an air switch.

 

[sudsmaster]

This discussion sort of reminds me of the conundrum of sharpening rotary lawn mower blades. As I understand it, they need to be sort of sharp. Not too sharp, or they will chip when they hit anything more substantial than a blade of Kentucky Bluegrass. But not too dull, or they will shred rather than cut the grass. You can tell the difference by looking at a freshly cut blade of grass. A properly sharpened blade will leave the blade with a relatively clean edge. A dull or improperly sharpened blade will leave it with a ragged, stringy edge. Of course, lawn purists swear by the older technology of slow speed reel type movers, which require quite sharp blades that scissor rather than chop the grass. This is why a reel mower is the only type you'll likely see on a good putting green.

 

[tolivac]

the ISE disposers in my small disposer collection that have cast shred rings-the lower most part of the ring the segments are quite sharp.The breaker bars on the ring above the sharp size slots are dull.These disposers have auto-reverse.The motor would reverse the direction of the flywheel rotation each time you started the motor.Wear as in disposers and in auto body shredders determines the size of the discharged particals.In both as the size slots and to some degree the hammers wear-the particals get larger.In a properly running auto shredder-the peices are about fist size.the hammers in the car shredder can weigh up to 800 pounds each(imagine the energy stored in that!)and the rotor rotates up to 900 RPM!The motor is 4000-6000Hp.Imagine THAT under your sink!Sadly the company that makes these is no longer in business.Other companies now support the existing shredders-hammers and sizing bars are the most common parts.
For the mower blades-last time I went to Agri-Supply my way-they carry a huge selection of blades to fit ANY mower.On most of the blades the edges are not really very sharp.Just stampted or forged to a wedge like edge.the Bush-hog type "Hammer blades"have rather dull edges-but you wouldn't want to have your foot or leg hit by one!They are up to several inches wide and half to 3/4 in thick-and "spring steel"And there is a nother class of rotary mower-again tractor drawn and powered-they may use them on the roadsides in your area.-that is the Flail mower.the deck has a shaft under it that has many small "J" shaped blades or "knives" as the flail mower makers call them.they are suspended from the shaft by a link or very short peice of chain.The shaft rotates are VERY high speed-up to 4000 RPM!The flails do a good job of cutting the grass and then shredding the cuttings.another variation of the flail mower has much larger and heavier cutters-they may weigh a few pounds each-for heavy brush clearing even small trees.The usual grass flail mower blade only weighs a few ounces.And the ones that Agri-supply has don't have very sharp edges either-just forged into a wedge on both sides so they can be flipped for wear -the rotor reversed in rotation.The flail mowers have a deck behind the tractor and one on each side of the tractor.Mows a roadside in one pass.If the other deck(s) arent needed they can be folded up on the side of the tractor.interesting machines.they are used out here.A belt drivetwo large belts-grey like Maytags drive the blade shaft from a Hydrualic motor.Pumps on the main tractor PTO and front engine PTO power the mowers motors and the lifts to raise lower them.

 

[hoover1060]

I wonder why

the horizontal motor disposer for the home never took off...I know one was made in the 50's, but by the end of that decade most all makers had settled on the vertical motor design invented by John Hammes in 1927.

 

[sudsmaster]

Did the horizontal motor feature a horizonatal grinding chamber?

 

[volsboy1]

I was wondering if anybody here has used one of these disposers?This is the strangest one I have ever seen.

 

[volsboy1]

Here is a Pic of the grind chamber.I have never seen one of these.

 

[hoover1060]

The horizontal motor models had a vertical chamber, with a strainer at the bottom. The motor shaft was at the bottom, working like a crank nut grinder would. I remember reading old Consumers reports from the 50's and seeing the pictures. I would think the concept was good, but for some reason the finished product was not.
Today a company named GARBEL makes a horizontal motor commercial disposer.

Volsboy - I have one of those Whirlpools, those were 70's models and installed by dropping the entire unit thru the sink drain, then attaching the mounting from underneath. This was a sort of variation on GE's 8000 rpm models.
These weren't that good. Look at the guts of that thing. Would you put chicken bones down that?

 

[sudsmaster]

Picked up a second Titan T-960 at Costco tonite. It will be going into the patio kitchen (once I run a switched power outlet under the sink).

 

[hoover1060]

very cool... at less than $100 a pop, those are a deal!

 

[tolivac]

Horizontal motor disposer-remember seeing two machines of this sort on a WW2 Battleship-the Mobile-she is docked in Mobile Alabama and you can go aboard her and explore!In a room off the galley is the waste disposal area.there are two rather large horizontal motor disposers-think they were 5-7hp each.the discharge of them just went outside the hull into the water.Bet the fish loved that!and chum for sharks.anyway they had a belt drive from the motor to the shredder unit-was a hammermill type affair with a large tray like hopper feeding it.Don't know if machines of this type are still made.I am trying to remember the brand of them.
The Westinghouse"thru the sink" disposer has a rather interesting rotating shredder-a large angled wedge like hammer-but no breaker bars on the shred ring.wonder how this would work.would seem the hammer would just push the food round and round the shred chamber.I am guessing the machine must have a Perm magnet or univesal motor.
Ah I saw it-wonder if the disposers on that battle ship were Garbell?will look it up!I would think the horizontal motor machines would be more expensive to build than vertical motored ones.

 

[hoover1060]

Whirlpool disposer

has a universal motor, its not as loud(nor as good) as the universal motor GE models.
The motor in the Whirlpool turns counter clockwise too...Note also how tall the shredder ring is, the RPMs keep the stuff flying high in the grind chamber!
The most unusual part of the Whirlpool is its splash guard, which is VERY heavy duty for such a small disposer...

 

[sudsmaster]

When I get a chance this weekend I'll see if I can snap some photos of the old Waste King and the new Titan interiors.

The thru-sink Whirlpool looks like the impeller is more of a cutter, and it looks like it's welded onto the grind disk.

If it's a universal motor then it must have brushes, right? Any idea what type of motor the old Waste King has?

 

[hoover1060]

Old Waste King has an induction motor, same type as ISE. 1725RPM.
The Titan has brushes too, but instead of a field coil its two magnets.

 

[luxflairguy]

By the Way!

Jeff! I was able to pick-up an ISE 777ss on'Bay for $200. New in the box. Want my Excel? Greg

 

[hoover1060]

actually...

yes...if you're just gonna toss it I would love to have it... sans any residual garbage though...

Congrats on the 777, that was a classic machine!